How long till Orlando wins a title?

Max Power · Post #21 » by **Max Power** » Sat May 30, 2015 6:58 am

We'll all be dead when the Magic win their first championship.

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drsd · Post #22 » by **drsd** » Sat May 30, 2015 7:25 am

MagicFan101 wrote:When was the last time a team won a title without AT LEAST one bono fide super star? We have the makings for a fantastic supporting cast with a few guys capable of being a legit #2 side-kick, but until we find that super star we should not discuss titles.

The Pistons' title in 2003–04.

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Ducklett · Post #23 » by **Ducklett** » Sat May 30, 2015 8:18 am

Max Power wrote:We'll all be dead when the Magic win their first championship.

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Sadly, this may be more likely than the poll options.

KingRobb02 · Post #24 » by **KingRobb02** » Sat May 30, 2015 10:56 am

drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:When was the last time a team won a title without AT LEAST one bono fide super star? We have the makings for a fantastic supporting cast with a few guys capable of being a legit #2 side-kick, but until we find that super star we should not discuss titles.

The Pistons' title in 2003–04.

..

Assuming that you agree that defense matters, Ben Wallace was a superstar. The last no-superstar champs were the 89 Pistons.

BadMofoPimp · Post #25 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Sat May 30, 2015 1:43 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
drsd wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:When was the last time a team won a title without AT LEAST one bono fide super star? We have the makings for a fantastic supporting cast with a few guys capable of being a legit #2 side-kick, but until we find that super star we should not discuss titles.

The Pistons' title in 2003–04.

..

Assuming that you agree that defense matters, Ben Wallace was a superstar. The last no-superstar champs were the 89 Pistons.

Isaiah Thomas is a top 50 player all time and at the time arguably the 2nd best player in the entire league at that time.

KingRobb02 · Post #26 » by **KingRobb02** » Sat May 30, 2015 1:52 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
drsd wrote:
The Pistons' title in 2003–04.

..

Assuming that you agree that defense matters, Ben Wallace was a superstar. The last no-superstar champs were the 89 Pistons.

Isaiah Thomas is a top 50 player all time and at the time arguably the 2nd best player in the entire league at that time.

You would be alone on that argument. He didn't make an all nba team in either of the championship years. After 1987, he basically became Steph Marbury. 18 and 8 on poor shooting. He was their most famous player, but not a superstar.

BadMofoPimp · Post #27 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Sat May 30, 2015 1:56 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:Assuming that you agree that defense matters, Ben Wallace was a superstar. The last no-superstar champs were the 89 Pistons.

Isaiah Thomas is a top 50 player all time and at the time arguably the 2nd best player in the entire league at that time.

You would be alone on that argument. He didn't make an all nba team in either of the championship years. After 1987, he basically became Steph Marbury. 18 and 8 on poor shooting. He was their most famous player, but not a superstar.

Do your homework. Zeke was an all-star BOTH seasons and was an excellent defensive player. Actually, numbers don't show how important he was to the game and you have to actually watch the games he played in to understand his brilliance as a player. You have no clue what you are talking about if you are basing a players importance based off PPG and APG only. Clueless.

Some Pro Analysts name him best PG all time. He is top 10 PG on just about every pro analysts list. For instance:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/the-top-10-greatest-nba-point-guards-of-all-time.html/?a=viewall

Jiwol · Post #28 » by **Jiwol** » Sat May 30, 2015 1:57 pm

Trying to be realistic with this one but the OP missed the option "NEVER"...

Max Power · Post #29 » by **Max Power** » Sat May 30, 2015 2:10 pm

To suggest Isiah Thomas wasn't a superstar is absurd. The '89 Pistons had 3 Hall of Famers on it. Thomas could dominate games as well as any player in his generation. Now, Thomas was about as likable as a baseball bat to the crotch, but he was a superstar through and through. We haven't even mentioned just how good Joe Dumars was yet.

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KingRobb02 · Post #30 » by **KingRobb02** » Sat May 30, 2015 2:16 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is a top 50 player all time and at the time arguably the 2nd best player in the entire league at that time.

You would be alone on that argument. He didn't make an all nba team in either of the championship years. After 1987, he basically became Steph Marbury. 18 and 8 on poor shooting. He was their most famous player, but not a superstar.

Do your homework. Zeke was an all-star BOTH seasons and was an excellent defensive player. Actually, numbers don't show how important he was to the game and you have to actually watch the games he played in to understand his brilliance as a player. You have no clue what you are talking about if you are basing a players importance based off PPG and APG only. Clueless.

Some Pro Analysts name him best PG all time. He is top 10 PG on just about every pro analysts list. For instance:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/the-top-10-greatest-nba-point-guards-of-all-time.html/?a=viewall

Learn to read. I said all nba. Plus he was nowhere near great defensively. No one calls him the best pg of all time. I'm not denying he was great in his prime. I'm just saying that by 89, that prime was gone. This is like people arguing that the 2015 Lakers have a superstar in Kobe Bryant.

I'm not judging based on stats. I'm judging based on having a team that just won a championship not having enough respect from the people who cover basketball for a living to say that any of them are all nba worthy.

KingRobb02 · Post #31 » by **KingRobb02** » Sat May 30, 2015 2:22 pm

Max Power wrote:To suggest Isiah Thomas wasn't a superstar is absurd. The '89 Pistons had 3 Hall of Famers on it. Thomas could dominate games as well as any player in his generation. Now, Thomas was about as likable as a baseball bat to the crotch, but he was a superstar through and through. We haven't even mentioned just how good Joe Dumars was yet.

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My argument is that the Pistons were great 1 through 8. None of them were individually life changing that year though. Zee was there formerly and Rodman would get there a couple years later, but in 88 they were all above average to very good. None were what we would call a superstar by today's standard. The 2005 had a guy on an all nba team which means one of the top 15 guys alive. The 88 and 89 teams can't make that claim.

MiltownHawkeye · Post #32 » by **MiltownHawkeye** » Sat May 30, 2015 2:41 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
Max Power wrote:To suggest Isiah Thomas wasn't a superstar is absurd. The '89 Pistons had 3 Hall of Famers on it. Thomas could dominate games as well as any player in his generation. Now, Thomas was about as likable as a baseball bat to the crotch, but he was a superstar through and through. We haven't even mentioned just how good Joe Dumars was yet.

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My argument is that the Pistons were great 1 through 8. None of them were individually life changing that year though. Zee was there formerly and Rodman would get there a couple years later, but in 88 they were all above average to very good. None were what we would call a superstar by today's standard. The 2005 had a guy on an all nba team which means one of the top 15 guys alive. The 88 and 89 teams can't make that claim.

Someone should tell DeAndre Jordan and Pau Gasol the good news.

LBPTarHeel27 · Post #33 » by **LBPTarHeel27** » Sat May 30, 2015 3:10 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:Assuming that you agree that defense matters, Ben Wallace was a superstar. The last no-superstar champs were the 89 Pistons.

Isaiah Thomas is a top 50 player all time and at the time arguably the 2nd best player in the entire league at that time.

You would be alone on that argument. He didn't make an all nba team in either of the championship years. After 1987, he basically became Steph Marbury. 18 and 8 on poor shooting. He was their most famous player, but not a superstar.

HEY! Steph Marbury was All-NBA. Don't compare him to that trash, Isaiah Thomas!

KingRobb02 · Post #34 » by **KingRobb02** » Sat May 30, 2015 3:13 pm

MiltownHawkeye wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
Max Power wrote:To suggest Isiah Thomas wasn't a superstar is absurd. The '89 Pistons had 3 Hall of Famers on it. Thomas could dominate games as well as any player in his generation. Now, Thomas was about as likable as a baseball bat to the crotch, but he was a superstar through and through. We haven't even mentioned just how good Joe Dumars was yet.

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My argument is that the Pistons were great 1 through 8. None of them were individually life changing that year though. Zee was there formerly and Rodman would get there a couple years later, but in 88 they were all above average to very good. None were what we would call a superstar by today's standard. The 2005 had a guy on an all nba team which means one of the top 15 guys alive. The 88 and 89 teams can't make that claim.

Someone should tell DeAndre Jordan and Pau Gasol the good news.

Wait... you don't think Deandre is a top 15 player?

Better yet, in 25 years will people be looking back at the 2015 Lakers and saying that Kobe Bryant was a superstar?

Post #35 » by **MagicMadness** » Sat May 30, 2015 4:06 pm

How long till Orlando becomes mediocre?

Then we can go from there..

Post #36 » by **UCF** » Sat May 30, 2015 4:15 pm

If they win in my lifetime I'll be surprised

drsd · Post #37 » by **drsd** » Sun May 31, 2015 8:56 am

KingRobb02 wrote:You would be alone on that argument. He didn't make an all nba team in either of the championship years. After 1987, he basically became Steph Marbury. 18 and 8 on poor shooting. He was their most famous player, but not a superstar.

Isiah Lord Thomas III was a 12 time All star, was named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History, and was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a first-ballot choice. I really do not know what more a player's CV needs to say to qualify as "Super Star."

..

KingRobb02 · Post #38 » by **KingRobb02** » Sun May 31, 2015 10:23 am

drsd wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:You would be alone on that argument. He didn't make an all nba team in either of the championship years. After 1987, he basically became Steph Marbury. 18 and 8 on poor shooting. He was their most famous player, but not a superstar.

Isiah Lord Thomas III was a 12 time All star, was named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History, and was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a first-ballot choice. I really do not know what more a player's CV needs to say to qualify as "Super Star."

..

Is the current version of Dirk a superstar to you? I say no. Players enter and leave superstar level as their career progresses. Thomas was great in the early 80s, but by 89 those days were gone.

Post #39 » by **Bensational** » Sun May 31, 2015 2:14 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
drsd wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:You would be alone on that argument. He didn't make an all nba team in either of the championship years. After 1987, he basically became Steph Marbury. 18 and 8 on poor shooting. He was their most famous player, but not a superstar.

Isiah Lord Thomas III was a 12 time All star, was named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History, and was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a first-ballot choice. I really do not know what more a player's CV needs to say to qualify as "Super Star."

..

Is the current version of Dirk a superstar to you? I say no. Players enter and leave superstar level as their career progresses. Thomas was great in the early 80s, but by 89 those days were gone.

i get what you're saying, but Spurs won last year and all they had was Tony Parker on the 2nd All NBA team. that would imply he was the mvp of their team last season, but i wouldn't say that was the case come playoffs. maybe regular season, but in the playoffs it was still Timmy D who was carrying the load, with strong effort from all of Parker, Manu, Kawhi and Green.

i think that even aged superstars still pose a threat, especially in the playoffs when they know they just have to turn it on for x amount of games.

Post #40 » by **Bensational** » Sun May 31, 2015 2:21 pm

at this point, i don't feel like we have anyone that can put this team on their back and carry us to contention.

i'm just hoping that we're like the 08-09 Grizzlies. i'm sure back then they weren't confident they'd contend any time soon, despite having rookie Marc Gasol, Gay, Mayo and Conley. i'm not sure baby Gasol was looking like DPOTY material in those early days (even though he was 24), so maybe Vuc can make a curve like that under a proper defensive coach?

that summer they signed ZBo and two years later they were in the 2nd round. 4 years later they lost the conference finals.

When does the Magic win an NBA title?