The biggest reasons for the 0-4 Start and poor showings?

gumbyr24 · Post #41 » by **gumbyr24** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 6:55 pm

Whether we started 0-4, 1-3, 2-2 we are/were gonna be terrible this season.
W/L record again doesn't mean much this year. I believe this came from Henny's own mouth???
The people who are overly disappointed have unrealistic expectations this year...
I see numerous positives going on with this team, and I find it almost impossible to not be
excited with the direction this team is going in.
None of our young guys looks to be a bust..
With all of them looking to have above average potential.
We're in a better position then so many other teams right now

Post #42 » by **MagicMadness** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 7:27 pm

OrlandO wrote:It's crazy, we look like a team that's young, inexperienced and lacking in chemistry. Oh.....

Yep, that about sums it up. Even with Oladipo, I wouldn't be surprised if we were still 0-4.

We were a bottom-5 team last year, and brought in two very raw rookies while getting rid of our two best 'win now' vets - we really shouldn't expect them to win too many games. So I don't blame Vaughn, I don't blame anyone. We are who we (should have) thought we were. Play hard, develop the young guys - that's all the coaching staff should be focused on.

Honestly, I think part of the problem is that some of the same fans that were all-in on the rebuild after Howard left are now getting bored with the process. The Magic are trying to do it the right way, which I applaud. It takes time, but we appear to be headed in the right direction.

TreasureCoast · Post #43 » by **TreasureCoast** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 8:33 pm

eyriq wrote:Our core isn't as good as I thought (meaning Harris/Vucevic), our depth has been worse than I figured (O'Quinn hurt and Oladipo out doesn't help). Harris is my biggest disappointment, Harkless not making the rotation my second. I'm actually pleased with Vucevic though I've given up on Harris. Two rookies in the rotation also doesn't help with wins but I'm happy for their development. All in all I think the under on the Vegas line is looking pretty good right now.

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You've given up on Harris? Lol its been 4 games man geez

mojosodope · Post #44 » by **mojosodope** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 8:53 pm

eyriq wrote:Our core isn't as good as I thought (meaning Harris/Vucevic), our depth has been worse than I figured (O'Quinn hurt and Oladipo out doesn't help). Harris is my biggest disappointment, Harkless not making the rotation my second. I'm actually pleased with Vucevic though I've given up on Harris. Two rookies in the rotation also doesn't help with wins but I'm happy for their development. All in all I think the under on the Vegas line is looking pretty good right now.

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You hate Harris, so our "core" has probably been just as good as you thought, there's no way you would have expected more from Harris. Because even 4 games into the season with 2 of his worst games on the magic his statline reads something like 17.8 points & 7.5 rebounds while shooting 50% from 3.

But of course he's dissapointed you and you've given up on him.

Give me a break, you would have had to actually had to have given him a change to give up on him

BadWolf · Post #45 » by **BadWolf** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 9:14 pm

well i'm not native speaker
so how do you do that?
would have had had to have given

G-Heel · Post #46 » by **G-Heel** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 9:38 pm

Ain't that hard to understand.

1. We have no two-way players.
Offensively challenged: Payton, Aaron Gordon, Harkless
Defensively challenged: everyone else

2. We play no defense. Bulls scored 98 on us, everyone else scored over 100 on us. This is most important. How do you expect to win with a frontcourt of Vuc, Frye, and Harris is beyond me. They might be adequate man-to-man defender, but if your PF & C can't play help defense, then you will be in trouble.

3. Our starting PG is shooting 30% and less than 50% FT and getting blocked each time he's within 5 feet of the rim. It's hard to win with that.

4. Injury to Oladipo + KOQ. But lets be honest, they weren't going to help us win any of those 4 games.

5. Schedule. The 4 teams we played will probably be playoff teams.

If we can't beat 6ers tonight, then I guess it's another year of tanking.

Audi · Post #47 » by **Audi** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 9:43 pm

Maybe I'm the odd man here, but I watch and love this sport for it's entertainment value - and this is, by far, one of the more entertaining rosters we've had in years. We could do worse than last year and it would've been a better season in my opinion - Payton (and Gordon when getting minutes) has been so much fun to watch - and our most athletically-entertaining player hasn't even stepped on the court yet.

belly · Post #48 » by **belly** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 10:14 pm

G-Heel wrote:Ain't that hard to understand.

1. We have no two-way players.
Offensively challenged: Payton, Aaron Gordon, Harkless
Defensively challenged: everyone else

2. We play no defense. Bulls scored 98 on us, everyone else scored over 100 on us. This is most important. How do you expect to win with a frontcourt of Vuc, Frye, and Harris is beyond me. They might be adequate man-to-man defender, but if your PF & C can't play help defense, then you will be in trouble.

3. Our starting PG is shooting 30% and less than 50% FT and getting blocked each time he's within 5 feet of the rim. It's hard to win with that.

4. Injury to Oladipo + KOQ. But lets be honest, they weren't going to help us win any of those 4 games.

5. Schedule. The 4 teams we played will probably be playoff teams.

If we can't beat 6ers tonight, then I guess it's another year of tanking.

I chuckled. This is so perfect. Harsh, but perfect.

EDIT: "everyone else" :rofl:

Post #49 » by **eyriq** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 10:35 pm

tiderulz wrote:
eyriq wrote:Our core isn't as good as I thought (meaning Harris/Vucevic), our depth has been worse than I figured (O'Quinn hurt and Oladipo out doesn't help). Harris is my biggest disappointment, Harkless not making the rotation my second. I'm actually pleased with Vucevic though I've given up on Harris. Two rookies in the rotation also doesn't help with wins but I'm happy for their development. All in all I think the under on the Vegas line is looking pretty good right now.

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can i ask why? Why is Harris the biggest disappointment? I wont stand here and say that Harris is the golden child, but i truly want to understand it. I see Vuc make just as many mistakes as anyone else out there, but he seems to get a pass from everyone. And he was pretty bad last night, yet people want to harp on Harris. I dont here people mentioning all the Payton blocked shots/turnovers, Butler abusing our SG's, Frye a non-factor, etc. It all just seems to fall onto Harris for the reason anything goes bad with the team.

My expectations are that Vucevic/Harris/Oladipo anchor the team this year and get us 30 + wins. Vucevic looks like an all star. Harris though is off to a rough start, and meanwhile Aaron Gordon gets limited minutes and Harkless gets none. Frustration with losing is probably a big part of it for me but what little patience I had with Harris is gone. Logically we should stick with Harris at the 3 but it isn't something my heart is interested in.

T-DOT KEEZY · Post #50 » by **T-DOT KEEZY** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 10:38 pm

1) Not enough talent on the roster top to bottom.
2) Unproven coach
3) No bonafide superstar

Post #51 » by **eyriq** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 10:38 pm

GameOver25 wrote:
eyriq wrote:Our core isn't as good as I thought (meaning Harris/Vucevic), our depth has been worse than I figured (O'Quinn hurt and Oladipo out doesn't help). Harris is my biggest disappointment, Harkless not making the rotation my second. I'm actually pleased with Vucevic though I've given up on Harris. Two rookies in the rotation also doesn't help with wins but I'm happy for their development. All in all I think the under on the Vegas line is looking pretty good right now.

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You just want Tobias to fail anyways. Given up on him after 4 games?
Oh, he's "just a guy" to you.

I wouldn't say that evaluating his talent as that of an average starter is the same as wanting him to fail. Now granted, giving up on him after four games it is a bit irrational but wouldn't you agree that there are a lot of times that as fans we feel irrationally about certain players? Part of the fun maybe

T-DOT KEEZY · Post #52 » by **T-DOT KEEZY** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 10:47 pm

I will say it though I am just a "ball boy".

Tobias Harris is just a guy. Carmelo Anthony Lite Lite. Volume shooter/slasher, zero defense, and very limited basketball IQ.

He was owned multiple times by every guy he tried to guard.

Nemesis21 · Post #53 » by **Nemesis21** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 10:48 pm

T-DOT KEEZY wrote:1) Not enough talent on the roster top to bottom.
2) Unproven coach
3) No bonafide superstar

1) GTFO!
2) GTFO!
3) GTFO!

zerp · Post #54 » by **zerp** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 10:55 pm

1) injuries ( kyle and Dipo )
2) bad coach
3) we need a star at PF
4) GM bad decision.

T-DOT KEEZY · Post #55 » by **T-DOT KEEZY** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 11:13 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
T-DOT KEEZY wrote:1) Not enough talent on the roster top to bottom.
2) Unproven coach
3) No bonafide superstar

1) GTFO!
2) GTFO!
3) GTFO!

Are you serious dude? Ha. All three of those things are accurate

Nemesis21 · Post #56 » by **Nemesis21** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 11:15 pm

T-DOT KEEZY wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
T-DOT KEEZY wrote:1) Not enough talent on the roster top to bottom.
2) Unproven coach
3) No bonafide superstar

1) GTFO!
2) GTFO!
3) GTFO!

Are you serious dude? Ha. All three of those things are accurate

2 is the only accurate one. There is tons of talent on this team, they're all young at the moment. There a couple of superstars in the making on this team, they're all young at the moment.

magicman123 · Post #57 » by **magicman123** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 11:17 pm

easy, lack of talent and experience from the young players, mixed in with a below average coach

Last Guardian · Post #58 » by **Last Guardian** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 11:36 pm

zuppafly wrote:It really surprised me to see people on this board claiming we would be a near.500 team in the East this year.

We are not.
We are not that good, we have a rookie PG (although a star in the making, for sure), a 2nd year SG trying to lead the team and a nice Center, not yet a top one as some think. His defense is still average at best, but he compensates it by being miles better on offense.

We are a lottery team, and will be until we are lucky enough to draft a superstar or pile enough assets to make a splash in the offseason with a huge SnT and a couple of impact FA signings.

People around these boards (not just the Magic one, it's a general "issue") think their team is the only one trying to improve every year. If we are to win more games than last season that means some team will have to lose more games than last season. And for that to happen you can't expect to trade your starting and veteran PG+SG, draft a PG, give a 12M extension to your C and hope you improve by 10 wins in an Eastern Conference that has improved by a great margin.

Get your feet on the ground people, we're in this for a long ride until a big time opportunity (1st pick with a sure superstar or a big FA) happens.
Until then it's a patience game played by the GM and coach.

I predicted a 25 win season and I stand by it. Anything more than that is a pleasant surprise and I will enjoy it immensely.

Vuc is a top c. At what point do people realize how picky they are being. He is one of the best scoring bigs in the game, and he is the best or close to best rebounder in the league. His defense may be average....but the fact that it isnt bad at all and on top of how good he is elsewhere HAS to mean he is a top c. How can that just be a "nice" C.

And Lol to everyone saying dipo wouldn't have helped win these games. Do you even think before posting? He is one of our best scorers and perhaps our best defender....how could he not have helped? :banghead:

T-DOT KEEZY · Post #59 » by **T-DOT KEEZY** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 11:41 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
T-DOT KEEZY wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:

1) GTFO!
2) GTFO!
3) GTFO!

Are you serious dude? Ha. All three of those things are accurate

2 is the only accurate one. There is tons of talent on this team, they're all young at the moment. There a couple of superstars in the making on this team, they're all young at the moment.

OK.....so we agree on #2. That's a start.

We do have talent but I would re-assert that we "do not have ENOUGH talent" to go blow for blow with playoff caliber teams (w/out VO) and win. I enjoy watching us play.

We fight hard but at the end of the day like the other guy said we have a bunch of one way players. Heck when we play Ridnour we are playing 4 on 5. When we play Dedmon 4 on 5. Those guys are getting extended valuable minutes.... That means we DO NOT have enough talent.

We want to "follow the Spurs' team play model". I can dig it but the Spurs have not 1 but 3 bonafide stars and a 4th one emerging.

Nemesis21 · Post #60 » by **Nemesis21** » Wed Nov 5, 2014 11:54 pm

T-DOT KEEZY wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
T-DOT KEEZY wrote:

Are you serious dude? Ha. All three of those things are accurate

2 is the only accurate one. There is tons of talent on this team, they're all young at the moment. There a couple of superstars in the making on this team, they're all young at the moment.

OK.....so we agree on #2. That's a start.

We do have talent but I would re-assert that we "do not have ENOUGH talent" to go blow for blow with playoff caliber teams (w/out VO) and win. I enjoy watching us play.

We fight hard but at the end of the day like the other guy said we have a bunch of one way players. Heck when we play Ridnour we are playing 4 on 5. When we play Dedmon 4 on 5. Those guys are getting extended valuable minutes.... That means we DO NOT have enough talent.

We want to "follow the Spurs' team play model". I can dig it but the Spurs have not 1 but 3 bonafide stars and a 4th one emerging.

And we have 3 superstars in the making, Oladipo, Payton and A Gordon.