Agree or not.. Truth hurt..

[Magic_Time]

3 Facts about our team so far Post Otis Smith era..
1- Howard didn't want to stay, we had to trade him
2- Our new GM stated that he's gonna rebuild this team taking the draft route
3- We trade assets for picks and young up and coming good players

Ill be as short as possible, and maybe not..lol..

To become a contender, those are the different steps a team can take:
a- you need a superstar and 3 good players and a GREAT coach
b- you need 2 - 3 big stars and some crafty veteran role players and a GOOD coach
C- 4 -5 real good close allstars, team first players (they dont have to start together), 2-3 other solid players with a GREAT coach.
( I might missing anothher step)

Now, take a look at our team, so far we can say that our team has 3-4 real good close allstars team first players with another 3-4 good solid players BUT an OKAY coach. Having a coach like Pop and his staffs, especially their shooting coach, would make us a contender as soon as next year. It would be even a sure thing to make the playoff this year instead of doubting.
Well we dont have Pop, so it's irrelevant.

Here's what I think,
Our coach, is decent, well some will say he's mediocre, and since the it seems like our front office like him and want to stick by him, they gonna have to give him more if they want to see success.
IF THEY DON'T, THE TRUTH THAT HURTS IS "WE NOT GOING TO ANYWHERE".
why I said this..
Yes we gonna win some games, yes we might make the playoffs times and times again but we still NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
To take that next step, we gonna need to do one thing, and that one thing is on the GM to get that player, that game changing player or that GAME CHANGER for Vaugh to take that greater path to success.

Well, With the young talents that we have that I think are good for a real good coach to take them to the next level, we gonna need at least that sure an efficient 20 points plus, go to 2 way allstar talent franchise player. He doesnt have to be an MVp or a superstar.
For our team, that player should be a POWER FOWARD.

That game changer won't come to orlando via free agency if he wants to win now.
He might like our GM vision but not the coach. WE MIGHT HAVE TO OVER PAY to get him, but it will hurt us for the long run and we might not win anything.

So, how we suppose to get that game Changer?
Well, Henny be preaching building this team using the draft, and so far the best 3 players on our team are players that we traded for. Those players are VUC, HARRIS and FOURNIER.
The reason I don't add Dipo on this list it's because those guys been in the league for at least 3 years now, and they now starting to make their strides, a name for themselves. Although Oladipo is well known around the league more than those other guys, in my opinion due to his draft position, to me I'll start judging him and think of him as i do about the other guys on his 3rd season.
That game changer talent must be attain using next year draft.

Like manny of you, am against tanking. But like manny of you I want this team to become a contender not just a playoff team. Like manny of you I want a sure allstar 2 way easy 20 plus point player, but because of our coach who is not known around the league as a good one, a player like that won't come playing for us unless we have that star player already on the team which we don't have.

Well, the only option for us is to get that player from the draft, by trying to end at least with the 6th-7th worst record this year. To do that, we should win games MOSTLY (not only) against bad teams and try not to lose against them, and win 35 games by the end of the year... that should do...
Next year is a PF draft, and this season should be our last year of being bad to the path of greatness..
If we don't get that player with the coach we have, since the front office like vaugh,
THE TRUTH THAT HURTS IS THAT WE NOT GOING ANYWHERE, AGREE OR NOT..

[MellowRose]

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[Magic_Time]

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[Magic_Time]

I know i misspelled manny wrong and a few of other words, but I don't think anybody would have a problem understanding everything i just said..

[MellowRose]

Truly sorry. Don't want to ruin your thread, so I edited my post. You can do the same with yours, if you want.

Man, am I an ass.

[tiderulz]

you mention either getting a player in FA or drafting a player. I dont see the 3rd option of Henny trading for a player.

And, if this player is truly an all-star or game changer, you metion not wanting to overpay someone, but with max contract limits, all the really good players are going to demand a max contract anyways, so that is a moot point to me, going to have to pay it one way or the other. A good GM manages the financials to be able to do that.

[Go Magic]

I must admit, I had a very difficult time reading this. There's nothing wrong with the topic but if you're going to post a long, drawn out opinion like this, try to have it proof read first.
Proper English is important.

[TheChaser]

I actually enjoyed reading this. In short, I would love for us Jacque to go our separate ways. We do have SOME talent now, although not quite as much as some on this board would like to believe. I do think a change in coaching philosophy would go a long way in changing our teams losing culture.

[flying_mollusk]

I think we have to just be patient. We have the pieces. It's just going to take time for them to develop. Ill repeat what I said in another thread. Vic is 22, Harris is 22, Vuc is 24 and Fournier is 22. If we win 35 games with that core, that's a huge stride. That means we will be playoff contenders next year, and then can go up from there. What I think hurt us early on was Vic's injury. It really took away his offseason work and his ability to solidify chemistry with some of the guys. I think it will come.

As for the PF issue, I also think the plan is ultimately for Gordon to take over in 1-2 years from Frye. Notice how many 3s Gordon has been shooting? I think they want to develop him into the same mold as a stretch 4 that can play with Harris and, on defense, take the better player at the PF/SF spot. Teams are going to struggle like hell if their PF has to guard either Harris or Gordon while getting no advantage on the other end.

Look at it another way. Our schedule has been rough with a lot of road games. But we are nowhere close to some of the other lower level teams. Philly has a negative 16 point differential (!!), LA has a -8 point differential. Minnesota is -7. We are at -3.3 so far. That would put us somewhere around where Sacramento and New Orleans were last year. Those two teams are competing for playoffs in the west this year.

[Magic_Time]

Truly sorry. Don't want to ruin your thread, so I edited my post. You can do the same with yours, if you want.

Man, am I an ass.

man, u good.. At first anybody would take it in a negative way, but I think about it the other way. It shows that I have a long way getting my english down and this only will push me to get better at it.. no hard feelings bro.. gotta take the negatives or what seems like it and turn them to positives some times..

[silent1900]

I had no trouble understanding the post, though I do disagree with one part of it.

You mentioned having 4-5 very good players and a great coach as being a viable path to a title, and I think that outside of the Pistons many years back, that hasn't really held true.

As long as there is a salary cap and a max salary in place, I think the path to titles runs through acquiring 'super-max' guys.




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[Magic_Time]

I must admit, I had a very difficult time reading this. There's nothing wrong with the topic but if you're going to post a long, drawn out opinion like this, try to have it proof read first.
Proper English is important.

Ill try keeping things shorter and readable.. I feel like like i voice too much of my opinion that sometimes people cant keep track, and try too say too much at the same time.. things just come to me, while i be typing and i sometimes cant stop.. lol..

[ralphie9898]

I had no trouble understanding the post, though I do disagree with one part of it.

You mentioned having 4-5 very good players and a great coach as being a viable path to a title, and I think that outside of the Pistons many years back, that hasn't really held true.

As long as there is a salary cap and a max salary in place, I think the path to titles runs through acquiring 'super-max' guys.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

UH San Antonio has done it without those super-max guys.

[tiderulz]

I had no trouble understanding the post, though I do disagree with one part of it.

You mentioned having 4-5 very good players and a great coach as being a viable path to a title, and I think that outside of the Pistons many years back, that hasn't really held true.

As long as there is a salary cap and a max salary in place, I think the path to titles runs through acquiring 'super-max' guys.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

UH San Antonio has done it without those super-max guys.

well, similar to the Pistons with Billups/Wallace/Wallace, SA is more the exception than normal. they have a player that could have been playing on the max for years that has taken less money and you already see Kawhi wanting the max, so that will soon end.

[Magic_Time]

I think we have to just be patient. We have the pieces. It's just going to take time for them to develop. Ill repeat what I said in another thread. Vic is 22, Harris is 22, Vuc is 24 and Fournier is 22. If we win 35 games with that core, that's a huge stride. That means we will be playoff contenders next year, and then can go up from there. What I think hurt us early on was Vic's injury. It really took away his offseason work and his ability to solidify chemistry with some of the guys. I think it will come.

As for the PF issue, I also think the plan is ultimately for Gordon to take over in 1-2 years from Frye. Notice how many 3s Gordon has been shooting? I think they want to develop him into the same mold as a stretch 4 that can play with Harris and, on defense, take the better player at the PF/SF spot. Teams are going to struggle like hell if their PF has to guard either Harris or Gordon while getting no advantage on the other end.

Look at it another way. Our schedule has been rough with a lot of road games. But we are nowhere close to some of the other lower level teams. Philly has a negative 16 point differential (!!), LA has a -8 point differential. Minnesota is -7. We are at -3.3 so far. That would put us somewhere around where Sacramento and New Orleans were last year. Those two teams are competing for playoffs in the west this year.

I understand everything you just said. i know we not far from being good, the problem is that I like Gordon more as a SF than a PF.. Lemme open all of your eyes to something most of us if any have not pay attention to, for the past 3-4 years the last 4 teams standing in the west and east finals they all have one thing in common.. They all have a very good to great SFs.. Either a 2 way SF, or a defensive SF or a more advance offensive one.. However most of them were almost 2 way.. James, Durant, Leonard and P.George. On our team we wont stand a chance against them in the finals with Harris, thats why my hope is on Gordon and Harkless to stand a chance aginst those guys more defensively.. thats why i feel like we need a 2 way PF next to Vuc and Gordon, like that we can contend more year in and out..

[BadMofoPimp]

I would even go as far to say the Spurs won it last year without any superstar. They only had 4 Really good players and a bunch of role players. But, they had a Great Coach if not one of the best all time. A good coach does make that much of a difference.

[flying_mollusk]

I think we have to just be patient. We have the pieces. It's just going to take time for them to develop. Ill repeat what I said in another thread. Vic is 22, Harris is 22, Vuc is 24 and Fournier is 22. If we win 35 games with that core, that's a huge stride. That means we will be playoff contenders next year, and then can go up from there. What I think hurt us early on was Vic's injury. It really took away his offseason work and his ability to solidify chemistry with some of the guys. I think it will come.

As for the PF issue, I also think the plan is ultimately for Gordon to take over in 1-2 years from Frye. Notice how many 3s Gordon has been shooting? I think they want to develop him into the same mold as a stretch 4 that can play with Harris and, on defense, take the better player at the PF/SF spot. Teams are going to struggle like hell if their PF has to guard either Harris or Gordon while getting no advantage on the other end.

Look at it another way. Our schedule has been rough with a lot of road games. But we are nowhere close to some of the other lower level teams. Philly has a negative 16 point differential (!!), LA has a -8 point differential. Minnesota is -7. We are at -3.3 so far. That would put us somewhere around where Sacramento and New Orleans were last year. Those two teams are competing for playoffs in the west this year.

I understand everything you just said. i know we not far from being good, the problem is that I like Gordon more as a SF than a PF.. Lemme open all of your eyes to something most of us if any have not pay attention to, for the past 3-4 years the last 4 teams standing in the west and east finals they all have one thing in common.. They all have a very good to great SFs.. Either a 2 way SF, or a defensive SF or a more advance offensive one.. However most of them were almost 2 way.. James, Durant, Leonard and P.George. On our team we wont stand a chance against them in the finals with Harris, thats why my hope is on Gordon and Harkless to stand a chance aginst those guys more defensively.. thats why i feel like we need a 2 way PF next to Vuc and Gordon, like that we can contend more year in and out..

I don't think we should lock in on one specific aspect of championship teams and decide that's how it has to be. The Mavs had Marion/Butler as their SFs when they won. Keep in mind, Im saying we do have a defensive SF in Gordon. But he should be able to play with Harris in a dynamic set. Gordon can guard the Durant or Lebron, but then play stretch 4 on offense.

[BadWolf]

I had no trouble understanding the post, though I do disagree with one part of it.

You mentioned having 4-5 very good players and a great coach as being a viable path to a title, and I think that outside of the Pistons many years back, that hasn't really held true.

As long as there is a salary cap and a max salary in place, I think the path to titles runs through acquiring 'super-max' guys.




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You should add 2013 /14 Spurs. None of their guys was a superstar (Tim, Manufacturing, Tony are part their primes, in level or even below those Pistons guys) .

[Magic_Time]

I had no trouble understanding the post, though I do disagree with one part of it.

You mentioned having 4-5 very good players and a great coach as being a viable path to a title, and I think that outside of the Pistons many years back, that hasn't really held true.

As long as there is a salary cap and a max salary in place, I think the path to titles runs through acquiring 'super-max' guys.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Got you, I made it clear, 3-4 real good, close allstars team first players, with another 2-3 solid players and a great coach.. we only have a decent to mediocre coach and we have that 4 real good players and 3 solid players that mesh together, but they too young, and inexperience

[OrlDave]

I had no trouble understanding the post, though I do disagree with one part of it.

You mentioned having 4-5 very good players and a great coach as being a viable path to a title, and I think that outside of the Pistons many years back, that hasn't really held true.

As long as there is a salary cap and a max salary in place, I think the path to titles runs through acquiring 'super-max' guys.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

UH San Antonio has done it without those super-max guys.

well, similar to the Pistons with Billups/Wallace/Wallace, SA is more the exception than normal. they have a player that could have been playing on the max for years that has taken less money and you already see Kawhi wanting the max, so that will soon end.

Dallas was a one all-star team with a bunch of very good players (JKidd was still good, but not all-star level anymore at that point). LAL was a 2 all-star team with some very good players and the Magic that year was a one all-star team (technically Jameer was one, but he didn't even participate in our playoff run). Had we not missed that layup in game one we might be in that group.

We need one definitive guy, that much is clear. After that we can either get another main guy or several borderline guys (which is clearly the route we're taking). Our problem right now is we don't have that one guy. But we have some players who have the talent to get to that point. We need to be patient and see what develops (or doesn't). I'm in the camp of Aaron being that guy. He has all the physical tools, emotional maturity and work ethic to get there.