Best PF for this team???

[BadWolf]

any update on gordon?
Still in walking boot? any healing to that bone?
i saw a twitter? pick a week or so ago where he was in bed and in plaster.

[Last Guardian]

I agree about his offensive game needing to be cleaned up, but isn't he the youngest player in the league? I don't think we should knock his offensive game with so much conviction. It's hard to be a critic either way because he IS so young. I don't think he would have a harder time going against an athletic 3 guarding him because he is a big athletic 3 himself. He won't have as many issues being outsized as he would What he's not is a heavy based PF. Defensively, I love the thought of having him guard guys like Lebron, Durant, Kawhi more so than guys like Duncan, Aldridge, Griffin.... Maybe he can be the Dwight Howard of PFs? Dwight had a light base too. Sometimes he got handled by the big guys, but he could still get the lift to block shots.

I still lean on him developing his shot and staying at SF with the versatility to switch against certain PFs. KOQ is probably our best shot blocker, so I don't see AG having to play PF because he is our best option.

I must say though... the more I talk about AG at the 3, the less valuable I think Tobias is. Really strange considering how big of a fan I am of Tobe.

Oh, I am not knocking his offense. It is a lot better than it was advertised. At least for the first couple of seasons, I do think he'd be more successful at PF on offense. He could easily beat them off the dribble, and he would be able to hang around the paint more to get some hustle points.

And I agree about him guarding the star SFs absolutely. At those times you switch Tobias to guard the PF. That is kind of why I am intrigued about them playing together...they are interchangeable at both spots. You can call them super tweeners because they are actually effective at both positions.

[OrlandoNed]

What makes you convinced that he's a natural post player? I find myself not drinking that kool aid just yet.

Even if he gained weight, I think he would be a wing like Lebron was when he was heavier. I also would want him defending wings and stretch 4s... and not so much defending your traditional PFs.

From an offensive standpoint, while he does have nice handles, he doesn't really have a clean offensive game just yet. I think he would have a harder time with an athletic 3 guarding him. I think you put a slower 4 on him and he becomes a much bigger threat on offense going to the basket and also being able to pass after breaking the defense down, while also being able to spread the floor with his 3 point range. And he can do all that while being able to defend the position easily. The real power guys...like West or Randolph...I think he could still slow them down. AG just looks strong to me.

I would also say that he is probably our best rim protector from what I have seen. He doesn't block a ton but he does intimidate because of the freak athleticism...that is another reason to put him at the 4 so he can better help protect the rim.

I agree about his offensive game needing to be cleaned up, but isn't he the youngest player in the league? I don't think we should knock his offensive game with so much conviction. It's hard to be a critic either way because he IS so young. I don't think he would have a harder time going against an athletic 3 guarding him because he is a big athletic 3 himself. He won't have as many issues being outsized as he would What he's not is a heavy based PF. Defensively, I love the thought of having him guard guys like Lebron, Durant, Kawhi more so than guys like Duncan, Aldridge, Griffin.... Maybe he can be the Dwight Howard of PFs? Dwight had a light base too. Sometimes he got handled by the big guys, but he could still get the lift to block shots.

I still lean on him developing his shot and staying at SF with the versatility to switch against certain PFs. KOQ is probably our best shot blocker, so I don't see AG having to play PF because he is our best option.

I must say though... the more I talk about AG at the 3, the less valuable I think Tobias is. Really strange considering how big of a fan I am of Tobe.

Why can't Gordon develop his shot and be a PF? Gordon and Harris won't step on each others toes.

As I see it, if anything Gordon makes Harris more valuable. The best scorer we have is Harris and he's better on defense and offense vs SFs than PFs. That should make him a lock to be the SF. Can you imagine how bad our scoring would be with Payton, Oladipo and Gordon as our starting PG, SG and SF? That lineup has terrible balance and spacing when your best 2 scorers play PF and C. I believe Gordon is good enough to defend PFs AND SFs full time in the future. Gordon's future in our offense should have nothing to do with how we use him on defense.

It's annoying how some act that because Gordon can handle the ball means he isn't a PF, and therefore is a SF. Look at Shawn Marion with the Suns or Blake Griffin, they handled the ball and could shoot decently. The versatility of Gordon isn't being embraced enough. He can attack and defend on the perimeter and the paint. The positions on our team that lack versatility should define how the versatility of our forwards, Gordon and Harris, should complement it. Payton can't be anything but a PG, Oladipo (despite that he can be used as a PG) can't be (mostly) anything but a SG and Vucevic can't be anything but a C. Those 3 positions are unchanging and we know what the strengths of those 3 are. So if the guard positions are defense oriented and the C is offense oriented, for the sake of balance, shouldn't the SF be the more offensive oriented player in Harris and the PF be the more defensive oriented player in Gordon? Doesn't the future PG/SG/SF/PF/C lineup look much better as D/D/O/D/O than D/D/D/O/O?

How Gordon and Harris should be used together on defense should be predicated on which of the 2 opposing forwards is the bigger offensive threat. For example, if we play Durant or Melo who play mostly SF, Gordon is better off on them and Harris is better off on Ibaka or whoever is the PF of the Knicks. If we play Aldridge, Griffin or Dirk who are PFs, Gordon should be on them and Harris on Batum, Barnes, or Parsons. Offensively, Gordon should be either in the corner without the ball or in the high post with the ball while Harris works in the midrange where he does most of his damage by either handling it himself or receiving the ball from Payton, Oladipo, Gordon or Vuc.

Basically, Gordon and Harris don't hurt each others value to our team. To me, their future value comes from how they complement each other and how that flexible pairing complements the more inflexible skill sets of the rest of their core teammates.

[OrlandoNed]

And I agree about him guarding the star SFs absolutely. At those times you switch Tobias to guard the PF. That is kind of why I am intrigued about them playing together...they are interchangeable at both spots. You can call them super tweeners because they are actually effective at both positions.

I think the term "tweener" has been misused a lot. The term tweener gets confused a lot for versatile. A tweener is a negative term for a player like Derrick Williams or Anthony Bennett who is too slow for SFs and too small for PFs. Players that are versatile are players that can adequately play 2 or more positions on offense and defense, like Lebron or Durant for forwards and Kobe or George for SGs and SFs. Of course Gordon and Harris aren't on the level or project to be on the level of the players I just mentioned, its the same idea. They both bring something to the table at both SF and PF.

[Skin]

From an offensive standpoint, while he does have nice handles, he doesn't really have a clean offensive game just yet. I think he would have a harder time with an athletic 3 guarding him. I think you put a slower 4 on him and he becomes a much bigger threat on offense going to the basket and also being able to pass after breaking the defense down, while also being able to spread the floor with his 3 point range. And he can do all that while being able to defend the position easily. The real power guys...like West or Randolph...I think he could still slow them down. AG just looks strong to me.

I would also say that he is probably our best rim protector from what I have seen. He doesn't block a ton but he does intimidate because of the freak athleticism...that is another reason to put him at the 4 so he can better help protect the rim.

I agree about his offensive game needing to be cleaned up, but isn't he the youngest player in the league? I don't think we should knock his offensive game with so much conviction. It's hard to be a critic either way because he IS so young. I don't think he would have a harder time going against an athletic 3 guarding him because he is a big athletic 3 himself. He won't have as many issues being outsized as he would What he's not is a heavy based PF. Defensively, I love the thought of having him guard guys like Lebron, Durant, Kawhi more so than guys like Duncan, Aldridge, Griffin.... Maybe he can be the Dwight Howard of PFs? Dwight had a light base too. Sometimes he got handled by the big guys, but he could still get the lift to block shots.

I still lean on him developing his shot and staying at SF with the versatility to switch against certain PFs. KOQ is probably our best shot blocker, so I don't see AG having to play PF because he is our best option.

I must say though... the more I talk about AG at the 3, the less valuable I think Tobias is. Really strange considering how big of a fan I am of Tobe.

Why can't Gordon develop his shot and be a PF? Gordon and Harris won't step on each others toes.

As I see it, if anything Gordon makes Harris more valuable. The best scorer we have is Harris and he's better on defense and offense vs SFs than PFs. That should make him a lock to be the SF. Can you imagine how bad our scoring would be with Payton, Oladipo and Gordon as our starting PG, SG and SF? That lineup has terrible balance and spacing when your best 2 scorers play PF and C. I believe Gordon is good enough to defend PFs AND SFs full time in the future. Gordon's future in our offense should have nothing to do with how we use him on defense.

It's annoying how some act that because Gordon can handle the ball means he isn't a PF, and therefore is a SF. Look at Shawn Marion with the Suns or Blake Griffin, they handled the ball and could shoot decently. The versatility of Gordon isn't being embraced enough. He can attack and defend on the perimeter and the paint. The positions on our team that lack versatility should define how the versatility of our forwards, Gordon and Harris, should complement it. Payton can't be anything but a PG, Oladipo (despite that he can be used as a PG) can't be (mostly) anything but a SG and Vucevic can't be anything but a C. Those 3 positions are unchanging and we know what the strengths of those 3 are. So if the guard positions are defense oriented and the C is offense oriented, for the sake of balance, shouldn't the SF be the more offensive oriented player in Harris and the PF be the more defensive oriented player in Gordon? Doesn't the future PG/SG/SF/PF/C lineup look much better as D/D/O/D/O than D/D/D/O/O?

How Gordon and Harris should be used together on defense should be predicated on which of the 2 opposing forwards is the bigger offensive threat. For example, if we play Durant or Melo who play mostly SF, Gordon is better off on them and Harris is better off on Ibaka or whoever is the PF of the Knicks. If we play Aldridge, Griffin or Dirk who are PFs, Gordon should be on them and Harris on Batum, Barnes, or Parsons. Offensively, Gordon should be either in the corner without the ball or in the high post with the ball while Harris works in the midrange where he does most of his damage by either handling it himself or receiving the ball from Payton, Oladipo, Gordon or Vuc.

Basically, Gordon and Harris don't hurt each others value to our team. To me, their future value comes from how they complement each other and how that flexible pairing complements the more inflexible skill sets of the rest of their core teammates.

The whole thing about Gordon being a SF over a PF for me has to do with his body type....more specifically, his base. He can dominate the 3 spot with his combination of size, ball handling, explosion. I can't say the same for him at the 4. Unless he develops into a stretch 4 (which would be a terrible use of his natural talents, imo). It's not just about packing on weight. We saw what happened to Shawn Kemp. Even Lebron and Melo went on a diet. His body type is more along their type than typical 4s.

It's not about his shooting or ball handling for me. ...and not to be rude, but statements like this, "Can you imagine how bad our scoring would be with Payton, Oladipo and Gordon as our starting PG, SG and SF?" are the type of statements that annoy me because you're basing that on them being finished products.

[OrlandoNed]

I agree about his offensive game needing to be cleaned up, but isn't he the youngest player in the league? I don't think we should knock his offensive game with so much conviction. It's hard to be a critic either way because he IS so young. I don't think he would have a harder time going against an athletic 3 guarding him because he is a big athletic 3 himself. He won't have as many issues being outsized as he would What he's not is a heavy based PF. Defensively, I love the thought of having him guard guys like Lebron, Durant, Kawhi more so than guys like Duncan, Aldridge, Griffin.... Maybe he can be the Dwight Howard of PFs? Dwight had a light base too. Sometimes he got handled by the big guys, but he could still get the lift to block shots.

I still lean on him developing his shot and staying at SF with the versatility to switch against certain PFs. KOQ is probably our best shot blocker, so I don't see AG having to play PF because he is our best option.

I must say though... the more I talk about AG at the 3, the less valuable I think Tobias is. Really strange considering how big of a fan I am of Tobe.

Why can't Gordon develop his shot and be a PF? Gordon and Harris won't step on each others toes.

As I see it, if anything Gordon makes Harris more valuable. The best scorer we have is Harris and he's better on defense and offense vs SFs than PFs. That should make him a lock to be the SF. Can you imagine how bad our scoring would be with Payton, Oladipo and Gordon as our starting PG, SG and SF? That lineup has terrible balance and spacing when your best 2 scorers play PF and C. I believe Gordon is good enough to defend PFs AND SFs full time in the future. Gordon's future in our offense should have nothing to do with how we use him on defense.

It's annoying how some act that because Gordon can handle the ball means he isn't a PF, and therefore is a SF. Look at Shawn Marion with the Suns or Blake Griffin, they handled the ball and could shoot decently. The versatility of Gordon isn't being embraced enough. He can attack and defend on the perimeter and the paint. The positions on our team that lack versatility should define how the versatility of our forwards, Gordon and Harris, should complement it. Payton can't be anything but a PG, Oladipo (despite that he can be used as a PG) can't be (mostly) anything but a SG and Vucevic can't be anything but a C. Those 3 positions are unchanging and we know what the strengths of those 3 are. So if the guard positions are defense oriented and the C is offense oriented, for the sake of balance, shouldn't the SF be the more offensive oriented player in Harris and the PF be the more defensive oriented player in Gordon? Doesn't the future PG/SG/SF/PF/C lineup look much better as D/D/O/D/O than D/D/D/O/O?

How Gordon and Harris should be used together on defense should be predicated on which of the 2 opposing forwards is the bigger offensive threat. For example, if we play Durant or Melo who play mostly SF, Gordon is better off on them and Harris is better off on Ibaka or whoever is the PF of the Knicks. If we play Aldridge, Griffin or Dirk who are PFs, Gordon should be on them and Harris on Batum, Barnes, or Parsons. Offensively, Gordon should be either in the corner without the ball or in the high post with the ball while Harris works in the midrange where he does most of his damage by either handling it himself or receiving the ball from Payton, Oladipo, Gordon or Vuc.

Basically, Gordon and Harris don't hurt each others value to our team. To me, their future value comes from how they complement each other and how that flexible pairing complements the more inflexible skill sets of the rest of their core teammates.

The whole thing about Gordon being a SF over a PF for me has to do with his body type....more specifically, his base. He can dominate the 3 spot with his combination of size, ball handling, explosion. I can't say the same for him at the 4. Unless he develops into a stretch 4 (which would be a terrible use of his natural talents, imo). It's not just about packing on weight. We saw what happened to Shawn Kemp. Even Lebron and Melo went on a diet. His body type is more along their type than typical 4s.

It's not about his shooting or ball handling for me. ...and not to be rude, but statements like this, "Can you imagine how bad our scoring would be with Payton, Oladipo and Gordon as our starting PG, SG and SF?" are the type of statements that annoy me because you're basing that on them being finished products.

On your first point, you have to realize what is becoming of the league. The league is beginning to shift away from the classic mold of the typical PF and now PFs are becoming more perimeter oriented. The post offense PF is a dying breed. PFs now don't have to be nearly as strong as Cs in post defense anymore.

You are thinking too narrowly about Gordon role on this team. What may be the best for him individually might not be the best for the team when you consider the skillsets of the other players on the team. I do agree he has the body type to dominate at SF but he doesn't have the offensive skills to do so other than ballhandling. You've seen his percentages, those are hard to improve. He's never going to be Larry Bird or Paul Pierce. Saying Gordon being in the corner without the ball at times doesn't mean he's going to be a stretch 4, that just means he can hit a corner 3. Being able to hit a corner 3 doesn't define your role as a player when it is just one weapon you have in your skillset.

Payton, Oladipo and Gordon aren't finished products, but to expect them to be completely different players on offense is more asinine than assuming they are finished products. The calling card those 3 players will always have will be their defense. Those 3 as PG, SG, SF will never be offensively viable unless Vuc and Harris become superstar offensive players, which I doubt. You hate them being considered finished products, but you are contradicting yourself by assuming Gordon is a finished product physically. At 19 years old, Gordon still has growing to do. He could easily have the perfect PF body that you assume he won't have. For a prime example, just look at how Dwight Howard developed physically from when we first got him.

[Driguez]

any update on gordon?
Still in walking boot? any healing to that bone?
i saw a twitter? pick a week or so ago where he was in bed and in plaster.

Been wondering myself. Seems like forever.

[Skin]

Why can't Gordon develop his shot and be a PF? Gordon and Harris won't step on each others toes.

As I see it, if anything Gordon makes Harris more valuable. The best scorer we have is Harris and he's better on defense and offense vs SFs than PFs. That should make him a lock to be the SF. Can you imagine how bad our scoring would be with Payton, Oladipo and Gordon as our starting PG, SG and SF? That lineup has terrible balance and spacing when your best 2 scorers play PF and C. I believe Gordon is good enough to defend PFs AND SFs full time in the future. Gordon's future in our offense should have nothing to do with how we use him on defense.

It's annoying how some act that because Gordon can handle the ball means he isn't a PF, and therefore is a SF. Look at Shawn Marion with the Suns or Blake Griffin, they handled the ball and could shoot decently. The versatility of Gordon isn't being embraced enough. He can attack and defend on the perimeter and the paint. The positions on our team that lack versatility should define how the versatility of our forwards, Gordon and Harris, should complement it. Payton can't be anything but a PG, Oladipo (despite that he can be used as a PG) can't be (mostly) anything but a SG and Vucevic can't be anything but a C. Those 3 positions are unchanging and we know what the strengths of those 3 are. So if the guard positions are defense oriented and the C is offense oriented, for the sake of balance, shouldn't the SF be the more offensive oriented player in Harris and the PF be the more defensive oriented player in Gordon? Doesn't the future PG/SG/SF/PF/C lineup look much better as D/D/O/D/O than D/D/D/O/O?

How Gordon and Harris should be used together on defense should be predicated on which of the 2 opposing forwards is the bigger offensive threat. For example, if we play Durant or Melo who play mostly SF, Gordon is better off on them and Harris is better off on Ibaka or whoever is the PF of the Knicks. If we play Aldridge, Griffin or Dirk who are PFs, Gordon should be on them and Harris on Batum, Barnes, or Parsons. Offensively, Gordon should be either in the corner without the ball or in the high post with the ball while Harris works in the midrange where he does most of his damage by either handling it himself or receiving the ball from Payton, Oladipo, Gordon or Vuc.

Basically, Gordon and Harris don't hurt each others value to our team. To me, their future value comes from how they complement each other and how that flexible pairing complements the more inflexible skill sets of the rest of their core teammates.

The whole thing about Gordon being a SF over a PF for me has to do with his body type....more specifically, his base. He can dominate the 3 spot with his combination of size, ball handling, explosion. I can't say the same for him at the 4. Unless he develops into a stretch 4 (which would be a terrible use of his natural talents, imo). It's not just about packing on weight. We saw what happened to Shawn Kemp. Even Lebron and Melo went on a diet. His body type is more along their type than typical 4s.

It's not about his shooting or ball handling for me. ...and not to be rude, but statements like this, "Can you imagine how bad our scoring would be with Payton, Oladipo and Gordon as our starting PG, SG and SF?" are the type of statements that annoy me because you're basing that on them being finished products.

On your first point, you have to realize what is becoming of the league. The league is beginning to shift away from the classic mold of the typical PF and now PFs are becoming more perimeter oriented. The post offense PF is a dying breed. PFs now don't have to be nearly as strong as Cs in post defense anymore.

You are thinking too narrowly about Gordon role on this team. What may be the best for him individually might not be the best for the team when you consider the skillsets of the other players on the team. I do agree he has the body type to dominate at SF but he doesn't have the offensive skills to do so other than ballhandling. You've seen his percentages, those are hard to improve. He's never going to be Larry Bird or Paul Pierce. Saying Gordon being in the corner without the ball at times doesn't mean he's going to be a stretch 4, that just means he can hit a corner 3. Being able to hit a corner 3 doesn't define your role as a player when it is just one weapon you have in your skillset.

Payton, Oladipo and Gordon aren't finished products, but to expect them to be completely different players on offense is more asinine than assuming they are finished products. The calling card those 3 players will always have will be their defense. Those 3 as PG, SG, SF will never be offensively viable unless Vuc and Harris become superstar offensive players, which I doubt. You hate them being considered finished products, but you are contradicting yourself by assuming Gordon is a finished product physically. At 19 years old, Gordon still has growing to do. He could easily have the perfect PF body that you assume he won't have. For a prime example, just look at how Dwight Howard developed physically from when we first got him.

Nope, I'm not contradicting myself. By this age, Gordon's base is not going to change dramatically. Sure he may grow an inch or pack on 15 pounds of muscle, but his body type will not change. That's a completely different science compared to seeing him improve in his skills. ...and if you really think that, then you're the one being contradicting. Saying he will change physically but not skillfully. Using the word NEVER to describe the limits of Payton, Oladipo and Gordon's offensive capability is down right baseless. They've shown improvement right before our eyes in just the short time they have been here.

I really don't get this idea where you have established that players cannot improve their games. In fact, I'm dumbfounded by it. It even goes against common sense. Larry Bird was a natural, but Michael Jordan had to work hard to become a good shooter. So many countless number of great players in this league have gotten better through hard work and honing their skill. Percentages don't mean squat for our young guys right now. Did you see Russell Westbrook's percentages early in his career? The list goes on and on. Hearing you say, "Those 3 as PG, SG, SF will never be offensively viable..." eeesh... me no likey.

The genius of Henny selecting them based on their strong defensive capabilities is that unlike offense, being a good defender relies much more on God given talent. At this level, it's much easier to see a guy become a better shooter than a better defender. If you can't defend by now, it's likely never to happen. You can learn to be a better team defender, but you don't see a guy just turn into a Kawhi Leonard or Ben Wallace by hard work, because they simply don't have the body and talent to do it. Shooting can come through repetition and technique. It doesn't require having a superior body, length, motor, athleticism.

...and how the league is trending is by using their talent that they have to the best of their abilities. They are not pigeon holing their players into doing things where they aren't being put to do what they do best. Which is what you are suggesting we do with Gordon. You admit he could be a dominant SF but wouldn't do it based on fit with the team? That's backwards, imo.

[zerp]

Marc Gasol

[OrlandoDream]

Changed my mind.....Derick Favors.

[rusoopE]

what do you guys think about Josh Smith, playing at PF, we can trade Frye and absorve his salary (as the Pistons are trying to extend Drummond and Monroe) and/or another sing-trade player in the summer. I think the Pistons are willing to trade him, as he cant play along Drummond and Monroe, he's still young, he can revive his carreer, he is athletic, can open the court, he will be under contract until the 2016-2017 season (he will be 31), i think its a high risk high rewarding trade.

[cedric76]

Frye is needed to open the court for our other guys

[rusoopE]

Frye is needed to open the court for our other guys

so, you think the Magic already has the best PF? imo smith can open the court too (not taking 3's but 10-20 feets j's) and he's way better on both ends

[ogmagicfan]

what do you guys think about Josh Smith, playing at PF, we can trade Frye and absorve his salary (as the Pistons are trying to extend Drummond and Monroe) and/or another sing-trade player in the summer. I think the Pistons are willing to trade him, as he cant play along Drummond and Monroe, he's still young, he can revive his carreer, he is athletic, can open the court, he will be under contract until the 2016-2017 season (he will be 31), i think its a high risk high rewarding trade.

Hell no, I do not want to touch Josh Smith with a stick

[doct3r dr3]

PF:

So what r the quality of this mystery PF that could help Harris/vuc and the rest of our team?

-defensive minded
-athletic
-mid range jumper
-above average 3pt shot

Hmmmm seems like a lot to ask

-defensive minded

-athletic

-mid range jumper

-above average 3pt shot

[JaxMagic]