FA target for the Magic this summer

[OrlandoNed]

Ideally.. What I want this team to look like next year. Somewhat realistic with some lottery lucky.


Trade:

Tobias Harris s&t
for
Taj Gibson
A.Brooks s&t

*Sign Middleton to a near close to max, assuming Kawhi is out of reach, this is the next closest 3&D player.


*Attempt to find a new home for Frye


Payton/A.Brooks
Oladipo/Fournier
Kris Middleton/Aaron Gordon
Taj Gibson/Towns
Vucevic/Dedmon


That right there is a playoff contender easily, I think would have the 4th or 5th best record in the east. Good spacing and excellent defense.

2 things-

1. Why do you think the Bucks will let Middleton go for nothing?

2. Why would you want us to lose our best wing scorer who is 22 and fits with the age of our core for a PF who is almost 30?

[Viper1500]

Ideally.. What I want this team to look like next year. Somewhat realistic with some lottery lucky.


Trade:

Tobias Harris s&t
for
Taj Gibson
A.Brooks s&t

*Sign Middleton to a near close to max, assuming Kawhi is out of reach, this is the next closest 3&D player.


*Attempt to find a new home for Frye


Payton/A.Brooks
Oladipo/Fournier
Kris Middleton/Aaron Gordon
Taj Gibson/Towns
Vucevic/Dedmon


That right there is a playoff contender easily, I think would have the 4th or 5th best record in the east. Good spacing and excellent defense.

2 things-

1. Why do you think the Bucks will let Middleton go for nothing?

2. Why would you want us to lose our best wing scorer who is 22 and fits with the age of our core for a PF who is almost 30?

1. Like mentioned, the Bucks have Jabari and the Greek freak

2. Have you ever heard the phrase is takes vets to win? Near 30 isn't old and it adds much needed defense to this roster.

[Viper1500]

I still think it'd be insane to match $15 mil per year for Middleton. I believe the FO will match "any offer" for Middleton about the same as I believe them when they said Knight was "near untouchable".

I can be talked into $12-13 mil per year, but at 15 I'm looking at sign & trade scenarios to get the most value I can from him.

Quote from the bucks board

[OrlandoNed]

What's so unrealistic about it?

It is unrealistic because there is no chance that the Bulls/Spurs will not match a max contract offered to their restricted free agents. Butler and Leonard are completely worth their respective max deals and are too good to lose, especially for nothing. If anybody expects us to pry any stud restricted free agents away from their teams, they are having unrealistic expectations.

News flash guys: We are not going to get Butler, Leonard, Middleton or Green this offseason. All of their teams know how good they are and are going to match their max offers.

Not true, Middleton is expendable with Jabari/Greek Freak and Green is far from out of reach.

Just because Middleton might expendable to the Bucks, doesn't mean they will let him go for nothing. They have been perfectly fine with him playing SG for the majority of the season. They most likely plan on having a lengthy starting 5 of MCW, Middleton, Parker, Giannis and Henson for the foreseeable future. Simply having Parker and Giannis on the team on rookie deals is not a good enough one single reason to let him go.

Trust me Green is also out of reach. If GSW has the choice to keep their 3rd best player, they will keep him.

[Viper1500]

Yeah Sorry, I thought this was the topic where I expressed interest in Danny Green, haha. I edited that

[OrlandoNed]

I still think it'd be insane to match $15 mil per year for Middleton. I believe the FO will match "any offer" for Middleton about the same as I believe them when they said Knight was "near untouchable".

I can be talked into $12-13 mil per year, but at 15 I'm looking at sign & trade scenarios to get the most value I can from him.

Quote from the bucks board

That's just one random Bucks fan's opinion.

[Viper1500]

It sounds more like you want to get better off player growth. I feel as if that is another 3 years. I don't support giving Tobias the max, he's very overrated offensively and hasn't shown much growth defensively.

[ralphie9898]

I don't care what the fans say, I'll believe more of what their front office guys say about it. You know, the guys who actually make decisions for the team. They've said they have every intention of matching his contract and aren't afraid of the tax. I seriously doubt they mind paying the luxury tax for one year while Lee's contract expires in order to keep one of their 4 best players.

Ohhhh the front office people, I see I see.

Wait what do you expect them to say lol? That they are simply not matching

Are these the same front office people that said they will match ANYTHING for Chandler Parsons and let him walk?

I don't ultimately disagree with you but we have absolutely no clue what GSW is thinking and I have learned in this league anything is possible.

Maxed out Thompson
Maxed out Green
Near max Iggy
Near max Bogut

That's a lot of money and not including what Barnes will get paid next off season.

I'm fairly certain that GSW is not run by the same front office as Houston. It is foolish and naïve to assume GSW (which is the best team in the league) would be stupid enough to let go of their 3rd best player because they might have to pay the tax for one season.

yeah withe cap going up and thus the luxury tax as well they aren't likely to be shy paying the luxury tax for one year especially given how good they are and how well they are positioned to win it all this year and as we go into the future. Winning helps out the books as well. I guess you never know as I wouldn't say it is impossible(a lot can happen between now and when free agency starts) but yeah as it stands now it looks likely that they match.

[ralphie9898]

It is unrealistic because there is no chance that the Bulls/Spurs will not match a max contract offered to their restricted free agents. Butler and Leonard are completely worth their respective max deals and are too good to lose, especially for nothing. If anybody expects us to pry any stud restricted free agents away from their teams, they are having unrealistic expectations.

News flash guys: We are not going to get Butler, Leonard, Middleton or Green this offseason. All of their teams know how good they are and are going to match their max offers.

Not true, Middleton is expendable with Jabari/Greek Freak and Green is far from out of reach.

Just because Middleton might expendable to the Bucks, doesn't mean they will let him go for nothing. They have been perfectly fine with him playing SG for the majority of the season. They most likely plan on having a lengthy starting 5 of MCW, Middleton, Parker, Giannis and Henson for the foreseeable future. Simply having Parker and Giannis on the team on rookie deals is not a good enough one single reason to let him go.

Trust me Green is also out of reach. If GSW has the choice to keep their 3rd best player, they will keep him.

I am still going after these guys though. I mean why not. At least see if their is interest and yeah if we can get an offer sheet signed yeah we should try. We have plenty of cap space and with the cap going up next year the contracts signed this summer will be pretty reasonable going forward. Even max deals for guys like Deandre Jordan will be a lot less than what guys will get in 2016. I would go all in and try and sign the better young talent. If they match then it is no harm to us. It is possible that they choose not to match. It doesn't happen very often but it can happen and there are a lot of factors that go into it that maybe we as fans just aren't seeing.

[OrlandoNed]

It sounds more like you want to get better off player growth. I feel as if that is another 3 years. I don't support giving Tobias the max, he's very overrated offensively and hasn't shown much growth defensively.

I'm not saying Harris is the end all be all at SF, its just that I don't believe we have a realistic shot at anybody who is better.

It doesn't sound like you are patient enough to wait for Harris to develop further, so I can assume you don't want to wait for a rookie to develop either. What would you rather have happen, lose Harris and miss out on a free agent who is better than he is and draft another Aaron Gordon type player like Stanley Johnson and wait for him to become better than Harris which will slow our climb to the playoffs OR would you rather keep Harris and have our rebuild progress as is instead of stepping back?

We can't afford to be too picky when it comes to impact players, especially those who we already have who wants to be here. Remember, Orlando doesn't have the appeal of a big or sexy market or ability to contend right now which are the major drawing points for the free agents that truly matter. Orlando's cap space is better spent keeping our most productive players as our core and signing supplemental free agents to support them.

[OrlandoNed]

Not true, Middleton is expendable with Jabari/Greek Freak and Green is far from out of reach.

Just because Middleton might expendable to the Bucks, doesn't mean they will let him go for nothing. They have been perfectly fine with him playing SG for the majority of the season. They most likely plan on having a lengthy starting 5 of MCW, Middleton, Parker, Giannis and Henson for the foreseeable future. Simply having Parker and Giannis on the team on rookie deals is not a good enough one single reason to let him go.

Trust me Green is also out of reach. If GSW has the choice to keep their 3rd best player, they will keep him.

I am still going after these guys though. I mean why not. At least see if their is interest and yeah if we can get an offer sheet signed yeah we should try. We have plenty of cap space and with the cap going up next year the contracts signed this summer will be pretty reasonable going forward. Even max deals for guys like Deandre Jordan will be a lot less than what guys will get in 2016. I would go all in and try and sign the better young talent. If they match then it is no harm to us. It is possible that they choose not to match. It doesn't happen very often but it can happen and there are a lot of factors that go into it that maybe we as fans just aren't seeing.

We can try but what is point going after guys we have no chance at getting? It's one thing to pursue free agents who can sign wherever they want, but chasing after restricted free agents with teams who know how valuable they are and have the cap to keep them seems like a waste of time and effort.

[ezzzp]

On Middleton:

The former second-round pick has suited up for the door-busting clearance rate of $915,000 this season. By next year, he could be collecting nearly 10 times that amount.

"One NBA assistant general manager estimated Middleton will receive a multiyear contract that will average around $7 million annually; another NBA official predicted Middleton will be paid $8M per year," wrote Gery Woelfel of The (Racine) Journal Times.

He's even more enamored with the franchise and the direction it's headed."This is definitely somewhere I want to be," he says. "Being a young player, you don't want to keep bouncing around the league. I would love to be here if they want me here long term. But it's a business and I understand how these things go sometimes. But this is a place I can definitely see myself for a long time."

No arm-twisting should be needed to make that happen. With key contributors like Carter-Williams, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Jabari Parker still working on their rookie deals, spending money shouldn't be hard to find. O.J. Mayo's $8 million salary is the biggest on the 2015-16 books, and it's set to expire after the season. The Bucks know as well as anyone how valuable Middleton is.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2403791-khris-middleton-primed-to-be-one-of-free-agencys-best-values

[ralphie9898]

Just because Middleton might expendable to the Bucks, doesn't mean they will let him go for nothing. They have been perfectly fine with him playing SG for the majority of the season. They most likely plan on having a lengthy starting 5 of MCW, Middleton, Parker, Giannis and Henson for the foreseeable future. Simply having Parker and Giannis on the team on rookie deals is not a good enough one single reason to let him go.

Trust me Green is also out of reach. If GSW has the choice to keep their 3rd best player, they will keep him.

I am still going after these guys though. I mean why not. At least see if their is interest and yeah if we can get an offer sheet signed yeah we should try. We have plenty of cap space and with the cap going up next year the contracts signed this summer will be pretty reasonable going forward. Even max deals for guys like Deandre Jordan will be a lot less than what guys will get in 2016. I would go all in and try and sign the better young talent. If they match then it is no harm to us. It is possible that they choose not to match. It doesn't happen very often but it can happen and there are a lot of factors that go into it that maybe we as fans just aren't seeing.

We can try but what is point going after guys we have no chance at getting? It's one thing to pursue free agents who can sign wherever they want, but chasing after restricted free agents with teams who know how valuable they are and have the cap to keep them seems like a waste of time and effort.

There is no guarantee that they will match. And the Warriors do not have cap space. They can go over the cap to resign him though. But you don't know what the Warriors or any other team are thinking in regards to their restricted free agents. Restricted guys have left before and it happened last year. It can get more complicated and who knows maybe they have designs elsewhere and may view the offer sheet we sign them too as too much. And there isn't that much to go after. We can multi-task and still go after guys like Deandre Jordan who may not have us on his list but I would still try and see if we can nab him. Or we can still go after guys like Danny Green or Ed Davis or Patrick Beverly or anyone else. It isn't a waste of time to try an get better. I don't think you should ever go into free agency with the midset to not go for higher level guys and settle for whatever. And it can be as simple as putting in a phone call.

[ezzzp]

I am still going after these guys though. I mean why not. At least see if their is interest and yeah if we can get an offer sheet signed yeah we should try. We have plenty of cap space and with the cap going up next year the contracts signed this summer will be pretty reasonable going forward. Even max deals for guys like Deandre Jordan will be a lot less than what guys will get in 2016. I would go all in and try and sign the better young talent. If they match then it is no harm to us. It is possible that they choose not to match. It doesn't happen very often but it can happen and there are a lot of factors that go into it that maybe we as fans just aren't seeing.

We can try but what is point going after guys we have no chance at getting? It's one thing to pursue free agents who can sign wherever they want, but chasing after restricted free agents with teams who know how valuable they are and have the cap to keep them seems like a waste of time and effort.

There is no guarantee that they will match. And the Warriors do not have cap space. They can go over the cap to resign him though. But you don't know what the Warriors or any other team are thinking in regards to their restricted free agents. Restricted guys have left before and it happened last year. It can get more complicated and who knows maybe they have designs elsewhere and may view the offer sheet we sign them too as too much. And there isn't that much to go after. We can multi-task and still go after guys like Deandre Jordan who may not have us on his list but I would still try and see if we can nab him. Or we can still go after guys like Danny Green or Ed Davis or Patrick Beverly or anyone else. It isn't a waste of time to try an get better. I don't think you should ever go into free agency with the midset to not go for higher level guys and settle for whatever. And it can be as simple as putting in a phone call.

Actually its way more complicated than that.

Especially when there is a player that starts at the same position or a when a free agent's role is shopped. Agents talk to reporters to stir up demand and front offices leak information to destabilize other teams. For example, if Hennigan makes a call to Jordan or his agent, there is a very good chance that Vucevic hears about it, and that leads to mistrust between players and front office. Vuc, who just gave the Magic a ridiculous sweetheart deal, would rightly feel this is a major betrayal. That doesn't go away.

GM's have to be very careful, every player knows its a business but respect and trust once lost rarely returns and this impacts everything...regardless of what everyone says to the camera.

In regards to offer sheets, GM's can't just throw offer sheets around as each one has cap implications and it also gives desperate disposition - which isn't what lure's good players to your organization.

[ralphie9898]

We can try but what is point going after guys we have no chance at getting? It's one thing to pursue free agents who can sign wherever they want, but chasing after restricted free agents with teams who know how valuable they are and have the cap to keep them seems like a waste of time and effort.

There is no guarantee that they will match. And the Warriors do not have cap space. They can go over the cap to resign him though. But you don't know what the Warriors or any other team are thinking in regards to their restricted free agents. Restricted guys have left before and it happened last year. It can get more complicated and who knows maybe they have designs elsewhere and may view the offer sheet we sign them too as too much. And there isn't that much to go after. We can multi-task and still go after guys like Deandre Jordan who may not have us on his list but I would still try and see if we can nab him. Or we can still go after guys like Danny Green or Ed Davis or Patrick Beverly or anyone else. It isn't a waste of time to try an get better. I don't think you should ever go into free agency with the midset to not go for higher level guys and settle for whatever. And it can be as simple as putting in a phone call.

Actually its way more complicated than that.

Especially when there is a player that starts at the same position or a when a free agent's role is shopped. Agents talk to reporters to stir up demand and front offices leak information to destabilize other teams. For example, if Hennigan makes a call to Jordan or his agent, there is a very good chance that Vucevic hears about it, and that leads to mistrust between players and front office. Vuc, who just gave the Magic a ridiculous sweetheart deal, would rightly feel this is a major betrayal. That doesn't go away.

GM's have to be very careful, every player knows its a business but respect and trust once lost rarely returns and this impacts everything...regardless of what everyone says to the camera.

In regards to offer sheets, GM's can't just throw offer sheets around as each one has cap implications and it also gives desperate disposition - which isn't what lure's good players to your organization.

Why would Vuc feel that way just because we offered someone else more money. It happens and if Vuc wanted more money than he should have demanded it more. I don't view that as much of a problem if one at all. And of course I never said they can just throw around offer sheets. But they only have cap implications if signed and then if the other team matches those cap implications disappear and we can move on. The first and pretty much only guy I am looking at is Middleton. I like Green and Leonard but not sure they fit what we need as we need shooting plus D and Middleton is a better shooter than those two. So on the outset of free agency I make an offer sheet to Middleton and also call Jordan. If Vuc is mad then so what. It is a business. Vuc is good but I like Jordan a lot more and if you think these guys are going to be expensive wait till next year when these guys deals will go a lot higher, so in actuality these deals very well could be bargains. And we have the cap space to do a lot. I am not saying it is likely we land Jordan and Middleton but I would at least try. Then if not I move on to guys like Green, Ed Davis, Patrick Beverly and Demare Carroll. I am not considering the aging and more expensive guys that much. I am not big on Milsap and guys like Aldridge are definitely not going to have us on their radar.

[Viper1500]

Anyone who thinks going into next season with a re-signed Harris, player growth, and our pick and somehow magically will make the playoffs is crazy. This team is barley better than NY & LA, who will most likely be spending a lot of money this off season, Philly will improve with the addition of Embidd and a healthy Minnesota makes Orlando arguably the worst team in the NBA. I can't see Orlando being better than any team out there except maybe Sacramento and Philly assuming they don't make a splash in free agency.

[ezzzp]

Why would Vuc feel that way just because we offered someone else more money. It happens and if Vuc wanted more money than he should have demanded it more. I don't view that as much of a problem if one at all. And of course I never said they can just throw around offer sheets. But they only have cap implications if signed and then if the other team matches those cap implications disappear and we can move on. The first and pretty much only guy I am looking at is Middleton. I like Green and Leonard but not sure they fit what we need as we need shooting plus D and Middleton is a better shooter than those two. So on the outset of free agency I make an offer sheet to Middleton and also call Jordan.

If Vuc is mad then so what. It is a business. Vuc is good but I like Jordan a lot more and if you think these guys are going to be expensive wait till next year when these guys deals will go a lot higher, so in actuality these deals very well could be bargains. And we have the cap space to do a lot. I am not saying it is likely we land Jordan and Middleton but I would at least try. Then if not I move on to guys like Green, Ed Davis, Patrick Beverly and Demare Carroll. I am not considering the aging and more expensive guys that much. I am not big on Milsap and guys like Aldridge are definitely not going to have us on their radar.

Ok, you are envisioning Vuc and Jordan playing together - that makes more sense. My comment was based on Jordan pushing Vuc to a back up role (or trading block). I actually like the idea of them playing together, not sure if it will work (but it kind of works with Dedmond who is similar).

Im pretty sure an offer sheet is a signed contract that has to fit within the cap space and puts a cap hold on that amount until it is matched or not. This prevents teams from putting out multiple offer sheets that they have no intention of honoring as a disruptive strategy.

[nicnac215]

Anyone who thinks going into next season with a re-signed Harris, player growth, and our pick and somehow magically will make the playoffs is crazy. This team is barley better than NY & LA, who will most likely be spending a lot of money this off season, Philly will improve with the addition of Embidd and a healthy Minnesota makes Orlando arguably the worst team in the NBA. I can't see Orlando being better than any team out there except maybe Sacramento and Philly assuming they don't make a splash in free agency.

Assuming no major injuries, you are out of your mind with your visions. Arguably the worst in the league? You must only look at the win/loss and not how the team plays. Get a legitimate coach and a few savvy veterans and you have a serious up and coming team. The Magic are trending upward. I, like many others think we should target Beverly this off season unless we draft Mudiay or Russell. Beverly could teach a lot of things to Elf that can really make him a defensive gem. Get this negative thinking out of here.

[ralphie9898]

Why would Vuc feel that way just because we offered someone else more money. It happens and if Vuc wanted more money than he should have demanded it more. I don't view that as much of a problem if one at all. And of course I never said they can just throw around offer sheets. But they only have cap implications if signed and then if the other team matches those cap implications disappear and we can move on. The first and pretty much only guy I am looking at is Middleton. I like Green and Leonard but not sure they fit what we need as we need shooting plus D and Middleton is a better shooter than those two. So on the outset of free agency I make an offer sheet to Middleton and also call Jordan.

If Vuc is mad then so what. It is a business. Vuc is good but I like Jordan a lot more and if you think these guys are going to be expensive wait till next year when these guys deals will go a lot higher, so in actuality these deals very well could be bargains. And we have the cap space to do a lot. I am not saying it is likely we land Jordan and Middleton but I would at least try. Then if not I move on to guys like Green, Ed Davis, Patrick Beverly and Demare Carroll. I am not considering the aging and more expensive guys that much. I am not big on Milsap and guys like Aldridge are definitely not going to have us on their radar.

Ok, you are envisioning Vuc and Jordan playing together - that makes more sense. My comment was based on Jordan pushing Vuc to a back up role (or trading block). I actually like the idea of them playing together, not sure if it will work (but it kind of works with Dedmond who is similar).

Im pretty sure an offer sheet is a signed contract that has to fit within the cap space and puts a cap hold on that amount until it is matched or not. This prevents teams from putting out multiple offer sheets that they have no intention of honoring as a disruptive strategy.

Uh no I do not envision them playing together. They are both pure centers as I don't think either can effectively play the PF spot. If we sign Jordan then I would look to trade Vuc. In the meantime if we can't trade Vuc right away I think Vuc backs up Jordan which isn't ideal but I think Vuc has enough trade value that a deal could be had at least by the trade deadline next year. Its a business and we can't worry too much about player's feelings as we need to get better. With the cap going up next year this is a prime time to get guys on what would be bargain deals going forward. We have the cap space and I have opened up to going hard after the best players out there because of that. Though I am not interested in the older guys like Milsap as I don't want guys nearing the end of their careers and not be as effective going forward.

[ralphie9898]

Anyone who thinks going into next season with a re-signed Harris, player growth, and our pick and somehow magically will make the playoffs is crazy. This team is barley better than NY & LA, who will most likely be spending a lot of money this off season, Philly will improve with the addition of Embidd and a healthy Minnesota makes Orlando arguably the worst team in the NBA. I can't see Orlando being better than any team out there except maybe Sacramento and Philly assuming they don't make a splash in free agency.

Assuming no major injuries, you are out of your mind with your visions. Arguably the worst in the league? You must only look at the win/loss and not how the team plays. Get a legitimate coach and a few savvy veterans and you have a serious up and coming team. The Magic are trending upward. I, like many others think we should target Beverly this off season unless we draft Mudiay or Russell. Beverly could teach a lot of things to Elf that can really make him a defensive gem. Get this negative thinking out of here.

Maybe maybe not. I remember telling a lot of people on that we very well wouldn't be that good. We very well could be very close to where we are now. People were telling me we were going to challenge for a playoffs and people wouldn't be surprised if we made the playoffs. That Vuc and Harris and everybody would improve. Well yes we got a little better but not that much better and have the 5th worst record. Wins and losses count a lot more than potential. Yes I see us getting better but just adding a guy like Beverly and a high drfat pick, I don't think that moves us that much further up. I think we would still be in the lottery though maybe more in the later half but still not sure we are that much better with Beverly. I do like Beverly as a good backup PG going forward. And who knows as our guys still have potential to get better but until realized potential doesn't actually mean much.