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[Basketball Insiders] "Don

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[Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#1 » by OrlandO » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:46 pm

Lengthy article from Basketball Insiders... some nice buzz for the Magic and Payton. http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-p ... id-payton/

Payton throws some beautiful passes that are insanely accurate and lead to easy points. Some teammates have even said that Payton will realize they’re open before they do themselves.


Running an up-tempo offense is tiring. Running an up-tempo offense and then fullcourt pressing is exhausting. But Payton seems to have a never-ending supply of energy, flying around the floor and making plays everywhere. It’s no surprise that opposing point guards hate playing against him.


“I love it,” Payton said of harassing point guards. “It helps me get into my rhythm and I think it helps my teammates get into a defensive mindset. When I’m getting my hand on the ball, it makes things easier for them so that’s definitely something that I focus on. It’s one of those things that I can do that helps the whole team.”


“I was just trying to change something,” Payton said of his adjustment. “We had been losing and you obviously can’t go into games doing the same thing and expecting different results. Picking up the ball and picking up the pace were some things that I thought could help us. All of the guys on the team thought it would be a good idea, and we’ve had some success. We have a lot of guys on this team with talent, who can put the ball in the hole. They just have to be put in the right position and if that’s by pushing the pace, that’s what we need to do.”


“I credit the young fella; I don’t know about anybody else, but I credit Elfrid,” Oladipo said. “He sets the tone. He’s pushing the ball and getting us going. It’s all him. He’s pressuring the ball and pushing the ball, and he makes me want to do it even more because you know I can’t let him get more steals than me (smiles). So then I go out and pressure too. He just makes everybody else play the same way, so credit him for setting the tone.”

Upon hearing Oladipo’s praise, an embarrassed Payton looked away and downplayed his individual involvement. While that’s just Payton being Payton, it’s clear that the team believes his leadership and play have been the source of this turnaround. It’s rare for a 20-year-old rookie to step into that kind of role and win over a locker room (especially one with experienced veterans), but that’s exactly what Payton has done.

“It makes me feel good to hear that, but I’m just a piece,” Payton said, deflecting the attention. “I’m just a piece and I’m just trying to go out there and do my job. I’m trying to do whatever I can to help the team, so if that means getting a steal and kicking it ahead to my teammates, that’s what I’m going to do.

“[Hearing them say that] does a lot for my confidence, though, because it shows that my teammates trust me and like to play with me. And that’s all I want, to make my teammates better and help them.”


“Without a doubt, [Elfrid] is the key,” Magic power forward Channing Frye said. “You see him picking up guys fullcourt for 48 minutes. It’s unbelievable. I hope he stays consistent with that, because we need it. I think his defense is infectious. … In Portland, when he was picking up Lillard fullcourt, that got everyone hyped. I told him, ‘Hey, as fast as you want to run, I’m cool with that. I can run as fast as you want to run; I can do this all day.’ We started getting the ball out faster, getting down the court faster and you started to see guys getting easy lay-ups and easy shots.”


We most definitely [want to be the NBA’s best defensive backcourt],” Payton said. “It starts with defense, but we feel like we can get there offensively too. We want to be the best backcourt, period. That’s the goal and that’s what we’re working for. Obviously that’s something for down the line, but that’s what we’re working for… I think this could be the start of something. Rome wasn’t built in a day so we’ve had our struggles – and I think we’ll have even more struggles – but I think if we continue to make progress each and every day, we will be in a good position when all is said and done.”


“We hang out a lot, talk a lot of basketball and watch a little bit of film [together],” Payton said of he and Oladipo. “We’re always talking and building that chemistry. When you like somebody, it’s easy to play with them. I think that’s important. Being friends off the court makes things so much easier on the court.”
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#2 » by magician4ever » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:20 pm

I'm new to these forums, been a Magic fan since I was four, and I love this compilation of quotes. I would do what the Raptors normally do on threads, +1, but I'm not really sure how to do that. The 76ers are going to regret using Elf as trade bait to get their 2017 pick back :lol: Love how this team is finally getting an identity.

EDIT: figured out how to +1 lol
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#3 » by Driguez » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:22 pm

“We had been losing and you obviously can’t go into games doing the same thing and expecting different results. Picking up the ball and picking up the pace were some things that I thought could help us. All of the guys on the team thought it would be a good idea, and we’ve had some success."

Ok, that clears things up. Doesn't seem to me JV was begging him to run. This team is a player/coached team. JV still sucks. :lol: :lol: :lol: I have no idea where the whole JV was pushing Elfro to run came from.
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[Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#4 » by tooler » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:24 pm

Well, someone wrote down the same interpretation of the post-game interviews that I had. At this point if Jacque wants to take credit for the change of identity, he'll have to put it in his memoir. :)

I love how he busted out the random cliche "Rome wasn't built in a day" like an old wise man.
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[Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#5 » by tooler » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:34 pm

Also, someone might have figured it out eventually, but God bless Portland for stomping us into the ground the first 16 minutes on Saturday.

Every brick we laid was the foundation for this change.

(I'd say "for this **** wall" but that's taken.)
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#6 » by ChosenSavior » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:59 pm

magician4ever wrote:I'm new to these forums, been a Magic fan since I was four, and I love this compilation of quotes. I would do what the Raptors normally do on threads, +1, but I'm not really sure how to do that. The 76ers are going to regret using Elf as trade bait to get their 2017 pick back :lol: Love how this team is finally getting an identity.

EDIT: figured out how to +1 lol


Welcome aboard to the crazy house!
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#7 » by woosah » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:51 am

Driguez wrote:“We had been losing and you obviously can’t go into games doing the same thing and expecting different results. Picking up the ball and picking up the pace were some things that I thought could help us. All of the guys on the team thought it would be a good idea, and we’ve had some success."

Ok, that clears things up. Doesn't seem to me JV was begging him to run. This team is a player/coached team. JV still sucks. :lol: :lol: :lol: I have no idea where the whole JV was pushing Elfro to run came from.

I read it somewhere, i thought here but it could have been another forum, and i said it in a thread. At any rate, while trying to find the original place i saw it, i pulled up plenty of articles from back in October and November where JV is on record saying this is how we wanted to play. Why it has just now started to occur is a guess, but Payton saying he thought of it like it was an original idea of his is not really accurate when you have several articles from months ago saying it was our plan.

here's one from October: http://www.nba.com/magic/denton-magic-want-play-faster-pace-season
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#8 » by tooler » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:06 am

woosah wrote:I read it somewhere, i thought here but it could have been another forum, and i said it in a thread. At any rate, while trying to find the original place i saw it, i pulled up plenty of articles from back in October and November where JV is on record saying this is how we wanted to play. Why it has just now started to occur is a guess, but Payton saying he thought of it like it was an original idea of his is not really accurate when you have several articles from months ago saying it was our plan.

here's one from October: http://www.nba.com/magic/denton-magic-want-play-faster-pace-season

I remember too. That's what makes this so strange.

I remember there was one preseason game where a reporter brought up 20 fast break points and Jacque said "it's a start" with a smile as if he wanted more. We were all excited. Then came the first 38 games: walk the ball up the floor while the coach explains the entire play to Elfrid.

I mean, supposedly we have two other point guards on this team. Why can't Luke Ridnour run for a 3 minute stretch? Oladipo?
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#9 » by woosah » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:15 am

tooler wrote:
woosah wrote:I read it somewhere, i thought here but it could have been another forum, and i said it in a thread. At any rate, while trying to find the original place i saw it, i pulled up plenty of articles from back in October and November where JV is on record saying this is how we wanted to play. Why it has just now started to occur is a guess, but Payton saying he thought of it like it was an original idea of his is not really accurate when you have several articles from months ago saying it was our plan.

here's one from October: http://www.nba.com/magic/denton-magic-want-play-faster-pace-season

I remember too. That's what makes this so strange.

I remember there was one preseason game where a reporter brought up 20 fast break points and Jacque said "it's a start" with a smile as if he wanted more. We were all excited. Then came the first 38 games: walk the ball up the floor while the coach explains the entire play to Elfrid.

I mean, supposedly we have two other point guards on this team. Why can't Luke Ridnour run for a 3 minute stretch? Oladipo?


Yeah, it's a mystery but it wasn't something they just came up with. Maybe the place i read it just drew that conclusion that EP wasn't comfortable with it, or maybe JV just overcoached. idk but just telling the story as i saw it.

here's another from Dec http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2014/12/1/7312361/orlando-magic-2014-nba-stats-analysis-elfrid-payton-aaron-gordon-injury

It's not directly about the pace so i will just post the part where they talk about it.
I hinted at offense as being an issue, and it has been. The Magic currently rank 26th in offensive efficiency, posting 98.7 points per 100 possessions: only the Charlotte Hornets, Detroit Pistons, injury-plagued Oklahoma City Thunder, and Philadelphia 76ers score fewer points per 100 possessions. Head coach Jacque Vaughn has talked about wanting his team to play a bit faster this season, but they haven't done so consistently. They currently sit in a tie for 17th in pace, averaging 95.4 possessions per game, equaling the amount the Los Angeles Clippers and Atlanta Hawks, two projected playoff teams, average.


I don't think JV is gonna hog credit or whatever but it's on record that it was at least in his plan. I don't think he's the best coach but we can't say he didn't see this when it's clear that he did. Why we didn't do it is the real question.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#10 » by jgosche » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:15 am

So, the change of pace was the idea of the players, not Jacque. Author said there were quotes that were "more blunt" on the subject that he had to leave out. He said JV was trying to take credit but the players weren't having it.

Bad look when your coach is trying to take credit for something he didn't do.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#11 » by woosah » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:20 am

jgosche wrote:So, the change of pace was the idea of the players, not Jacque. I talked to Alex about it and he said there were quotes that were "more blunt" on the subject that he had to leave out. He said JV was trying to take credit but the players weren't having it.

Bad look when your coach is trying to take credit for something he didn't do.

So you're saying they thought of this back in October when JV first started talking about it? Just trying to get some clarification here.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#12 » by jgosche » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:25 am

woosah wrote:
jgosche wrote:So, the change of pace was the idea of the players, not Jacque. I talked to Alex about it and he said there were quotes that were "more blunt" on the subject that he had to leave out. He said JV was trying to take credit but the players weren't having it.

Bad look when your coach is trying to take credit for something he didn't do.

So you're saying they thought of this back in October when JV first started talking about it? Just trying to get some clarification here.

No, I think he was saying the players decided to change it up against against Portland. Frye talks about it in the article when he says:

Channing Frye wrote:In Portland, when he was picking up Lillard fullcourt, that got everyone hyped. I told him, ‘Hey, as fast as you want to run, I’m cool with that. I can run as fast as you want to run; I can do this all day.’ We started getting the ball out faster, getting down the court faster and you started to see guys getting easy lay-ups and easy shots
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#13 » by woosah » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:27 am

jgosche wrote:
woosah wrote:
jgosche wrote:So, the change of pace was the idea of the players, not Jacque. I talked to Alex about it and he said there were quotes that were "more blunt" on the subject that he had to leave out. He said JV was trying to take credit but the players weren't having it.

Bad look when your coach is trying to take credit for something he didn't do.

So you're saying they thought of this back in October when JV first started talking about it? Just trying to get some clarification here.

No, I think he was saying the players decided to change it up against against Portland. Frye talks about it in the article.

Alex also said that he has a lot of "hilarious Jacque stories" to tell me, which implies that he's not very good at all.

oh okay. I'm not the Jacque crusader though, but you can see i posted the article from October from Denton that says JV was preaching this then so this is curious that the players don't seem to recall that. Were they never listening to JV then? lol
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#14 » by Driguez » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:28 am

woosah wrote:
Driguez wrote:“We had been losing and you obviously can’t go into games doing the same thing and expecting different results. Picking up the ball and picking up the pace were some things that I thought could help us. All of the guys on the team thought it would be a good idea, and we’ve had some success."

Ok, that clears things up. Doesn't seem to me JV was begging him to run. This team is a player/coached team. JV still sucks. :lol: :lol: :lol: I have no idea where the whole JV was pushing Elfro to run came from.

I read it somewhere, i thought here but it could have been another forum, and i said it in a thread. At any rate, while trying to find the original place i saw it, i pulled up plenty of articles from back in October and November where JV is on record saying this is how we wanted to play. Why it has just now started to occur is a guess, but Payton saying he thought of it like it was an original idea of his is not really accurate when you have several articles from months ago saying it was our plan.

here's one from October: http://www.nba.com/magic/denton-magic-want-play-faster-pace-season




Not saying your'e wrong. Why leave it up to the players to decide when they will play like their coach wants and asks them to? Do you think SVG would have allowed that crap to fly? I give JV kudos on doing his part on these two games , but he still has a lot to prove and as I have always said, I hope he proves me wrong.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#15 » by jgosche » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:31 am

woosah wrote:
jgosche wrote:
woosah wrote:So you're saying they thought of this back in October when JV first started talking about it? Just trying to get some clarification here.

No, I think he was saying the players decided to change it up against against Portland. Frye talks about it in the article.

Alex also said that he has a lot of "hilarious Jacque stories" to tell me, which implies that he's not very good at all.

oh okay. I'm not the Jacque crusader though, but you can see i posted the article from October from Denton that says JV was preaching this then so this is curious that the players don't seem to recall that. Were they never listening to JV then? lol

Yeah whether he was teaching it to the players in October or not, I'm not thrilled what it means for Jacque. It implies that he wasn't really controlling the pace at all and that he isn't influencing the players until they do things themselves (which is especially worrisome since we're such a young team).

I've been pretty impartial on JV but the more I hear about him, the less I like him.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#16 » by woosah » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:33 am

Driguez wrote:
woosah wrote:
Driguez wrote:“We had been losing and you obviously can’t go into games doing the same thing and expecting different results. Picking up the ball and picking up the pace were some things that I thought could help us. All of the guys on the team thought it would be a good idea, and we’ve had some success."

Ok, that clears things up. Doesn't seem to me JV was begging him to run. This team is a player/coached team. JV still sucks. :lol: :lol: :lol: I have no idea where the whole JV was pushing Elfro to run came from.

I read it somewhere, i thought here but it could have been another forum, and i said it in a thread. At any rate, while trying to find the original place i saw it, i pulled up plenty of articles from back in October and November where JV is on record saying this is how we wanted to play. Why it has just now started to occur is a guess, but Payton saying he thought of it like it was an original idea of his is not really accurate when you have several articles from months ago saying it was our plan.

here's one from October: http://www.nba.com/magic/denton-magic-want-play-faster-pace-season




Not saying your'e wrong. Why leave it up to the players to decide when they will play like their coach wants and asks them to? Do you think SVG would have allowed that crap to fly? I give JV kudos on doing his part on these two games , but he still has a lot to prove and as I have always said, I hope he proves me wrong.


No argument from me there. Hell no SVG would NEVER allow his players to dictate anything. Even if it was his idea, it wasn't done so he still has to be good enough to motivate his players to implement his plan. I don't think he is our coach of the future but i only posted because i was the one who posted on what i saw elsewhere and wanted to clarify.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#17 » by tooler » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:54 am

woosah wrote:
I hinted at offense as being an issue, and it has been. The Magic currently rank 26th in offensive efficiency, posting 98.7 points per 100 possessions: only the Charlotte Hornets, Detroit Pistons, injury-plagued Oklahoma City Thunder, and Philadelphia 76ers score fewer points per 100 possessions. Head coach Jacque Vaughn has talked about wanting his team to play a bit faster this season, but they haven't done so consistently. They currently sit in a tie for 17th in pace, averaging 95.4 possessions per game, equaling the amount the Los Angeles Clippers and Atlanta Hawks, two projected playoff teams, average.


I don't think JV is gonna hog credit or whatever but it's on record that it was at least in his plan. I don't think he's the best coach but we can't say he didn't see this when it's clear that he did. Why we didn't do it is the real question.

"A bit faster" is like, what, 10th in pace? The Magic just ran 3.5 possessions more than the Golden State Warriors, who are the fastest team in the league.

Also, most bad teams play quickly. Boston, 76ers, Denver, Minnesota. It's the right thing to do.

jgosche wrote:So, the change of pace was the idea of the players, not Jacque. I talked to Alex about it and he said there were quotes that were "more blunt" on the subject that he had to leave out. He said JV was trying to take credit but the players weren't having it.

Bad look when your coach is trying to take credit for something he didn't do.

Now this is getting silly. Jacque may not be the best coach in the world, but I don't believe he'd be that underhanded.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#18 » by MagicStarwipe » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:06 am

There is literally like an 8 minute interview with JV from today on orlandomagic.com about this very subject.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#19 » by jgosche » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:07 am

But in case you haven't watched any of the post game videos that AdamTheGreek posted, it looks pretty obvious that the players are going out of their way to avoid praising Jacque.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM1OPSg3QwQ&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

The very first question Channing gets asked if the spark came from Jacque and he specifically gives credit to Payton.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcPa8ei7VM&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Watch at 00:42, Oladipo gets asked who decided to pick up the pace, he immediately looks uncomfortable and he gives credit to Payton.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUIcTxpniE&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Watch at 00:15, where Payton is specifically asked if it was Jacque's idea to pick up the pace, he also looks uncomfortable and says it was a collective effort, not mentioning Jacque at all.

Isn't your first instinct as a player to credit your coach for game decisions? Nobody is even acknowledging him. And yet, we have Jacque saying the reason we didn't play up-tempo because Payton wasn't ready.

I really get the feeling the players don't like Jacque.
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Re: [Basketball Insiders] "Don 

Post#20 » by tooler » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:08 am

I saw the player interviews but not Jacque's post-game. Give me a bit to watch them.

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