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Let's Talk About Mario

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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#501 » by Bensational » Thu May 5, 2016 9:01 pm

SOUL wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/DeanO_Lytics/status/727163263579000832[/tweet]


Hezonja and Nicholson show up frequently in our most efficient lineups. There's obviously noise in there because they were mostly against 2nd units, but even then, seems like a wasted opportunity not to have explored their games more this season off the bench.

That Vuc/Nicholson pairing off the bench during our last few games was so incredibly potent. And if your bench is performing that well, it means Skiles doesn't have to over rely on guys like Fournier and Dipo, and they won't have to play as many 40mpg games in future. That naturally opens up more minutes for Mario, since the pressure is off a bit more.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#502 » by PennytoShaq » Thu May 5, 2016 11:09 pm

People have to remember that Hennigan drafts for celling. Oladipo, Gordon, Mario - all had probably the highest celling of remaining players in their draft. I do believe this pays off over time, but people who expect Mario to light it up his first year simply don't understand how the NBA works with players like this. It takes them some time. They are raw.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#503 » by ezzzp » Fri May 6, 2016 8:49 am

Mario Hezonja compared to his fellow rookies (the top 30 in total minutes):

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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#504 » by PennytoShaq » Fri May 6, 2016 4:22 pm

Main takeaway here is we added Mario because of his high ceiling, athleticism and his shooting ability. Looks like he is delivering on the shooting. It is such a confidence thing, not just technique. Hi technique is fantastic, and the confidence is in and out, but when that stabilizes, we should have a serious player on this team.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#505 » by ezzzp » Fri May 6, 2016 7:00 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:Main takeaway here is we added Mario because of his high ceiling, athleticism and his shooting ability. Looks like he is delivering on the shooting. It is such a confidence thing, not just technique. Hi technique is fantastic, and the confidence is in and out, but when that stabilizes, we should have a serious player on this team.


My main take away was that there is not nearly enough talk about Nikola Jokic's really fantastic rookie season. KAT has kind of stolen the headline, but Jokic is a really really nice young big.

Mario was fine...a bit underwhelming, but the tools are there - just a lot rawer than I hoped. Right now he's firmly entrenched in the lower middle of the pack. I think by next year, around mid-season, he will really start to put things together and begin a rapid ascent.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#506 » by seeingstars » Sat May 7, 2016 4:57 pm

Skin wrote:
andog_22 wrote:Does this trade make any sense for Orlando?

Terrence Ross
9th Overall

For:

Ilyasova
Hezonja
11th Overall

I'd do 11th overall for Kyle Lowry even though he's 30 years old. We have the cap space to absorb his contract. Thoughts?


Has Lowrys stock really fallen that far? Theyd be in full swing rebuild mode in order to do that trade. Have you been hacked?
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#507 » by Baka_La Flame » Sun May 8, 2016 5:58 am

At this point I see It going three ways with Hezzy

Floor
JR Smith

Living room
Gordon Hayward

Ceiling
More athletic Klay Thompson
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#508 » by Melvinlocker » Mon May 9, 2016 11:37 pm

Shooting Analysis- Mario Hezonja


2015-16

2P- 50.4%

0-3ft- 65.9%

3-10ft- 41.2%

10-16ft- 47.6%

16-3Pft- 43.5%

3P- 39.5%

FT- 90.7%

Summary

Hezonja's rookie campaign was not on par with many of the other 2016 rookies, but there is should still be great optimism regarding his shooting ability. All of his shooting %'s ranged from above average to elite for his position except for his 3P%. It's important to note that these percentages were achieved on a small sample size, but they are nonetheless encouraging. As he gets on the floor for longer stretches he should continue this dominate trend. In the 9 games Hezonja started, his base shooting stats either remained the same or improved slightly. He shot a scintillating 90.7% from the free-throw line, which for the most part was irrelevant because he hardly ever made it there (1.4 attempts per 36). For guys like Hezonja, FTA's (and defense) is what separates career 6th men and All-Stars.

As he improves on both sides of the ball, he could become a very formidable weapon for the Magic. Not many guards come in with his combination of shooting and athletic ability.

2017 Primary Goals

1. Get to the line 3 times per 36.
2. Increase 3P% to 38%+
3. Show that his other %'s aren't a fluke when he earns an expanded role.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#509 » by KillMonger » Tue May 10, 2016 12:25 am

Melvinlocker wrote:Shooting Analysis- Mario Hezonja


2015-16

2P- 50.4%

0-3ft- 65.9%

3-10ft- 41.2%

10-16ft- 47.6%

16-3Pft- 43.5%

3P- 39.5%

FT- 90.7%

Summary

Hezonja's rookie campaign was not on par with many of the other 2016 rookies, but there is should still be great optimism regarding his shooting ability. All of his shooting %'s ranged from above average to elite for his position except for his 3P%. It's important to note that these percentages were achieved on a small sample size, but they are nonetheless encouraging. As he gets on the floor for longer stretches he should continue this dominate trend. In the 9 games Hezonja started, his base shooting stats either remained the same or improved slightly. He shot a scintillating 90.7% from the free-throw line, which for the most part was irrelevant because he hardly ever made it there (1.4 attempts per 36). For guys like Hezonja, FTA's (and defense) is what separates career 6th men and All-Stars.

As he improves on both sides of the ball, he could become a very formidable weapon for the Magic. Not many guards come in with his combination of shooting and athletic ability.

2017 Primary Goals

1. Get to the line 3 times per 36.
2. Increase 3P% to 38%+
3. Show that his other %'s aren't a fluke when he earns an expanded role.

IF he earns an expanded role but this is a good post
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#510 » by Melvinlocker » Tue May 10, 2016 12:58 am

Immature Luigi wrote:
Melvinlocker wrote:Shooting Analysis- Mario Hezonja


2015-16

2P- 50.4%

0-3ft- 65.9%

3-10ft- 41.2%

10-16ft- 47.6%

16-3Pft- 43.5%

3P- 39.5%

FT- 90.7%

Summary

Hezonja's rookie campaign was not on par with many of the other 2016 rookies, but there is should still be great optimism regarding his shooting ability. All of his shooting %'s ranged from above average to elite for his position except for his 3P%. It's important to note that these percentages were achieved on a small sample size, but they are nonetheless encouraging. As he gets on the floor for longer stretches he should continue this dominate trend. In the 9 games Hezonja started, his base shooting stats either remained the same or improved slightly. He shot a scintillating 90.7% from the free-throw line, which for the most part was irrelevant because he hardly ever made it there (1.4 attempts per 36). For guys like Hezonja, FTA's (and defense) is what separates career 6th men and All-Stars.

As he improves on both sides of the ball, he could become a very formidable weapon for the Magic. Not many guards come in with his combination of shooting and athletic ability.

2017 Primary Goals

1. Get to the line 3 times per 36.
2. Increase 3P% to 38%+
3. Show that his other %'s aren't a fluke when he earns an expanded role.

IF he earns an expanded role but this is a good post


Thanks. Shooting ability seems to be such a key issue for our team moving forward so I went ahead and did shooting profiles for all of our young guys (Oladipo, Fournier, Payton and Gordon). I think it's good to know what we have currently and what needs to improve.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#511 » by Magic_Kingdom » Wed May 11, 2016 1:58 am

ezzzp wrote:Mario Hezonja compared to his fellow rookies (the top 30 in total minutes):

Image


So he was 15th among rookies in per 36 scoring at 12.2 ppg. Certainly not real impressive for a #5 pick.

Mario didn't have to come in and win Rookie of the Year, but it's hard to argue that he had a good rookie season. To say he was "raw", for me, is like saying he under-performed in the one area where he was supposed to have an advantage -- his skills. The word on Mario was he had been playing pro ball since he was 12, was playing against men, not college kids, in Europe's top league for one of its top teams, and had been training and honing his skills for years. He was supposed to be more "game-ready" than the 18-19 year old college kids in his draft. But the truth is, he wasn't. His ball-handling was sloppy, his shooting percentage wasn't that good, he was lost on defense for at least half the season (that improved as the season went on, have to give him credit there). The one skill set that impressed me was his passing. I hope Skiles can cultivate that and find a way to use it.

As I said in previous posts, I'm sure Mario will improve and probably become a nice player. But the great players show it in their rookie years, and that means, once again, we didn't get a great player. Maybe a good player, not a great player. At some point Hennigan is going to have to hit on a guy, or this rebuild will go on for years.

Incidentally, the Magic Facebook page had a post today about Mike Miller winning the Rookie of the Year in 2001 (as a #5 pick). He hit 148 3-pointers on 40.7% from 3-point range. Also could pass, run the court, had handles. Watching the highlights they posted, I forgot how athletic he was before he started having injuries.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#512 » by SOUL » Wed May 11, 2016 2:10 am

Hennigan hasn't hit on a guy?

Also I mean if we let Hezonja go full Booker (who regressed as the season went on) with FGA and let him have a high usage percent (he was in the lower end of usage category) his scoring would look way better. I don't think that's a good way to gauge a player at all, unless you were comparing similar usage types.

Second and third year will tell much more. It's pretty rare you get the Towns type of rookies that show impact + numbers that quickly even from #1 picks.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#513 » by majortom71 » Wed May 11, 2016 2:43 am

IMO, Hezonja was a major disappointment within this very talented draft class. For going top 5 a lot more was expected but he won't even make all-rookie 2nd team in this draft class. He was not my ideal choice during the draft, in fact I did not want the Magic to pick him but it is what it is.
It showed me that Hennigan is not as infallible as I thought he was.
He has to make vast improvements next season or he can be labeled a bust for a top 5 pick.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#514 » by PennytoShaq » Wed May 11, 2016 2:59 am

majortom71 wrote:IMO, Hezonja was a major disappointment within this very talented draft class. For going top 5 a lot more was expected but he won't even make all-rookie 2nd team in this draft class. He was not my ideal choice during the draft, in fact I did not want the Magic to pick him but it is what it is.
It showed me that Hennigan is not as infallible as I thought he was.
He has to make vast improvements next season or he can be labeled a bust for a top 5 pick.


Sounds more like you just want to be right because nothing else you said is really that accurate.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#515 » by majortom71 » Wed May 11, 2016 3:03 am

PennytoShaq wrote:
majortom71 wrote:IMO, Hezonja was a major disappointment within this very talented draft class. For going top 5 a lot more was expected but he won't even make all-rookie 2nd team in this draft class. He was not my ideal choice during the draft, in fact I did not want the Magic to pick him but it is what it is.
It showed me that Hennigan is not as infallible as I thought he was.
He has to make vast improvements next season or he can be labeled a bust for a top 5 pick.


Sounds more like you just want to be right because nothing else you said is really that accurate.


You can go ahead and refute me, regardless I did mention it as my opinion. :roll:
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#516 » by SOUL » Wed May 11, 2016 3:15 am

It is your opinion. I have no issue with the opinion of not liking Hezonja and wanting others over him that you think could possibly help more.

However, I do find fault with the rookie season, low minutes/opportunity bust label being thrust upon somebody that actually showed a fair bit of improvement over the course of the season, behind 2 other players at his position.

In fact, there was a large stretch of games where Porzingis and Booker (two people would project as all-star caliber players) playing worse than Hezonja did for the minutes they accrued, and nobody would call them busts.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#517 » by OrlChamps2030 » Wed May 11, 2016 4:31 am

Not gonna lie, there were several players drafted after him that have a chance of having a better career. I hope he can prove me wrong
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#518 » by Xatticus » Wed May 11, 2016 5:06 am

Magic_Kingdom wrote:So he was 15th among rookies in per 36 scoring at 12.2 ppg. Certainly not real impressive for a #5 pick.

Mario didn't have to come in and win Rookie of the Year, but it's hard to argue that he had a good rookie season. To say he was "raw", for me, is like saying he under-performed in the one area where he was supposed to have an advantage -- his skills. The word on Mario was he had been playing pro ball since he was 12, was playing against men, not college kids, in Europe's top league for one of its top teams, and had been training and honing his skills for years. He was supposed to be more "game-ready" than the 18-19 year old college kids in his draft. But the truth is, he wasn't. His ball-handling was sloppy, his shooting percentage wasn't that good, he was lost on defense for at least half the season (that improved as the season went on, have to give him credit there). The one skill set that impressed me was his passing. I hope Skiles can cultivate that and find a way to use it.

As I said in previous posts, I'm sure Mario will improve and probably become a nice player. But the great players show it in their rookie years, and that means, once again, we didn't get a great player. Maybe a good player, not a great player. At some point Hennigan is going to have to hit on a guy, or this rebuild will go on for years.

Incidentally, the Magic Facebook page had a post today about Mike Miller winning the Rookie of the Year in 2001 (as a #5 pick). He hit 148 3-pointers on 40.7% from 3-point range. Also could pass, run the court, had handles. Watching the highlights they posted, I forgot how athletic he was before he started having injuries.


He was at one of the biggest clubs outside of the NBA, but he didn't play much at all. His draft stock wasn't based on his career achievements, but rather on his potential.

I was a bit leery about any projections regarding him, as there just wasn't enough evidence. I think expecting him to come in and take the NBA by storm was pretty unreasonable. I think one can interpret this season as a positive or negative. I'm not too bothered by either. What I hope to see, is a huge leap forward in year two. Great players don't always have great rookie seasons, but they do show tremendous improvement over their first couple years in the league.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#519 » by SaberT » Wed May 11, 2016 6:35 am

How many great euro players had great rookie seasons? Especially if they came at the age of 20. You need to take things into context when talking like that. College ball and euro ball are different games, and NBA is whole other level.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#520 » by Von Bismarck » Wed May 11, 2016 11:08 am

majortom71 wrote:He has to make vast improvements next season or he can be labeled a bust for a top 5 pick.


Do you think AG made 'vast improvements' during this season or he can already be labeled bust for a top 4 pick?

Asking cause he had worse rookie season than Hezonja (and Magic were still in tank mode)

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