Thunder (19-20) @ Magic (15-28)

[The Real Dalic]

Welp, I went to this game. And, while I had fun, it was definitely a disappointment. Everyone but AG and Elfrid shot awfully. Elfrid continues to impress though!

[orlando1214]

This Harris back and forth is dumb. It's all pointless because no matter what role Tobias plays for this team the rest of the year, this team is going to continue to suck and be inconsistent until JV is gone. You wanna know what will be best for the Magic? It isn't Tobias starting or coming off the bench, it's firing Vaughn and bringing in someone that actually knows how to coach a basketball team. It's so frustrating to see such good young talent like Payton, Vuc, Dipo, AG, and Harris being wasted because for some reason this front office is okay with mediocrity. Hell it's worse than mediocrity, it's just pathetic at this point. It's not about this team being young, they are better than this, we've seen them be better. I mean I'm not saying they should be dominating the east, but this team should not be tied for the 5th worst record in the league at this point, and it's about time someone answered for that.

Sorry for the rant. Just super frustrated. lol

[OrlandO]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwdydCo5N1g[/youtube]

[MagicStarwipe]

I think it's fair to say we should be looking at this team as a drastically different team from the first half of the season. Since the 2nd half of the Portland game we've been playing a completely different style of ball. We didn't become a great team overnight, but we're finally playing to the strength of our roster. As a result we just went 2-2 against 4 of the best teams in the entire NBA. Plus Aaron Gordon has finally returned after missing 32 games. I'm not going to be too hard on them getting stomped by a legit title contender after the way we have played since Portland. I want to see how this style of ball will work against some of the lesser and middle of the road teams. So far we've only seen it against the NBA's elite.

[Bergmaniac]

Do we have the worst TV crew in the NBA? I can't stand all the non-basketball related BS and how neutral they announce the games. Shouldn't they be more excited when the Magic make a good play? Are all NBA games announced like this? ugh

I miss Matt Guokas a lot. Jeff Turner is so bad that I pray for the League Pass to have the other team's announcers when I watch the Magic (except when we play Boston ). Steele has become much worse than he used to be.

Anyway, not much to say about this game except that Vaughn sucks, but we all know that. This Thunder will beat anyone when they shoot like this, but we didn't even try to make a game out of it, the defense was totally embarrassing. Payton looks like the real deal though, which is great to see.

[tooler]

Hey, our offense looks great in those Elfrid Payton highlights. The only problem is the other team's score.

[thelead]

This team needs a rim protector, it'll be a high priority in future.

We have Dedmon. If you're thinking about a starting quality big that can do that, we already have ~ $20 million per year committed to Vuc and Frye for the next 3 and a half years...

How anyone still defends the Frye signing is beyond me.

[tooler]

Need that rim protector to keep it under 70 in the first half.

[majortom71]

This team needs a rim protector, it'll be a high priority in future.

We have Dedmon. If you're thinking about a starting quality big that can do that, we already have ~ $20 million per year committed to Vuc and Frye for the next 3 and a half years...

How anyone still defends the Frye signing is beyond me.

Frye is not a rim protector, we all know that.
Dedmond looked terrible last game, I know he can D up but he made Perkins look like Hakeem. That's bad.

[MagicStarwipe]

Did anyone watch Elfrid's postgame interview when they asked him about Westbrook? Dude does NOT like giving props or being overly complimentary to anyone he has to compete against in this league. He's a true competitor. I love it.

[Blue_and_Whte]

This team needs a rim protector, it'll be a high priority in future.

We have Dedmon. If you're thinking about a starting quality big that can do that, we already have ~ $20 million per year committed to Vuc and Frye for the next 3 and a half years...

How anyone still defends the Frye signing is beyond me.

This isn't to "defend the signing" but I can certainly see why Hennigan brought him in simply by watching the highlights in that Payton highlight video. Defensively he's atrocious. But I do think he brings something of value to the team. Why do you think Payton is able to get into the lane and make plays?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwdydCo5N1g[/youtube]

3 sec mark Vucevic is posting up one on one vs Adams Ibaka is on the perimeter guarding Frye. The ball squirts out of Westbrook's hands but the point is Ibaka cant help on the glass or on that second chance bucket by Payton.

15 second mark. Payton spins on Westbrook for the score. Ibaka isn't there to help because he's on the perimeter guarding Frye, and Vuc pulls Adams out with his ability to shoot the ball.

36 sec mark Payton actually drives the ball near Ibaka who can't help because on the perimeter guarding Frye. He doesn't even attempt the block.

Around the 56 sec mark We have Hark, AG, O'Quinn, Dipo. OKC crowds the paint on the Payton drive and the possession ends with a contested Dipo 3. The shot goes in but my point stands.

1:06 mark..Vucevic one on one against Ibaka...Durant cant leave Frye to help until the shot is up and that's to crash the board..Vuc makes the shot.

1:08 mark. Payton, again, is able to drive the wide open lane. Westbrook knocks the ball away but Payton steals it back for the score....Where is Ibaka for the help...Out on the perimeter guarding Frye.

1:29 mark. Payton drives, Ibaka helps a little, Payton finds Frye for 3.

1:41 mark. Floor is wide open which allows Payton to get the lane at will. Ibaka helps a little but cant fully commit because......He's out on the perimeter guarding Frye....Payton finds Fournier on the play who hits a 3 but Frye was wide open. Again...Spacing.

1:49 mark. One of the best examples. Payton drives. Again Ibaka reaches a little but cant fully commit to stopping the drive because....He's out on the perimeter guarding Frye.

He provides spacing for our wings and vuc. Let's replace Frye with O'Quinn or AG full time and see if Payton gets into the lane the way he has been. That whole "Frye effect" write up wasn't a fluke. Those guys in Phoenix benefited from the spacing he provides with his ability to hit the 3pt shot, namely Bledsoe.

Bledsoe:
2013-14: FG% .477 3P% .357
2014-2015: FG% .437 3P% .309

[FloridaHoosier]

This team needs a rim protector, it'll be a high priority in future.

We have Dedmon. If you're thinking about a starting quality big that can do that, we already have ~ $20 million per year committed to Vuc and Frye for the next 3 and a half years...

How anyone still defends the Frye signing is beyond me.

Frye is not a rim protector, we all know that.
Dedmond looked terrible last game, I know he can D up but he made Perkins look like Hakeem. That's bad.

We really need another fast, big to compliment what we already have. We know we can run, but right now we can't out muscle these bigger teams.

[thelead]

This team needs a rim protector, it'll be a high priority in future.

We have Dedmon. If you're thinking about a starting quality big that can do that, we already have ~ $20 million per year committed to Vuc and Frye for the next 3 and a half years...

How anyone still defends the Frye signing is beyond me.

Frye is not a rim protector, we all know that.
Dedmond looked terrible last game, I know he can D up but he made Perkins look like Hakeem. That's bad.

We all know Frye isn't a rim protector. My point was that we have a center and power forward being paid starters money for the next 3.5 years. I don't know where we're going to get more help from right now if it's not in the draft. And as principle, I never like drafting by need.

[thelead]

This team needs a rim protector, it'll be a high priority in future.

We have Dedmon. If you're thinking about a starting quality big that can do that, we already have ~ $20 million per year committed to Vuc and Frye for the next 3 and a half years...

How anyone still defends the Frye signing is beyond me.

This isn't to "defend the signing" but I can certainly see why Hennigan brought him in simply by watching the highlights in that Payton highlight video. Defensively he's atrocious. But I do think he brings something of value to the team. Why do you think Payton is able to get into the lane and make plays?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwdydCo5N1g[/youtube]

3 sec mark Vucevic is posting up one on one vs Adams Ibaka is on the perimeter guarding Frye. The ball squirts out of Westbrook's hands but the point is Ibaka cant help on the glass or on that second chance bucket by Payton.

15 second mark. Payton spins on Westbrook for the score. Ibaka isn't there to help because he's on the perimeter guarding Frye, and Vuc pulls Adams out with his ability to shoot the ball.

36 sec mark Payton actually drives the ball near Ibaka who can't help because on the perimeter guarding Frye. He doesn't even attempt the block.

Around the 56 sec mark We have Hark, AG, O'Quinn, Dipo. OKC crowds the paint on the Payton drive and the possession ends with a contested Dipo 3. The shot goes in but my point stands.

1:06 mark..Vucevic one on one against Ibaka...Durant cant leave Frye to help until the shot is up and that's to crash the board..Vuc makes the shot.

1:08 mark. Payton, again, is able to drive the wide open lane. Westbrook knocks the ball away but Payton steals it back for the score....Where is Ibaka for the help...Out on the perimeter guarding Frye.

1:29 mark. Payton drives, Ibaka helps a little, Payton finds Frye for 3.

1:41 mark. Floor is wide open which allows Payton to get the lane at will. Ibaka helps a little but cant fully commit because......He's out on the perimeter guarding Frye....Payton finds Fournier on the play who hits a 3 but Frye was wide open. Again...Spacing.

1:49 mark. One of the best examples. Payton drives. Again Ibaka reaches a little but cant fully commit to stopping the drive because....He's out on the perimeter guarding Frye.

He provides spacing for our wings and vuc. Let's replace Frye with O'Quinn or AG full time and see if Payton gets into the lane the way he has been. That whole "Frye effect" write up wasn't a fluke. Those guys in Phoenix benefited from the spacing he provides with his ability to hit the 3pt shot, namely Bledsoe.

Bledsoe:
2013-14: FG% .477 3P% .357
2014-2015: FG% .437 3P% .309

I get that part. I really do but it doesn't negate the rebounding and defensive deficiencies he brings. To me, Frye is a great 10-20 mpg option off the bench. Unfortunately, he's getting paid starters dollars.

[Blue_and_Whte]

We have Dedmon. If you're thinking about a starting quality big that can do that, we already have ~ $20 million per year committed to Vuc and Frye for the next 3 and a half years...

How anyone still defends the Frye signing is beyond me.

This isn't to "defend the signing" but I can certainly see why Hennigan brought him in simply by watching the highlights in that Payton highlight video. Defensively he's atrocious. But I do think he brings something of value to the team. Why do you think Payton is able to get into the lane and make plays?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwdydCo5N1g[/youtube]

3 sec mark Vucevic is posting up one on one vs Adams Ibaka is on the perimeter guarding Frye. The ball squirts out of Westbrook's hands but the point is Ibaka cant help on the glass or on that second chance bucket by Payton.

15 second mark. Payton spins on Westbrook for the score. Ibaka isn't there to help because he's on the perimeter guarding Frye, and Vuc pulls Adams out with his ability to shoot the ball.

36 sec mark Payton actually drives the ball near Ibaka who can't help because on the perimeter guarding Frye. He doesn't even attempt the block.

Around the 56 sec mark We have Hark, AG, O'Quinn, Dipo. OKC crowds the paint on the Payton drive and the possession ends with a contested Dipo 3. The shot goes in but my point stands.

1:06 mark..Vucevic one on one against Ibaka...Durant cant leave Frye to help until the shot is up and that's to crash the board..Vuc makes the shot.

1:08 mark. Payton, again, is able to drive the wide open lane. Westbrook knocks the ball away but Payton steals it back for the score....Where is Ibaka for the help...Out on the perimeter guarding Frye.

1:29 mark. Payton drives, Ibaka helps a little, Payton finds Frye for 3.

1:41 mark. Floor is wide open which allows Payton to get the lane at will. Ibaka helps a little but cant fully commit because......He's out on the perimeter guarding Frye....Payton finds Fournier on the play who hits a 3 but Frye was wide open. Again...Spacing.

1:49 mark. One of the best examples. Payton drives. Again Ibaka reaches a little but cant fully commit to stopping the drive because....He's out on the perimeter guarding Frye.

He provides spacing for our wings and vuc. Let's replace Frye with O'Quinn or AG full time and see if Payton gets into the lane the way he has been. That whole "Frye effect" write up wasn't a fluke. Those guys in Phoenix benefited from the spacing he provides with his ability to hit the 3pt shot, namely Bledsoe.

Bledsoe:
2013-14: FG% .477 3P% .357
2014-2015: FG% .437 3P% .309

I get that part. I really do but it doesn't negate the rebounding and defensive deficiencies he brings. To me, Frye is a great 10-20 mpg option off the bench. Unfortunately, he's getting paid starters dollars.

You're right. Specifically moving his feet within the team defensive scheme (or lack thereof.) BUT Frye has never been a big rebounder or defender so I never had that expectation. It can't be denied though that the floor is wide open due to his presence on the court and I think Payton's success these last two games are a direct correlation of that.

Also, and someone may need to help with this, but does Frye contract prevent us from making a splash in free agency?

[Jiwol]

I want to see how this style of ball will work against some of the lesser and middle of the road teams. So far we've only seen it against the NBA's elite.

This. i was frustrated as everyone else yesterday night but it crossed my mind too. We need to find out how our new tactics works against lesser competition.

[thelead]

This isn't to "defend the signing" but I can certainly see why Hennigan brought him in simply by watching the highlights in that Payton highlight video. Defensively he's atrocious. But I do think he brings something of value to the team. Why do you think Payton is able to get into the lane and make plays?



3 sec mark Vucevic is posting up one on one vs Adams Ibaka is on the perimeter guarding Frye. The ball squirts out of Westbrook's hands but the point is Ibaka cant help on the glass or on that second chance bucket by Payton.

15 second mark. Payton spins on Westbrook for the score. Ibaka isn't there to help because he's on the perimeter guarding Frye, and Vuc pulls Adams out with his ability to shoot the ball.

36 sec mark Payton actually drives the ball near Ibaka who can't help because on the perimeter guarding Frye. He doesn't even attempt the block.

Around the 56 sec mark We have Hark, AG, O'Quinn, Dipo. OKC crowds the paint on the Payton drive and the possession ends with a contested Dipo 3. The shot goes in but my point stands.

1:06 mark..Vucevic one on one against Ibaka...Durant cant leave Frye to help until the shot is up and that's to crash the board..Vuc makes the shot.

1:08 mark. Payton, again, is able to drive the wide open lane. Westbrook knocks the ball away but Payton steals it back for the score....Where is Ibaka for the help...Out on the perimeter guarding Frye.

1:29 mark. Payton drives, Ibaka helps a little, Payton finds Frye for 3.

1:41 mark. Floor is wide open which allows Payton to get the lane at will. Ibaka helps a little but cant fully commit because......He's out on the perimeter guarding Frye....Payton finds Fournier on the play who hits a 3 but Frye was wide open. Again...Spacing.

1:49 mark. One of the best examples. Payton drives. Again Ibaka reaches a little but cant fully commit to stopping the drive because....He's out on the perimeter guarding Frye.

He provides spacing for our wings and vuc. Let's replace Frye with O'Quinn or AG full time and see if Payton gets into the lane the way he has been. That whole "Frye effect" write up wasn't a fluke. Those guys in Phoenix benefited from the spacing he provides with his ability to hit the 3pt shot, namely Bledsoe.

Bledsoe:
2013-14: FG% .477 3P% .357
2014-2015: FG% .437 3P% .309

I get that part. I really do but it doesn't negate the rebounding and defensive deficiencies he brings. To me, Frye is a great 10-20 mpg option off the bench. Unfortunately, he's getting paid starters dollars.

You're right. Specifically moving his feet within the team defensive scheme (or lack thereof.) BUT Frye has never been a big rebounder or defender so I never had that expectation. It can't be denied though that the floor is wide open due to his presence on the court and I think Payton's success these last two games are a direct correlation of that.

Also, and someone may need to help with this, but does Frye contract prevent us from making a splash in free agency?

Does it hurt us from making a splash? Too many variables to answer that question with a straightforward answer. Potentially yes, it stops us from offering two max contracts. This also depends on what we're going to do with Harris and any trades before the deadline.

[BayAreaMadSkill]

I've resorted back to watching the games solely for the player development, just like last season, which was a tank season...

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

http://www.nbadraft.net/2015mock_draft

WInslow at #5? Is the draft this awful in 2015?

I'm a Duke fan so I see Winslow all the time. He has all of the tools to be a very talented player, but he is VERY RAW. Doesn't have a great shot yet, makes bad decisions with the ball, and honestly needs more college ball to develop. I would be pissed if he came out and we drafted him, lol.

Oh, and since I dont like in Florida and never get to see our games (since League Pass is too much and I'm busy), I will simply say that I am very excited for how well Vucevic, Payton, and 'Dipo have looked as of late. We still need a better coach and more depth.

[ezzzp]

This team needs a rim protector, it'll be a high priority in future.

We have Dedmon. If you're thinking about a starting quality big that can do that, we already have ~ $20 million per year committed to Vuc and Frye for the next 3 and a half years...

How anyone still defends the Frye signing is beyond me.

Magic have and will have plenty of cap space. Unless you are Devos, why are you worried about how much the Magic have committed to Vuc and Frye? Rosters aren't built or analyzed using positional salary totals because contracts, ages, growth and role's are not static isolated values.

This has been discussed a trillion times on this board, but again: Frye is a vet placeholder / developmental tool for our youth - not as our future PF or to lead this team into the promise-land. Yes, Frye sucks defensively but he wasn't brought in for that.

Magic already have Harris and just drafted Aaron Gordon, both young forwards - either could be used as-is at the 4 or could develop into true PF's over the next couple of years. Getting an in demand skill (stretch 4) from a veteran who was top 3 at that skillset to join a rebuild (knowing his role was a placeholder) costs money in the real world.

[BadMofoPimp]

This Harris back and forth is dumb. It's all pointless because no matter what role Tobias plays for this team the rest of the year, this team is going to continue to suck and be inconsistent until JV is gone. You wanna know what will be best for the Magic? It isn't Tobias starting or coming off the bench, it's firing Vaughn and bringing in someone that actually knows how to coach a basketball team. It's so frustrating to see such good young talent like Payton, Vuc, Dipo, AG, and Harris being wasted because for some reason this front office is okay with mediocrity. Hell it's worse than mediocrity, it's just pathetic at this point. It's not about this team being young, they are better than this, we've seen them be better. I mean I'm not saying they should be dominating the east, but this team should not be tied for the 5th worst record in the league at this point, and it's about time someone answered for that.

Sorry for the rant. Just super frustrated. lol

I am not sure if I could have said it better. Well done, grasshopper!