2016 Official Speculation Thread

[Def Swami]

That's totally not accurate - teams play the players that impact their roster the best and who is available to them. For example, Steven Adams absolutely does not start if Westbrook and Durant are not on that team. Do you really think Charlotte starts Zeller if Vucevic is on that roster?

Also off the top of my head you missed Boston, Bulls, Dallas, NYK, Phoenix, and Portland...

What makes you say that? Vucevic would likely be used as Big Al as the primary big of the bench.

Boston - yeah maybe. Their frontcourt is pretty bad.

Chicago- he's not starting over Gasol or healthy Noah.

Nyk- No way. RoLo is a great defensive center and pairing with PorzinGod.

Phoenix - Maybe. They're a mess right now and I don't think they're really high on Len.

Portland - No. Plumlee is a much superior fit in their starting lineup.

- No way big Al was badly slowed badly by injuries all year, forcing him to miss half the season.
- Gasol and Noah are free agents.
- Porzingis would have been perfect next to Vuc, what makes the inverse any different. Knicks sit Lopez immediately
- not maybe, definitely - Len isn't even yet able to push aside a 80 year old Chandler having epically bad season
- Portland is desperate for interior scoring...you obviously didn't watch the 1st round

To add, I'm not sure if "healthy Noah" exists anymore. Agree that Porzingis + Vucevic would be the perfect pairing, which is probably why Hennigan was trying his damndest to get him. Portland basically played several seasons with Lamarcus Aldridge doing the same things as Vucevic for them and earned a 3 seed last year with the big lineup.

I think Vucevic's faults as a player are highlighted so much more because of the make up of the roster around him. It's not a perfect fit, but that's not to say he's not starter material on most other teams. Other teams are better equipped to cover for his drawbacks on defense.

[EAS Law]

LOL @ Vuc not starting on MOST teams... I believe he's second to Cousins in most offensive statistical categories that matter.

He needs to work on his Defense, but to think that I've seen the likes of Robin Lopez thrown around as a better player are absolutely disgusting.

Can we allow like just a little time for our guys to develop before casting them off as less than journeymen that have NEVER been good?

[LacosteM]

That's totally not accurate - teams play the players that impact their roster the best and who is available to them. For example, Steven Adams absolutely does not start if Westbrook and Durant are not on that team. Do you really think Charlotte starts Zeller if Vucevic is on that roster?

Also off the top of my head you missed Boston, Bulls, Dallas, NYK, Phoenix, and Portland...

What makes you say that? Vucevic would likely be used as Big Al as the primary big of the bench.

Boston - yeah maybe. Their frontcourt is pretty bad.

Chicago- he's not starting over Gasol or healthy Noah.

Nyk- No way. RoLo is a great defensive center and pairing with PorzinGod.

Phoenix - Maybe. They're a mess right now and I don't think they're really high on Len.

Portland - No. Plumlee is a much superior fit in their starting lineup.

- No way big Al was badly slowed badly by injuries all year, forcing him to miss half the season.
- Gasol and Noah are free agents.
- Porzingis would have been perfect next to Vuc, what makes the inverse any different. Knicks sit Lopez immediately
- not maybe, definitely - Len isn't even yet able to push aside a 80 year old Chandler having epically bad season
- Portland is desperate for interior scoring...you obviously didn't watch the 1st round

- But still after he returned, Charlotte found great success with him coming of the bench, while Cody was starting.

- Okay, we're speaking hypothetically, talking about current rosters assuming those players are on their team.

- I disagree. Rolo and Zinger compliment each other perfectly. Knicks were elite at protecting the rim largely because of those two. With Vucevic their interior defense goes to hell.

- They're not desperate. And if so how would Vooch help them with that? Over 45% of his FGA come from over 10 feet. He is rapidly distancing himself from the rim and relying primarily on his jumpshot, while keeping his FTr at the pure minimum.

[LacosteM]

LOL @ Vuc not starting on MOST teams... I believe he's second to Cousins in most offensive statistical categories that matter.

He needs to work on his Defense, but to think that I've seen the likes of Robin Lopez thrown around as a better player are absolutely disgusting.

Can we allow like just a little time for our guys to develop before casting them off as less than journeymen that have NEVER been good?

Oh great, could you provide us with those stats than please?

[KillMonger]

Damn man can we get some variety around here? Same arguments just in slightly different ways

[j-ragg]

Can we allow like just a little time for our guys to develop before casting them off as less than journeymen that have NEVER been good?

Well he's pretty much been the same since he came to Orlando. Has he given you much evidence that he has this high ceiling? I think he is pretty much what he is at this point.

His rebounding has actually gotten worse, turnovers about the same, passing better, DRT pretty much the same, DWS pretty much the same. Don't feel like looking up this specific stat but while his mid range jump shot has probably improved (it was already good), seems like he has consistently drifted further and further away from the hoop. All of this while his usage keeps steadily increasing every year. Not sure what he has really given us to think he hasn't developed as much as he is going to, but I'm sure I'll just get called a dumb troll because I don't think our center is Hakeem reincarnated.

[EAS Law]

LOL @ Vuc not starting on MOST teams... I believe he's second to Cousins in most offensive statistical categories that matter.

He needs to work on his Defense, but to think that I've seen the likes of Robin Lopez thrown around as a better player are absolutely disgusting.

Can we allow like just a little time for our guys to develop before casting them off as less than journeymen that have NEVER been good?

Oh great, could you provide us with those stats than please?

You've got Google access, right?

Anyway...

20th in the NBA in FG%
11th in the East in FG%

19th in the NBA in RPG
10th in The East in RPG

He's not second, my mistake. Total scrub though as you can see from those couple of stats.

[LacosteM]

LOL @ Vuc not starting on MOST teams... I believe he's second to Cousins in most offensive statistical categories that matter.

He needs to work on his Defense, but to think that I've seen the likes of Robin Lopez thrown around as a better player are absolutely disgusting.

Can we allow like just a little time for our guys to develop before casting them off as less than journeymen that have NEVER been good?

Oh great, could you provide us with those stats than please?

You've got Google access, right?

I do, but I would like you to present me the stats that support the statement you just made... Or you can continue your empty and inaccurate claims with nothing to back them up.

[EAS Law]

Oh great, could you provide us with those stats than please?

You've got Google access, right?

I do, but I would like you to present me the stats that support the statement you just made... Or you can continue your empty and inaccurate claims with nothing to back them up.

I gave you a couple of quick ones that I could find. You're right, he wasn't second. I remembered something from the season that was probably a reflection of that current time.

My point is that he's not a scrub and we probably would be hard pressed to find someone better to just fall I to our laps.

Who would you prefer realistically?

[LacosteM]

Can we allow like just a little time for our guys to develop before casting them off as less than journeymen that have NEVER been good?

Well he's pretty much been the same since he came to Orlando. Has he given you much evidence that he has this high ceiling? I think he is pretty much what he is at this point.

His rebounding has actually gotten worse, turnovers about the same, passing better, DRT pretty much the same, DWS pretty much the same. Don't feel like looking up this specific stat but while his mid range jump shot has probably improved (it was already good), seems like he has consistently drifted further and further away from the hoop. All of this while his usage keeps steadily increasing every year. Not sure what he has really given us to think he hasn't developed as much as he is going to, but I'm sure I'll just get called a dumb troll because I don't think our center is Hakeem reincarnated.

You can look it up on b-ball reference. It shows clearly how much his shot structure has changed. In 13/14 season 40% of his shots came from inside 0-3 feet, in 15/16 season they were reduced to only 25%.

[EAS Law]

Can we allow like just a little time for our guys to develop before casting them off as less than journeymen that have NEVER been good?

Well he's pretty much been the same since he came to Orlando. Has he given you much evidence that he has this high ceiling? I think he is pretty much what he is at this point.

His rebounding has actually gotten worse, turnovers about the same, passing better, DRT pretty much the same, DWS pretty much the same. Don't feel like looking up this specific stat but while his mid range jump shot has probably improved (it was already good), seems like he has consistently drifted further and further away from the hoop. All of this while his usage keeps steadily increasing every year. Not sure what he has really given us to think he hasn't developed as much as he is going to, but I'm sure I'll just get called a dumb troll because I don't think our center is Hakeem reincarnated.

You can look it up on b-ball reference. It shows clearly how much his shot structure has changed. In 13/14 season 40% of his shots came from inside 0-3 feet, in 15/16 season they were reduced to only 25%.

Is this a reflection of his ability as a player, or a reflection of the way he's being used in the system? I really disliked JV's game plan, but I recall Vuc being way better playing for him.

I was surprised at how low his FG% is and I'm sure it's because of all of those long 2s.

Injuries this season?

Looking at some stats, I really see why RH went after Millsap so hard. He would have been great.

[j-ragg]

Well he's pretty much been the same since he came to Orlando. Has he given you much evidence that he has this high ceiling? I think he is pretty much what he is at this point.

His rebounding has actually gotten worse, turnovers about the same, passing better, DRT pretty much the same, DWS pretty much the same. Don't feel like looking up this specific stat but while his mid range jump shot has probably improved (it was already good), seems like he has consistently drifted further and further away from the hoop. All of this while his usage keeps steadily increasing every year. Not sure what he has really given us to think he hasn't developed as much as he is going to, but I'm sure I'll just get called a dumb troll because I don't think our center is Hakeem reincarnated.

You can look it up on b-ball reference. It shows clearly how much his shot structure has changed. In 13/14 season 40% of his shots came from inside 0-3 feet, in 15/16 season they were reduced to only 25%.

Is this a reflection of his ability as a player, or a reflection of the way he's being used in the system? I really disliked JV's game plan, but I recall Vuc being way better playing for him.

I was surprised at how low his FG% is and I'm sure it's because of all of those long 2s.

Injuries this season?

Looking at some stats, I really see why RH went after Millsap so hard. He would have been great.

Probably played a role in it for sure. I just don't see him really being much better than he is, a really good jump shooting big man with good touch around the hoop. I agree on all counts about Millsap, would've been a nice compliment to this team.

[LacosteM]

You've got Google access, right?

I do, but I would like you to present me the stats that support the statement you just made... Or you can continue your empty and inaccurate claims with nothing to back them up.

I gave you a couple of quick ones that I could find. You're right, he wasn't second. I remembered something from the season that was probably a reflection of that current time.

My point is that he's not a scrub and we probably would be hard pressed to find someone better to just fall I to our laps.

Who would you prefer realistically?

Common now, I never called him a scrub. I simply suggested that he'd probably come of the bench for most of the teams. I'm aware of his talent on offense, but imo his skillset is not what other teams are looking for in their starting center, altough there are few exceptions. In past I also cited couple of examples of previous championship teams who achieved that with having a low usage defensive center as their starter, as in modern nba very few teams run their offense through their center especially a jump-shooting one. I think that Vucevic could have a field-trip playing as the first big of the bench, and he was pretty effective when he came from the bench at the end of the season.

To answer your question I think that Whiteside is definitely an intriguing option for sure, simply because of his defensive presence and because of his high efficiency near the rim. Altough I'm not sure how realistic he is as an option.

[EAS Law]

I do, but I would like you to present me the stats that support the statement you just made... Or you can continue your empty and inaccurate claims with nothing to back them up.

I gave you a couple of quick ones that I could find. You're right, he wasn't second. I remembered something from the season that was probably a reflection of that current time.

My point is that he's not a scrub and we probably would be hard pressed to find someone better to just fall I to our laps.

Who would you prefer realistically?

Common now, I never called him a scrub. I simply suggested that he'd probably come of the bench for most of the teams. I'm aware of his talent on offense, but imo his skillset is not what other teams are looking for in their starting center, altough there are few exceptions. In past I also cited couple of examples of previous championship teams who achieved that with having a low usage defensive center as their starter, as in modern nba very few teams run their offense through their center especially a jump-shooting one. I think that Vucevic could have a field-trip playing as the first big of the bench, and he was pretty effective when he came from the bench at the end of the season.

To answer your question I think that Whiteside is definitely an intriguing option for sure, simply because of his defensive presence and because of his high efficiency near the rim. Altough I'm not sure how realistic he is as an option.

I know you didn't call him a scrub. That was a bit of hyperbole on my part.

Whiteside is definitely intriguing. I'm not 100% sure about his personality, and I worry a ton that he's a classic example of a guy playing out of his mind for a season only to drop off suddenly. Who knows?

It would be great to have the luxury of pairing Vuc with a great defensive player or having him off the bench with a Whiteside/AG tandem in the front court to start.

I suppose my opinion of Vuc was a bit antiquated and I hadn't looked at the stats in a long while. I still think he's capable of being nearly All Star level, but he needs to find a way to show that.

[LacosteM]

Well he's pretty much been the same since he came to Orlando. Has he given you much evidence that he has this high ceiling? I think he is pretty much what he is at this point.

His rebounding has actually gotten worse, turnovers about the same, passing better, DRT pretty much the same, DWS pretty much the same. Don't feel like looking up this specific stat but while his mid range jump shot has probably improved (it was already good), seems like he has consistently drifted further and further away from the hoop. All of this while his usage keeps steadily increasing every year. Not sure what he has really given us to think he hasn't developed as much as he is going to, but I'm sure I'll just get called a dumb troll because I don't think our center is Hakeem reincarnated.

You can look it up on b-ball reference. It shows clearly how much his shot structure has changed. In 13/14 season 40% of his shots came from inside 0-3 feet, in 15/16 season they were reduced to only 25%.

Is this a reflection of his ability as a player, or a reflection of the way he's being used in the system? I really disliked JV's game plan, but I recall Vuc being way better playing for him.

I was surprised at how low his FG% is and I'm sure it's because of all of those long 2s.

Injuries this season?

Looking at some stats, I really see why RH went after Millsap so hard. He would have been great.

I'd say it has to do with how he's being used. Vucevic is a very good finisher at the rim( posting carrer 64% FG from 0-3 feet). And that's why it baffles me why Skiles uses him primarily as a pick&pop threat instead of trying to get him closer to the rim. If he could return on the low block and play more near the rim, while learning to initiate contact and actually getting to the line his efficency would drastically improve imo.

[J the Drafter]

Is this a reflection of his ability as a player, or a reflection of the way he's being used in the system? I really disliked JV's game plan, but I recall Vuc being way better playing for him.

It's not just Vuc who's started struggling. Harris and Payton seem ill-served in Skiles' scheme as well. Harris has been argued to death, while from what I've heard about Payton everyone's gone from high on his passing skills to calling him a terrible pg based on his lack of shooting.

[SOUL]

I've gotten several reports from you guys from personal attacks, keep the debates from going personal please. You can attack the argument just refrain from being personal, or I'll have to hand out warnings. Which I don't want to do which is why I'm just making it clear

[Bensational]

Why would Vuc carry value around the league?

Before people rush in with "because he's an elite scorer and rebounder", let's look at the numbers:

He's ranked 66th amongst C's in Points Per Shot. There's a lot of noise in there with bench players and players who played only a few games, but he still ranks lowly in efficiency. Factor in that he's treated as our #1 option, too.

He's ranked 57th amongst NBA bigs as a PnR roll man (for bigs who attempt over 100 PnRs per season).

He's ranked 35th amongst NBA bigs for defended FG% within 6ft of the rim.

He's ranked 19th in rebounds.


So what kind of value would that pull around the league? Would you trade Oladipo for Vuc if the offer came from another team? Would you trade Butler for him if you were Chicago?

Someone mentioned Portland before. I think Vuc would actually be pretty killer in Portland, taking over LMAs old role, with Ed Davis and Aminu helping to lock down the interior defense. But as trade partners go, they don't really work for us, since they won't be giving up McCollum for him, and none of the other pieces feel like 'equal' value on face value.

What kind of value do people realistically think Vuc would pull?

[MagicStarwipe]

Vucevic. Sick of looking a him, sick of watching him play, sick of hearing about him. If he's still here next season and is not virtually a completey different player or not still being used as our franchise player because his game is safe, then I'll be posting a lot less to spare you all of my bitching and complaining.

[Nemesis21]

Why would Vuc carry value around the league?

Before people rush in with "because he's an elite scorer and rebounder", let's look at the numbers:

He's ranked 66th amongst C's in Points Per Shot. There's a lot of noise in there with bench players and players who played only a few games, but he still ranks lowly in efficiency. Factor in that he's treated as our #1 option, too.

He's ranked 57th amongst NBA bigs as a PnR roll man (for bigs who attempt over 100 PnRs per season).

He's ranked 35th amongst NBA bigs for defended FG% within 6ft of the rim.

He's ranked 19th in rebounds.


So what kind of value would that pull around the league? Would you trade Oladipo for Vuc if the offer came from another team? Would you trade Butler for him if you were Chicago?

Someone mentioned Portland before. I think Vuc would actually be pretty killer in Portland, taking over LMAs old role, with Ed Davis and Aminu helping to lock down the interior defense. But as trade partners go, they don't really work for us, since they won't be giving up McCollum for him, and none of the other pieces feel like 'equal' value on face value.

What kind of value do people realistically think Vuc would pull?

You don't think they would? How about Vuc, resigned Fournier and 11 for McCollum and Plumlee?

Sign Horford?

Payton/Watson
McCollum/Dipo 6th man
AG/Hezonja
Horford/Smith
Plumlee/Dedmon