Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
Hezonja to me looked like the most complete overall player AND has equal - if not better - upside than either Porzingis or Winslow. Plus Porzingis was not on the board when the Magic picked - blaming RH for not taking him is as pointless as blaming him for not picking KAT.
Winslow vs Hezonja:
Both are said to have great work ethic and be fierce competitors.
Hezonja has been playing vs full grown professionally seasoned men for three years - a good amount that have played in the NBA and on national teams. Winslow has been battle tested vs teenagers of which 99% of them will never play a single minute professionally anywhere in the planet.
Both players are already physically ready for the NBA. But as the cliche goes: "you can't teach height." Hezonja is 6-8 215 with elite athleticism and a very solid frame that will only get stronger with NBA level trainers and natural maturation. Winslow also has a solid frame and athleticism but measures 6-4.5 w/o and 6-6 with shoes.
Winslow has been focusing on his defense and Hezonja on his offense...both can work at getting better on their respective weakness.
The majority of Winslow's success offensively (and often on defense as well) was primarily related to his body's more advanced maturity over less physically matured or capable players. That will not happen in the NBA and will actually often be inverted where he is the smaller guy. Hezonja, on the other hand, will be able to see - pass and shoot - over most of his defenders at either wing position.
Defensively, Winslow has a long wingspan so on that end his height shouldn't be an issue in the NBA...Hezonja is just as long as Winslow but with the added height mass - making it hard for smaller players to see around him.
Winslow vs Hezonja:
Both are said to have great work ethic and be fierce competitors.
Hezonja has been playing vs full grown professionally seasoned men for three years - a good amount that have played in the NBA and on national teams. Winslow has been battle tested vs teenagers of which 99% of them will never play a single minute professionally anywhere in the planet.
Both players are already physically ready for the NBA. But as the cliche goes: "you can't teach height." Hezonja is 6-8 215 with elite athleticism and a very solid frame that will only get stronger with NBA level trainers and natural maturation. Winslow also has a solid frame and athleticism but measures 6-4.5 w/o and 6-6 with shoes.
Winslow has been focusing on his defense and Hezonja on his offense...both can work at getting better on their respective weakness.
The majority of Winslow's success offensively (and often on defense as well) was primarily related to his body's more advanced maturity over less physically matured or capable players. That will not happen in the NBA and will actually often be inverted where he is the smaller guy. Hezonja, on the other hand, will be able to see - pass and shoot - over most of his defenders at either wing position.
Defensively, Winslow has a long wingspan so on that end his height shouldn't be an issue in the NBA...Hezonja is just as long as Winslow but with the added height mass - making it hard for smaller players to see around him.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
Too much duplication with Winslow. Miami fans will love him though just like we love Elfrid, Aaron, etc. despite their challenges.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
I wanted WCS but will live with the pick. I'm not dumb enough to make predictions on guys I haven't seen play. My only issue is that the the team still needs an answer for the interior of the defense. Maybe they have another way of addressing that before training camp.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
I'll tell you one thing. This is the second year in a row where we were led to believe a certain player was our primary target, and we ended up taking a guy who we hadn't heard the Magic associated with much. Last year Aaron came out of nowhere. This year we heard the Magic in consideration to take Hezonja, but we didn't really hear about years of scouting him, multiple interviews, trips to see him overseas, etc.
Hennigan keeps a tight lid. And I'm just going to stop trying to predict who we'll take, lol. Of course I say that now, and next year I'll be adamant in who we're going to take.
Hennigan keeps a tight lid. And I'm just going to stop trying to predict who we'll take, lol. Of course I say that now, and next year I'll be adamant in who we're going to take.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
UCFJayBird wrote:I'll tell you one thing. This is the second year in a row where we were led to believe a certain player was our primary target, and we ended up taking a guy who we hadn't heard the Magic associated with much. Last year Aaron came out of nowhere. This year we heard the Magic in consideration to take Hezonja, but we didn't really hear about years of scouting him, multiple interviews, trips to see him overseas, etc.
Hennigan keeps a tight lid. And I'm just going to stop trying to predict who we'll take, lol. Of course I say that now, and next year I'll be adamant in who we're going to take.
One of many reasons why I respect the heck out of Rob is he and his team are so organized, strategic and keep things to themselves. They seem to be really, really smart basketball minds. Great group.
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
fendilim wrote:p0peye wrote:fendilim wrote:I think they were more of laughing due to the reaction of the fans.
Could be that too.
I would say it is because the reaction of our front office people weren't surprised when it was announced the Knicks would be picking KP. It was more after, unless all of them have late reactions
I was watching a LSH stream in paralel with our war room and latter had significant delay (evident if you pay attention to what was happening on the screens in the room). I may be wrong, but my impression was that guys on the left jumped and laughed the moment pick was announced on the screens in the war room, which was some time after pick announcement happend on LSH stream.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
If Orlando's FO is high on Porzingis and NY doesn't make an offer for Tobias as a RFA, there could be a sign-and-trade scenario like:
Orl: Kristaps + Calderon (2 years, $7M+)
NY: Harris (for this exercise, say $14M)
Salary fillers and whatever to get things to match...
New York gets a 22-year old who can contribute immediately and into the future, Melo's friend, and a hometown hero the media can spin as Bernard King 2.0 (for the story line of Tennessee players returning home... not paralleling their skills). Since point guards aren't as vital to the triangle, Jerian Grant's rookie scale contract allows the team to improve their defense while shedding salary.
Orlando gambles on a boom/bust project that at the very least spaces the floor (Porzingis), short-term help (Calderon as a second unit distributor), and cap flexibility (Calderon's contract expires in 2017). With Porzingis and Gordon, that's two players that aren't ready to contribute immediately, but it's a swing for the fence move arising from a something from nothing situation.
Do I want this to happen? I really don't care. Mario was the guy I wanted, so I'm happy. But I'd prefer the above scenario instead of trading #5 + assets and losing Tobias for nothing. I don't see the Magic retaining Harris long-term, otherwise why wouldn't they have renegotiated what would have potentially been a cheaper extension last year?
Orl: Kristaps + Calderon (2 years, $7M+)
NY: Harris (for this exercise, say $14M)
Salary fillers and whatever to get things to match...
New York gets a 22-year old who can contribute immediately and into the future, Melo's friend, and a hometown hero the media can spin as Bernard King 2.0 (for the story line of Tennessee players returning home... not paralleling their skills). Since point guards aren't as vital to the triangle, Jerian Grant's rookie scale contract allows the team to improve their defense while shedding salary.
Orlando gambles on a boom/bust project that at the very least spaces the floor (Porzingis), short-term help (Calderon as a second unit distributor), and cap flexibility (Calderon's contract expires in 2017). With Porzingis and Gordon, that's two players that aren't ready to contribute immediately, but it's a swing for the fence move arising from a something from nothing situation.
Do I want this to happen? I really don't care. Mario was the guy I wanted, so I'm happy. But I'd prefer the above scenario instead of trading #5 + assets and losing Tobias for nothing. I don't see the Magic retaining Harris long-term, otherwise why wouldn't they have renegotiated what would have potentially been a cheaper extension last year?
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
- tooler
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
Properly paid or overpaid sub-supermax players don't have any trade value per se. There's no way New York would trade its #4 pick on a cheap 4-year rookie deal just to get rid of Calderon's contract.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
http://www.nba.com/magic/news/orlando-magic-draft-grades-around-web
Read this and you should find your answer!!!
Read this and you should find your answer!!!
orthoman wrote:I may get blasted for asking this question..but was wondering if anyone has heard our GM comment on his strategy
on not taking one of these guys. IMO, Prozingas would have been a better pick....he's a capable rim protector
and scorer. We have some assets we could have traded/moved up to #4 to get him....why didn't we?
Just curious? I'm sure Hezonga will be a decent player...a role player...but, all-star...I'm not sure?
As I've said before, our GM gets paid millions to be a genius at this time of year, and bold moves creates championship teams.
I just don't see Mario as being a potential all-star, but I may very well be wrong. It doesn't take alot of genius to
pick a player than can shoot a basketball.
Thoughts?
Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
"Our GM gets paid MILLIONS to be a GENIUS" That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever read on here. Nobody proclaimed Hennigan a genius and I seriously doubt he makes "millions". He might make a mil per year but I doubt it.
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
wish there was a way to ask people to let this thread drop to the second page without actually posting in it...
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
ivDT wrote:wish there was a way to ask people to let this thread drop to the second page without actually posting in it...
If everybody starts posting "in before the lock" pics/gifs then it would probably get locked pretty quickly... otherwise it will stay on the front for a while.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
I kinda like the feel to our team now, shooting was one thing we really needed, and us not knowing the whole Tobes situation, but I will say this Hezonja is going to be entertaining thats for sure, love the cockiness he has we need something like that to our team. I also like the mi of European players we have on our team, MariOTOWN, Vooch, and More Chapagne. Can't wait to see what we get in FA hopefully Jameer will comeback as a backup point, and we get rim protector 4
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
well time to lock this up then?
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
I am happy with the Hezonja pick and am looking forward to seeing him play.
I am ecstatic that we did not trade up for Porzingis...I am not feeling that kid at all.
Winslow could turn out to be a star, and like a previous poster said, if not for our current makeup he may have been the correct choice.
I am intrigued by the reports of the offers that Boston was making to move up...I am not 100% certain turning them down was the right move.
I am ecstatic that we did not trade up for Porzingis...I am not feeling that kid at all.
Winslow could turn out to be a star, and like a previous poster said, if not for our current makeup he may have been the correct choice.
I am intrigued by the reports of the offers that Boston was making to move up...I am not 100% certain turning them down was the right move.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
- Super_Mario_3
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
Porzingis is NOT better than Hezonja.
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06/18/mitnick-kristaps-porzingis-is-not-a-top-five-pick/
Very good read.
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06/18/mitnick-kristaps-porzingis-is-not-a-top-five-pick/
Very good read.
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
orthoman wrote:We have some assets we could have traded/moved up to #4 to get him....why didn't we?
Maybe it's time to back off on NBA2K?
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
Ballah wrote:"Hennigan didn't pick who i wanted therefore he is wrong."
Honestly, after so many times where Hennigan took a guy that nobody valued and ended up looking like a genius my mindset is basically "Hennigan didn't pick who i wanted therefore I was wrong"
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
I do trust Henny in doing getting the right prospect, but I would have thought Winslow or Stanley would have been more suitable for a SF.
One thing that bugs me are Hezonja's weaknesses. All of them elude to a lone wolf mentality which removes him from the team play.
This team is designed around team play so why pick this guy?
He is listed as a JR Smith type player, that to me is not a top 5 or for that matter a lottery pick.
If he relies on just chucking the ball and does not play within the team it will be a waste of a pick.
Other weaknesses are his defense and high TO rate. Apparently he barely relies on his left arm??? wth is that all about.
Anyway, not really expecting a lot from this guy. I would have preferred WCS to answer the interior defense needs.
Here is an article where at the bottom it lists his strengths and weaknesses.
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/18/8793459/mario-hezonja-nba-draft-scouting-report-cocky
One thing that bugs me are Hezonja's weaknesses. All of them elude to a lone wolf mentality which removes him from the team play.
This team is designed around team play so why pick this guy?
He is listed as a JR Smith type player, that to me is not a top 5 or for that matter a lottery pick.
If he relies on just chucking the ball and does not play within the team it will be a waste of a pick.
Other weaknesses are his defense and high TO rate. Apparently he barely relies on his left arm??? wth is that all about.
Anyway, not really expecting a lot from this guy. I would have preferred WCS to answer the interior defense needs.
Here is an article where at the bottom it lists his strengths and weaknesses.
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/18/8793459/mario-hezonja-nba-draft-scouting-report-cocky
Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
- MagicStarwipe
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Re: Why did we not take Porzingas or Winslow?
I've watched 2 of his highest scoring games from this year and one thing I saw was he didn't try to force the issue and was more than willing to move the ball. Was even unselfish on the break. That's just 2 games though.