Team will be fine if they let Elfrid get healthy

[GameOver25]

What he brings is 11 ppg and 6 apg on not very good efficiency. That's it. There is no magic pixie dust that makes those numbers secretly better.

I'll be happy to have him healthy again, but both guard positions have been more bad than good for us on offense this year.

Whether or not he's dropping 11pts, 6asts or 25pts, 12asts a game. The point is, with the team "as constructed now" they're noticeably better when Elfrid is out there. Or are you still waiting for Oladipo to become the better PG?

What evidence do you have to support this statement? I haven't looked at the on/off numbers in a few weeks, but they sure didn't show what that statement would imply last time I checked.

Before I continue, let me just say if we're strictly only going by a numbers game or looking at compiled stats, then this will be the last post I'll speak to you on it and politely agree to disagree with you. Let me ask you with no disrespect can you honestly sit here and not see Elfrid running the offense vs Oladipo running the offense it's like night and day. Regardless of the end result the teams cohesiveness looks so much better when Elfrid is running the offense (better passes, he has the best vision on the team, etc). But again cohesiveness is something that CAN'T BE MEASURED, so I'm sure that will be used against my post and Elfrid in your eyes.

[ChosenSavior]

I agree with the OP and it doesn't have to do with the fact that he's a fan of the Cowboys like I am lol. On the surface, yes the numbers do not jump out at you at all and certainly his efficiency needs to improve to take his game to another level.

However the simple eye test these past four games made it crystal clear for me how important the PG position is for our team. We have potential playmakers in Mario and AG but they are not trusted as of yet with that type of offensive responsibility. Elf has intangibles that you just cannot teach at the PG position. When he was healthy, he had an excellent command of the offense in terms of getting guys organized and hitting them at the correct time or he would see the play before it developed and reacted correctly. He also has a 2nd gear on both ends where he can flat out impact a game positively and energize the entire squad. We are missing that right now.

If C.J. Watson was healthy, I feel we would have at least gotten two of these games. We just need to stay afloat and rally around this.

[Catledge]

Before I continue, let me just say if we're strictly only going by a numbers game or looking at compiled stats, then this will be the last post I'll speak to you on it and politely agree to disagree with you. Let me ask you with no disrespect can you honestly sit here and not see Elfrid running the offense vs Oladipo running the offense it's like night and day. Regardless of the end result the teams cohesiveness looks so much better when Elfrid is running the offense (better passes, he has the best vision on the team, etc). But again cohesiveness is something that CAN'T BE MEASURED, so I'm sure that will be used against my post and Elfrid in your eyes.

I watch the same games you watch, and my eye test gives different results than yours. We can argue about who has the better eye, or we can support our arguments with evidence.

If you prefer qualitative evidence, I would point to the fact that nobody guards Payton when he doesn't have the ball, which is terrible for our offense. Similarly, his inability to punish teams for playing way off of him makes it much harder for him to penetrate, as was illustrated by the Hawks defense when they shut us down with Kyle Korver defending Payton from five steps away.

I want Payton to get healthy, and I still think he can be a very good NBA player in the future, but he is not there yet. I believe that the Magic will get out of this slump, but it will be the product of several guys getting their heads out of their butts.

[Orlwillbeback]

Before I continue, let me just say if we're strictly only going by a numbers game or looking at compiled stats, then this will be the last post I'll speak to you on it and politely agree to disagree with you. Let me ask you with no disrespect can you honestly sit here and not see Elfrid running the offense vs Oladipo running the offense it's like night and day. Regardless of the end result the teams cohesiveness looks so much better when Elfrid is running the offense (better passes, he has the best vision on the team, etc). But again cohesiveness is something that CAN'T BE MEASURED, so I'm sure that will be used against my post and Elfrid in your eyes.

I watch the same games you watch, and my eye test gives different results than yours. We can argue about who has the better eye, or we can support our arguments with evidence.

If you prefer qualitative evidence, I would point to the fact that nobody guards Payton when he doesn't have the ball, which is terrible for our offense. Similarly, his inability to punish teams for playing way off of him makes it much harder for him to penetrate, as was illustrated by the Hawks defense when they shut us down with Kyle Korver defending Payton from five steps away.

I want Payton to get healthy, and I still think he can be a very good NBA player in the future, but he is not there yet. I believe that the Magic will get out of this slump, but it will be the product of several guys getting their heads out of their butts.

[NBlue]

Before I continue, let me just say if we're strictly only going by a numbers game or looking at compiled stats, then this will be the last post I'll speak to you on it and politely agree to disagree with you. Let me ask you with no disrespect can you honestly sit here and not see Elfrid running the offense vs Oladipo running the offense it's like night and day. Regardless of the end result the teams cohesiveness looks so much better when Elfrid is running the offense (better passes, he has the best vision on the team, etc). But again cohesiveness is something that CAN'T BE MEASURED, so I'm sure that will be used against my post and Elfrid in your eyes.

I watch the same games you watch, and my eye test gives different results than yours. We can argue about who has the better eye, or we can support our arguments with evidence.

If you prefer qualitative evidence, I would point to the fact that nobody guards Payton when he doesn't have the ball, which is terrible for our offense. Similarly, his inability to punish teams for playing way off of him makes it much harder for him to penetrate, as was illustrated by the Hawks defense when they shut us down with Kyle Korver defending Payton from five steps away.

I want Payton to get healthy, and I still think he can be a very good NBA player in the future, but he is not there yet. I believe that the Magic will get out of this slump, but it will be the product of several guys getting their heads out of their butts.

I don't think the whole "backing off' thing is as problematic as you think, D. In Z Lowe's article today EP talks about getting up a head of steam when defenders back off of him or shooting the J. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14530505/elfrid-payton-talks-rise-stardom-life-nba

I can't shoot a jumper to save my life but I love it when guys back off as it allows me to get a first step in more easily and also allows me to get going. Sure, it hurts spacing but they back off Rondo and used to back off J Kidd for the early part of his career as well. I don't think that's a deal killer. You know I can't shoot but you never back off me too far.

Oh yeah, since EP has been hurt pretty badly (say, over the past 4 games), how many of those have we won? Measure that.

[Catledge]

Before I continue, let me just say if we're strictly only going by a numbers game or looking at compiled stats, then this will be the last post I'll speak to you on it and politely agree to disagree with you. Let me ask you with no disrespect can you honestly sit here and not see Elfrid running the offense vs Oladipo running the offense it's like night and day. Regardless of the end result the teams cohesiveness looks so much better when Elfrid is running the offense (better passes, he has the best vision on the team, etc). But again cohesiveness is something that CAN'T BE MEASURED, so I'm sure that will be used against my post and Elfrid in your eyes.

I watch the same games you watch, and my eye test gives different results than yours. We can argue about who has the better eye, or we can support our arguments with evidence.

If you prefer qualitative evidence, I would point to the fact that nobody guards Payton when he doesn't have the ball, which is terrible for our offense. Similarly, his inability to punish teams for playing way off of him makes it much harder for him to penetrate, as was illustrated by the Hawks defense when they shut us down with Kyle Korver defending Payton from five steps away.

I want Payton to get healthy, and I still think he can be a very good NBA player in the future, but he is not there yet. I believe that the Magic will get out of this slump, but it will be the product of several guys getting their heads out of their butts.

11 and 6.

Clearly untouchable.

[The Other Ankle]

I watch the same games you watch, and my eye test gives different results than yours. We can argue about who has the better eye, or we can support our arguments with evidence.

If you prefer qualitative evidence, I would point to the fact that nobody guards Payton when he doesn't have the ball, which is terrible for our offense. Similarly, his inability to punish teams for playing way off of him makes it much harder for him to penetrate, as was illustrated by the Hawks defense when they shut us down with Kyle Korver defending Payton from five steps away.

I want Payton to get healthy, and I still think he can be a very good NBA player in the future, but he is not there yet. I believe that the Magic will get out of this slump, but it will be the product of several guys getting their heads out of their butts.

11 and 6.

Clearly untouchable.

This latest response resembles the above picture to a high degree.

[drsd]

Payton is practicing and looks to play, but now Gordon might ave a new injury.


..

[fklt]

even from the moments you were in the form of a WoNK pick (never forget!) you were always our hopes and aspirations, riding on a roller-coaster elfrid. thank you for being here.

[JF5]

This extended "Break" period is a blessing in disguise for the Magic. At least the team will be at full strength when they return to the states by next week.

[Def Swami]

[Blue_and_Whte]

[407Junkie]

Yeah I like Payton and all but this we'll be fine when he's healthy crap is far fetched. We'll be fine when Skiles flips this garbage starting lineup and our top 5 pick from this year starts playing like one. This team will never be nothing with none of these high draft picks not turning into a yearly all star/all pro player. They'll continue to get washed against good teams who have those type players. This starting lineup is an abomination and unathletic.

[Blue_and_Whte]

[MagicStarwipe]

After the Hawks loss.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0l465xmoMM[/youtube]

"Felt good today for the first time in a while"... "looking forward to hopefully feeling good again tomorrow and continue to progress back to 100 (percent)".

He did look to be moving much better.