Rebuild Challenge - Portland style

[Bensational]

I quite like what Portland and Charlotte are doing with their rebuilds - picking up some young guys who have underperformed or are underdeveloped relative to their potential, and have become lost on benches. Vonleh for Batum, Lamb, Harkless and O'Quinn for 2nd rounders - and these are all quality guys in my opinion, and I think at the very least you'll get a servicable rotation player.

If you were rebuilding like that, what kind of dark horse players would you take a low risk gamble on?

Andrew Nicholson would be right up there for me. I think his scoring is an untapped weapon, and a team like Portland could gain a lot by showcasing him, letting him put up over 15ppg and then flipping him for a more significant upgrade (if he's not good enough to keep around himself.).

Other guys I think still have the potential to take off and at the very least become quality NBA starters:

Fournier, CJ McCollum, Schroeder, Jae Crawford, Alec Burks, Andre Roberson, McDaniels, McDermott, amongst others.

Who would you mark as a low risk high reward kind of player for a rebuild like that?

[drsd]

Based on your post, it seems that trading Nicholson to Portland and Charlotte could be a great way forward for Orlando. Nicholson has no role to the Magic, in my opinion. Maximizing his value seems to me to be the point.

If GM Henngian chooses to keep him to the season's start, he need to prove a lot in a very short time. His window is small to remain as a Magician, in my opinion.

..

[Edrock]

Other guys I think still have the potential to take off and at the very least become quality NBA starters:

Fournier, CJ McCollum, Schroeder, Jae Crawford, Alec Burks, Andre Roberson, McDaniels, McDermott, amongst others.

Who would you mark as a low risk high reward kind of player for a rebuild like that?

CHA got Troy Daniels too.

Harkless, Oquinn, and Vonleh don't really compare to many of the guys you've listed. Those guys underperformed for bad teams. Lamb was given plenty of minutes on an injury plagued roster and underperformed.

McCollum, Schroeder were both pretty important rotation players for PO teams. Crowder just got re-signed for a long term deal. Burks just signed an extension last season before a season ending injury, and McDermott had injury problems as well. McDaniels is an FA. dunno enough about Roberson to comment.

Seems like the magic did that already a few seasons ago with Vooch and Harris. Honestly no more young players are needed for this roster. The targets should be high character vets with something left in the tank. More Paul Pierce/Jared Dudley less Willie Green/Ben Gordon. I wouldn't mind a big man to instill some toughness in the Magic frontcourt ala KG.

As far as players to rebuild with now? Capela from HOU, maybe Henson from MIL. The Plumlee in PHX. Spencer Dwinddle from DET. PJIII in OKC

[MagicFan32]

i think the blazers and hornets are just building for purgatory, the hornets moreso with their continued failure at drafting.

we see people get all hype about young guys who can't break rotations all the time, in particular this forum used to have a boner for jeremy lamb, so much that people were willing to sacrifice good assets for him...where's he at now?

vonleh could end up being a steal....or portland could have just burned a valuable asset for someone who isn't very good

[The Real Dalic]

i think the blazers and hornets are just building for purgatory, the hornets moreso with their continued failure at drafting.

we see people get all hype about young guys who can't break rotations all the time, in particular this forum used to have a boner for jeremy lamb, so much that people were willing to sacrifice good assets for him...where's he at now?

vonleh could end up being a steal....or portland could have just burned a valuable asset for someone who isn't very good

Sometimes those young player who can't break the rotation turn into very good players. Look at Tobias with Milwaukee and then here.

[Skin]

SVG just picked up Quincy Miller... good move along the lines of this thread.

[Nemesis21]

SVG just picked up Quincy Miller... good move along the lines of this thread.

You mean, he just traded Quincy Miller for Steve Blake.

[Def Swami]

To add to your list: Gorgui Dieng and John Henson

[BadMofoPimp]

Quincy Miller is a scrub who bounces around the D-League and multiple 10 day contracts. I suspect SVG has plans to trade Jennings soon.

[SD2042]

Quincy Miller is a scrub who bounces around the D-League and multiple 10 day contracts. I suspect SVG has plans to trade Jennings soon.

It would not surprise me if SVG has that on his mind. With the way Jennings plays, he's better suited as a sixth man role as he's capable of scoring rather be a traditional PG some teams try to force him to be.

[thelead]

Can't blame Portland for what they're doing but they are grabbing young guys with a ton of minutes who have underperformed. We've seen Harkless (4598 NBA minutes!!!) and Lamb (2318 NBA minutes) in starting roles. They have failed to deliver; Moe more so than Lamb. Vonleh is the only one that has a real shot of becoming something (only 259 NBA minutes).

To build with young guys buried on benches, you have to find guys that haven't played much but have produced in the few minutes they were given. There is ZERO guarantee that their per36 numbers hold up but you have a way better chance of that happening than expecting a guy with nearly 5000 NBA minutes to suddenly figure it out.

My opinion, of course.

[thelead]

To add to your list: Gorgui Dieng and John Henson

I don't think they count. These are young guys with high PER's, play regular minutes and would take quite a bit to pry away from their teams. It doesn't hurt that they're bigs though. They are especially hard to pry away.

CJ McCollum is a good candidate. As far as bigs go, Cody Zeller is the only one I can think of (and even he would be difficult to get IMO). Nurkic is another but I think he had too solid of a rookie year to get him on the cheap; which I believe is the premise of this thread.

[Bensational]

Other guys I think still have the potential to take off and at the very least become quality NBA starters:

Fournier, CJ McCollum, Schroeder, Jae Crawford, Alec Burks, Andre Roberson, McDaniels, McDermott, amongst others.

Who would you mark as a low risk high reward kind of player for a rebuild like that?

Harkless, Oquinn, and Vonleh don't really compare to many of the guys you've listed. Those guys underperformed for bad teams. Lamb was given plenty of minutes on an injury plagued roster and underperformed.

McCollum, Schroeder were both pretty important rotation players for PO teams. Crowder just got re-signed for a long term deal. Burks just signed an extension last season before a season ending injury, and McDermott had injury problems as well. McDaniels is an FA. dunno enough about Roberson to comment.

level of talent fluctuates, but i guess i'm just giving examples of how far you can stretch the boundaries on who might be included in the challenge. i think all of those guys are capable of being quality NBA starters, and i think you could probably get all of them for cheaper than the cost of a quality NBA starter. some might cost you Batum (in which case you'd really want to justify why you'd pay so much), some might cost you a 2nd round pick.

Seems like the magic did that already a few seasons ago with Vooch and Harris. Honestly no more young players are needed for this roster. The targets should be high character vets with something left in the tank. More Paul Pierce/Jared Dudley less Willie Green/Ben Gordon. I wouldn't mind a big man to instill some toughness in the Magic frontcourt ala KG.

As far as players to rebuild with now? Capela from HOU, maybe Henson from MIL. The Plumlee in PHX. Spencer Dwinddle from DET. PJIII in OKC

yeah, i wasn't talking about this roster specifically. just any team that's starting a rebuild but doesn't wanna gut the roster like Philly.

[Bensational]

To add to your list: Gorgui Dieng and John Henson

Dieng is probably too well known by now for a team to land him affordably. i had him pegged whilst he was still in college, but now i think you'd be paying a pretty price for Deing.

do you reckon you could get him for Batum?? would you take Dieng over Vonleh?

Henson is probably still flying under the radar in terms of his true value. if you made him a starter i reckon he'd give you some pretty monster defensive numbers. he'd certainly do more for your team than Tristan Thompson.

[Bensational]

Can't blame Portland for what they're doing but they are grabbing young guys with a ton of minutes who have underperformed. We've seen Harkless (4598 NBA minutes!!!) and Lamb (2318 NBA minutes) in starting roles. They have failed to deliver; Moe more so than Lamb. Vonleh is the only one that has a real shot of becoming something (only 259 NBA minutes).

To build with young guys buried on benches, you have to find guys that haven't played much but have produced in the few minutes they were given. There is ZERO guarantee that their per36 numbers hold up but you have a way better chance of that happening than expecting a guy with nearly 5000 NBA minutes to suddenly figure it out.

My opinion, of course.

i think you'll find the truly surprising guys that way, for sure (like the Vuc's & Harris'). some of the older guys might just need a change of scenery, system and role to make big strides in performance, and that's from Robin Lopez to Goran Dragic.

someone mentioned PJIII earlier, and that's the kind of suggestion very much in line with what you're suggesting. that's a great idea, because PJ can flat out score and isn't afraid to carry a team still despite being several years out of college and being a deep bench guy.

people say we've seen what Harkless is, but have we? looking at his career averages for games he played over 30 minutes in, he's a 12ppg, 5rpg, 1.65spg, 1bpg, 47%fg 29%3fg guy. That is almost identical to Ariza's numbers this season, but Ariza is better from 3 and the FT line, but Moe has a significantly better fg% because of dunks. that's a pretty good floor for someone that only cost you a 2nd rounder. his ceiling is Ariza with better height and length.

[rcklsscognition]

Can't blame Portland for what they're doing but they are grabbing young guys with a ton of minutes who have underperformed. We've seen Harkless (4598 NBA minutes!!!) and Lamb (2318 NBA minutes) in starting roles. They have failed to deliver; Moe more so than Lamb. Vonleh is the only one that has a real shot of becoming something (only 259 NBA minutes).

To build with young guys buried on benches, you have to find guys that haven't played much but have produced in the few minutes they were given. There is ZERO guarantee that their per36 numbers hold up but you have a way better chance of that happening than expecting a guy with nearly 5000 NBA minutes to suddenly figure it out.

My opinion, of course.

This is my stance too. GMs and scouting staffs generally use 2500 minutes as the threshold for determining a player's potential. Harkless is WAY over the limit.

Tobias was putting up the same stats in Tennessee that he does now, with the exception of his 3pt percentage, which is more a shot selection change than anything (from the corners now).

I agree, Vonleh is the only guy with potential only because he hasn't played. We can be fairly certain that guys with +2500 minutes that still cannot have decent PER36 numbers will never be good. I have studied the relationship between PER36, Minutes Played, Years in the league, and Age, and it holds up very strongly in most cases.