Tobias Harris Extension

[tooler]

I don't think this is such a hard concept to understand, so why does it make people so angry?

It's like buying a new car. To some people, the social evaluation of whether you got a "deal" or not is more important than the context surrounding the entire transaction.

To be fair, the way it relates to Tobias is whether Hennigan is a sucker who pays too much. But I don't think you can draw any conclusions (i.e. predict the Tobias contract) from the Gordon deal.

[Skin]

Orlando is paying extra to Ben Gordon this year in order to get a team option on the following year.

Sure, we probably could have signed him for less per year, but we would have had to give him more years. In the scenario, Orlando gets a shooter for one year on the bench while preserving 2015 salary flexibility. Meanwhile, Gordon gets his money up front and has the chance to earn another contract elsewhere.

I don't think this is such a hard concept to understand, so why does it make people so angry?

Never thought of it like that. Makes a lot of sense to me.

tiderulez.... change your mind yet?

[tiderulz]

Orlando is paying extra to Ben Gordon this year in order to get a team option on the following year.

Sure, we probably could have signed him for less per year, but we would have had to give him more years. In the scenario, Orlando gets a shooter for one year on the bench while preserving 2015 salary flexibility. Meanwhile, Gordon gets his money up front and has the chance to earn another contract elsewhere.

I don't think this is such a hard concept to understand, so why does it make people so angry?

Never thought of it like that. Makes a lot of sense to me.

tiderulez.... change your mind yet?

not really. Why do we "have" to give him any money? Willie Green is a 43% shooter over the past 4 seasons playing 18 mpg, and a professional on and off the court. If we are expecting more than that minutes wise for Gordon, then we have traded away all our young talent and are screwing the season, or we have multiple injuries, and are screwing the season.

Doesnt make me angry, i just dont view it as a great move and dont view everything Hennigan does with a golden touch like some people on here. Hennigan seems to have a great eye for talent regarding drafting, but we still have a team that has had the 2nd and 3rd worse records i believe, and we still have no idea what our #4 pick is supposed to be other than an energy player.

[Skin]

Orlando is paying extra to Ben Gordon this year in order to get a team option on the following year.

Sure, we probably could have signed him for less per year, but we would have had to give him more years. In the scenario, Orlando gets a shooter for one year on the bench while preserving 2015 salary flexibility. Meanwhile, Gordon gets his money up front and has the chance to earn another contract elsewhere.

I don't think this is such a hard concept to understand, so why does it make people so angry?

Never thought of it like that. Makes a lot of sense to me.

tiderulez.... change your mind yet?

not really. Why do we "have" to give him any money? Willie Green is a 43% shooter over the past 4 seasons playing 18 mpg, and a professional on and off the court. If we are expecting more than that minutes wise for Gordon, then we have traded away all our young talent and are screwing the season, or we have multiple injuries, and are screwing the season.

Doesnt make me angry, i just dont view it as a great move and dont view everything Hennigan does with a golden touch like some people on here. Hennigan seems to have a great eye for talent regarding drafting, but we still have a team that has had the 2nd and 3rd worse records i believe, and we still have no idea what our #4 pick is supposed to be other than an energy player.

Here's the luxury. We have both. We can play the hot hand.

Now you're complaining about not knowing who our #4 pick is supposed to be? Name me the player you wanted there that would've answered your own question.

This is how great Hennigan is. We're talking about Ben Gordon being his worst move and the signing doesn't hurt us now or later.

[drsd]

What I don't understand is why people are so upset about the 1 year deal that Ben Gordon got. Its not going to affect our cap nor is it coming from our personal bank accounts so why the fuss? People also don't realize that we have bunch of rookie contracts. We don't really have sizable veteran contracts to trade and Ben's contract can be used to match salaries if the opportunity arises. This is like a insurance policy that Rob acquired just in case, kind of like acquiring a living, breathing TPE. Either way, this is a Tobias Harris thread.

Gordon-B might have been able to get 2 to 2.5M from most any team. The only way Orlando could get him was to over-pay. In many ways Gordon-B's role is an on the court trainer and coach. Notably he is there for Oladipo to refine the art of playing combo-guard / undersized-SG. It is the off-the-court effect of Frye and Gordon-B, which we fans ave ZERO comprehension of, that causes some vets to earn.

[tooler]

Moving this from the speculation thread to avoid cluttering it up with Tobias talk.

I am extremely happy to read that while Vuc just got paid, Orlando and Harris are very far apart on $$$.

Shh.. don't tell anyone, but me too.

Just not sure where he fits on this team long-term with Aaron Gordon, Channing Frye, and Kyle O'Quinn. Trade Frye in 2 years and make him a small ball power forward? Leave Aaron as a backup the next 3 years?

Sorry if this has already been addressed. I might have missed it.

[Daniel Lee]

I don't think this is such a hard concept to understand, so why does it make people so angry?

It's like buying a new car. To some people, the social evaluation of whether you got a "deal" or not is more important than the context surrounding the entire transaction.

To be fair, the way it relates to Tobias is whether Hennigan is a sucker who pays too much. But I don't think you can draw any conclusions (i.e. predict the Tobias contract) from the Gordon deal.

Tobias would not make Hennigan look like a sucker that so foolish, Harris is just a talented player a future NBA All-Star.

[Neon1]

Statistically speaking, Tobias produces at 85% of what Vucevic does. 85% of the Vucevic's 4yr 54 million (13.5 per)dollar deal is 4yrs 45.9 million. (11.48per).

I know it doesn't work like this and is not this black and white, but hey, just food for thought as far as what is production based fair (statistically speaking).

[mojosodope]

Statistically speaking, Tobias produces at 85% of what Vucevic does. 85% of the Vucevic's 4yr 54 million (13.5 per)dollar deal is 4yrs 45.9 million. (11.48per).

I know it doesn't work like this and is not this black and white, but hey, just food for thought as far as what is production based fair (statistically speaking).

Interesting perspective but let me ask you this. Do you not think that Tobias playing at a more crowded position contributes to his production? Compared to Vuc who essentially is our only center for the past two years. There has essentially been no one else to fill in his production when he is not playing.

[tooler]

Do you not think that Tobias playing at a more crowded position contributes to his [lesser] production?

That's more reason to play hardball with him. This isn't merely an exercise to find his objective worth in a vacuum and pay that. If we have plenty of forwards, we can afford to start with lowball offers.

Here's the trick. Even though SF is crowded on our team, it's one of the hottest positions in the league right now. Someone is going to pay him big time if he puts up a strong season.

[Optimus_Steel]

One thing Denton said on the radio the other day is that Ben Gordon has been working with Tobias to help him his outside shot. Interesting nugget.

[mojosodope]

Do you not think that Tobias playing at a more crowded position contributes to his [lesser] production?

That's more reason to play hardball with him. This isn't merely an exercise to find his objective worth in a vacuum and pay that. If we have plenty of forwards, we can afford to start with lowball offers.

Here's the trick. Even though SF is crowded on our team, it's one of the hottest positions in the league right now. Someone is going to pay him big time if he puts up a strong season.

But he's really our best option, so he's almost got an equal reason to play hardball as well.

If we are actually trying to win this year, I think we are taking a sizable risk on not paying Harris now and it may come back to bite us.

[Driguez]

So um, Broussard said Tobes won't sign an extension and that Nike will give him an incentive if he goes to LA, NY or Chicago. Don't know what to make of it.

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[InFlames]

So um, Broussard said Tobes won't sign an extension and that Nike will give him an incentive if he goes to LA, NY or Chicago. Don't know what to make of it.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using RealGM Forums mobile app

He said that Tobias wouldn't sign one before 10/31.

[Driguez]

So um, Broussard said Tobes won't sign an extension and that Nike will give him an incentive if he goes to LA, NY or Chicago. Don't know what to make of it.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using RealGM Forums mobile app

He said that Tobias wouldn't sign one before 10/31.

Keep eye on Tobias Harris. Won't sign ext w/Orlando b4 10/31. Restricted FA next summer. Nike deal gives him upgrade if he in LA, NY or CHI

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[OrlandoNed]

Moving this from the speculation thread to avoid cluttering it up with Tobias talk.

I am extremely happy to read that while Vuc just got paid, Orlando and Harris are very far apart on $$$.

Shh.. don't tell anyone, but me too.

Just not sure where he fits on this team long-term with Aaron Gordon, Channing Frye, and Kyle O'Quinn. Trade Frye in 2 years and make him a small ball power forward? Leave Aaron as a backup the next 3 years?

Sorry if this has already been addressed. I might have missed it.

How can you not know where Harris fits? He's a scoring small forward. Harris is the only forward who we can depend on to get his own shot and score effectively. None of the guys you mentioned can do what Harris does for this team.

[Magixrok]

So um, Broussard said Tobes won't sign an extension and that Nike will give him an incentive if he goes to LA, NY or Chicago. Don't know what to make of it.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using RealGM Forums mobile app

He said that Tobias wouldn't sign one before 10/31.

Keep eye on Tobias Harris. Won't sign ext w/Orlando b4 10/31. Restricted FA next summer. Nike deal gives him upgrade if he in LA, NY or CHI

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using RealGM Forums mobile app

Tobes wants to be a star and get paid. This sucks. Why even bother giving guys like that a chance if they're just gonna bolt? **** you Tobes and **** you Nike.

[InFlames]

So um, Broussard said Tobes won't sign an extension and that Nike will give him an incentive if he goes to LA, NY or Chicago. Don't know what to make of it.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using RealGM Forums mobile app

He said that Tobias wouldn't sign one before 10/31.

Keep eye on Tobias Harris. Won't sign ext w/Orlando b4 10/31. Restricted FA next summer. Nike deal gives him upgrade if he in LA, NY or CHI

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using RealGM Forums mobile app

Oh I gotcha, because he would become restricted if he doesn't sign before 10/31.

[tiderulz]

He said that Tobias wouldn't sign one before 10/31.

Keep eye on Tobias Harris. Won't sign ext w/Orlando b4 10/31. Restricted FA next summer. Nike deal gives him upgrade if he in LA, NY or CHI

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using RealGM Forums mobile app

Tobes wants to be a star and get paid. This sucks. Why even bother giving guys like that a chance if they're just gonna bolt? **** you Tobes and **** you Nike.

sigh, random tweet you take at face value and turn on a player that has done nothing to warrant it. Not sure why i am surprised.

On different note, would you want a player on your team that doesnt want to be a star? the drive to be a star is how players improve.

[ChosenSavior]

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using RealGM Forums mobile app

Tobes wants to be a star and get paid. This sucks. Why even bother giving guys like that a chance if they're just gonna bolt? **** you Tobes and **** you Nike.

sigh, random tweet you take at face value and turn on a player that has done nothing to warrant it. Not sure why i am surprised.

On different note, would you want a player on your team that doesnt want to be a star? the drive to be a star is how players improve.

This.