The Elfrid Payton thread

Blue_and_Whte · Post #1 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:01 pm

Last season Elf seemed to be on the cusp of being one of the best PGs in the nba and one of the best players on this team. For some odd reason summer league holds a much water as back to back triple doubles in an actual nba game when judging a players improvement. Discuss.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP86tVoKgGU[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E8W78P1hEM[/youtube]

Neon1 · Post #2 » by **Neon1** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:14 pm

We needed this. I just responded to some long convo about Elfrid, then once it posted I am seeing it's the Gordon thread, he has taken that thread over somehow.

Optimus_Steel · Post #3 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:32 pm

Elf had an off summer league, 2 games really he played so tiny sample size, I would not jump to conclusions because not only do these games not count but he has 82 regular season games of sample size saying he is really good. Now the talk about Elf getting benched is hilarious.

MAGICian619 · Post #4 » by **MAGICian619** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:32 pm

EP is the truth and will be the biggest reason why this team succeeds.

AddiFB · Post #5 » by **AddiFB** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:41 pm

I think his mentality is that he doesn't care about SL because it doesn't matter and he won't risk getting injured during meaningless games. He's much better in real games and specially late in games. He had a good SL last season as a rookie wanting to prove himself but it feels like this year he's past that and he's focused on the NBA season itself.

OrlandO · Post #6 » by **OrlandO** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:41 pm

It's only a few people right now, but get used to it. Some start turning on players if they're not all stars by year 2 or 3.

Post #7 » by **UCFJayBird** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:43 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:Elf had an off summer league, 2 games really he played so tiny sample size, I would not jump to conclusions because not only do these games not count but he has 82 regular season games of sample size saying he is really good. Now the talk about Elf getting benched is hilarious.

not concerned about him at all. He's rebuilding his shot, so it'd make sense that he'd be less aggressive and not want to exert himself too much. He also knows he's the starter, so there's no point in him going all out and risking injury, especially the way he plays which is usually going to the rim. It would be against guys who are being a little reckless because they need to prove themselves.

Gordon didn't play much last year, it makes sense why he would be busting his butt trying to show his improvements. Elfrid clearly did not want to be out there. The few times he DID engage he played well.

Neon1 · Post #8 » by **Neon1** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 12:57 pm

OrlandO wrote:It's only a few people right now, but get used to it. Some start turning on players if they're not all stars by year 2 or 3.

It has nothing to do with that, it happens in year 2-3 because each year there is a shiny new rookie to overhype, so all the faults that the player had become illuminated and highlighted once the rookie googles are placed on the newest object of affection.

I have been telling you guys this three years now. Harkless, Oladipo now its going to be Payton and/or AG depending on how he plays this year.

Dgbarnes · Post #9 » by **Dgbarnes** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:14 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:Last season Elf seemed to be on the cusp of being one of the best PGs in the nba and one of the best players on this team. For some odd reason summer league holds a much water as back to back triple doubles in an actual nba game when judging a players improvment. Discuss.

Videos to follow...

Just my 2 cents

My thought is that we're running a slightly different offense in these summer league games. It seems like a lot of plays are starting with Elf and then being run through AG to give him reps on the offensive side.

Where in the regular season we saw a lot of high PnR with Vuc and Frye, which would typically present opportunities for Elf to get assists or points near the basket.

OrlandO · Post #10 » by **OrlandO** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:15 pm

Neon1 wrote:
OrlandO wrote:It's only a few people right now, but get used to it. Some start turning on players if they're not all stars by year 2 or 3.

It has nothing to do with that, it happens in year 2-3 because each year there is a shiny new rookie to overhype, so all the faults that the player had become illuminated and highlighted once the rookie googles are placed on the newest object of affection.

I have been telling you guys this three years now. Harkless, Oladipo now its going to be Payton and/or AG depending on how he plays this year.

Shiny new toy has a lot to do with it, but so does a lack of patience. And it's not just rookies... Harris and Vuc got the same treatment.

Rick Rolled · Post #11 » by **Rick Rolled** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:24 pm

Neon1 wrote:
OrlandO wrote:It's only a few people right now, but get used to it. Some start turning on players if they're not all stars by year 2 or 3.

It has nothing to do with that, it happens in year 2-3 because each year there is a shiny new rookie to overhype, so all the faults that the player had become illuminated and highlighted once the rookie googles are placed on the newest object of affection.

I have been telling you guys this three years now. Harkless, Oladipo now its going to be Payton and/or AG depending on how he plays this year.

And it usually isn't even an NBA caliber player.....

Why aren't we playing DeQuan Jones more?
Why aren't we playing DeAndre Liggins more?
Osby is going to be a star, why the hell did we cut him?
Seth Curry can spread the floor in a way Payton could only dream of.
Michael Bradley will dunk on your grandmother.

GameOver25 · Post #12 » by **GameOver25** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:26 pm

Elf was totally disinterested and not focused during Summer League. He had nothing to play for.

Neon1 · Post #13 » by **Neon1** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:28 pm

OrlandO wrote:
Neon1 wrote:
OrlandO wrote:It's only a few people right now, but get used to it. Some start turning on players if they're not all stars by year 2 or 3.

It has nothing to do with that, it happens in year 2-3 because each year there is a shiny new rookie to overhype, so all the faults that the player had become illuminated and highlighted once the rookie googles are placed on the newest object of affection.

I have been telling you guys this three years now. Harkless, Oladipo now its going to be Payton and/or AG depending on how he plays this year.

Shiny new toy has a lot to do with it, but so does a lack of patience. And it's not just rookies... Harris and Vuc got the same treatment.

Harris and Vuc never got the same hype as our 1 round rookies did. Harris and Vuc had what Oladipo and now seemingly Payton are now getting (the questions about ability) from the jump. Especially Tobias, because he was seen as "being in the way" of that years round rookie toy in Moe Harkless. Neither one were here on this team here for us to watch them walk their 1st steps in the NBA, so they never had that honeymoon period or rookie high as far as fans go.

They were immediately into the assessment stage from the beginning because the 1st round rookie excitement (and benefit of the doubt that comes with it) was not there with them like it was for Moe, Oladipo, Aaron, Payton and Mario had/have.

OrlandoDream · Post #14 » by **OrlandoDream** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:35 pm

Seriously? Its just summer league. I know we all want to believe that AG and Mario are going to be stars next year bc of summer league play, but remember last year? Tony Snell and Glenn Rice Jr were SL superstars. Season? They were both almost full time DNPs.

Part of me thinks that Elf doesnt even take SL serious. He is saving it for the season. This should not be an argument with the way he finished his rookie season. The man was all rookie first team, made history by getting back-to-back triple doubles, and played every single game injury free. Elf is going to have a big sophmore year. Wait and see.

mattorl1220 · Post #15 » by **mattorl1220** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:52 pm

I think we need to take Elfrid off the pedestal as well. He is what he is. A big Point Guard who has great vision, penetration and passing skills. The turnovers will diminish with experience and his shot will improve. Will be a Steph Curry? My guess no prob a lot more like Rondo. I know everyone is down on Rondo but the last few years before his injuries he really started to have at least a semi effective mid-range jumper. What Rob is building is not a team with a one star and role players and even if he was there is no doubt in my mind Elfrid would not be our star.

I cannot preach this enough but the average fan cares only about numbers and I guarantee you will not be impressed by his numbers as far as points go. What we need from Elf is a hard nosed defensive guard who can terrorize the oppsing PG (Dragic,Kemba,Teague,Wall) and that is just out division!!! and a PG who can get the ball to our players in the right spots so that they can succeed.

All in all I really like Payton and I believe Skiles will engrain into him that he is a facilitator first and scoring is not a priority.

fendilim · Post #16 » by **fendilim** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 1:55 pm

Usage.

Elf needs the ball.

Blue_and_Whte · Post #17 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 2:22 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:Seriously? Its just summer league. I know we all want to believe that AG and Mario are going to be stars next year bc of summer league play, but remember last year? Tony Snell and Glenn Rice Jr were SL superstars. Season? They were both almost full time DNPs.

Part of me thinks that Elf doesnt even take SL serious. He is saving it for the season. This should not be an argument with the way he finished his rookie season. The man was all rookie first team, made history by getting back-to-back triple doubles, and played every single game injury free. Elf is going to have a big sophmore year. Wait and see.

Well we're talking about the 4th and 5th picks respectively so its a little different imo but overall I agree. People take summer league to seriously.

Post #18 » by **ChosenSavior** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 2:51 pm

Elf has shown he can play at this level and do it extremely well. Not even worried about him. His body language seemed like he was just going through the motions and wanted to set others up offensively. When the games actually count, he will be ready.

OrlDave · Post #19 » by **OrlDave** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 3:18 pm

It's no surprise Elf got better as the season wore on last year. He's a passer through and through and chemistry is absolutely crucial for delivering perfect passes. I wouldn't worry about him.

This is why our team will be better this year, the overall chemistry of another year together (plus individual improvements of course). All we really added was Mario and 2 backups.

purpleswordfish · Post #20 » by **purpleswordfish** » Thu Jul 9, 2015 4:12 pm

He really didn't have any reason to play in the Summer League, and I think people were expecting him to light it up. But, he can't shoot. One summer isn't going to fix a shot as poor as his and he has a long way to go. He's the starter this year, though.