Game Thread: Orlando Magic (29-41) vs Tobias Harris & Pistons (37-34) 3/23 7:30 PM

[EasternMagic]

Also, we are finishing the season where we were expected to finish. All pre-season predictions had us around 11-12 in the east, with high hopes of fighting for a playoff spot. Not saying that to make us feel better, but realistically, this is where we were expected to be with this team.

You can try to put that spin on it but its hard to remain optimistic after having one of the worse records in the new year. If we played the same throughout the entire seasons and were still at 29 wins, then that's different. But after the 19-13, the level of play has dropped to JV era. That's what worries me and the rest. That we have shown no improvement after the hot streak and actually started to regress and get worse. Big reason for concern.

There is absolutely 0 spin on the post. That's a reality post. We had a good hot streak, but here's the thing about the NBA, teams watch tape, they adjust. Everything that happened to this team this season was expected. Hot streak included. What would have been unexpected was if we made the playoffs. That was certainly something to hope for, and not completely out of reach, but the only ones who expected that it would happen, or have a high chance of happening were Magic fans. That is a no spin, hard fact.

[npiper17]

No, this isn't an overreaction from tonight's game. I hated the trade the second it happened. Regardless of what we do with the extra space, (and I'm sure we'll just overpay a so-so vet) we didn't get enough value for him. We traded the best player in the trade and basically got nothing. You don't salary dump 23 year olds

You can't just say 'regardless of what we do with the extra space' as if it's a throw away asset.

Having that extra space (along with the space created by trading Frye) could be the difference between acquiring 2 difference makers in the off-season.

People are so quick to judge trades - not just for the Magic but for every team. You can't analyse the trade in a vacuum which is what you're doing.

I hope he's still pissed when we sign lebron and kevin durant to deals this summer. "I don't care.... forget Durant and BronBron... wish we never traded Harris for this opportunity!"

smh... some people are just "glass half full" -ers

See my post in the spec thread - you can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket.

Do I think we'll sign Durant this summer? No.

Do I think we'll sign someone who can have a greater impact on the level of play by this team than Tobias did? Yes.

Hardly glass half-full. Considering how bad we've been both with and without Harris, I'd call that semi-realistic.

[OrlandO]

Also, we are finishing the season where we were expected to finish. All pre-season predictions had us around 11-12 in the east, with high hopes of fighting for a playoff spot. Not saying that to make us feel better, but realistically, this is where we were expected to be with this team.

You can try to put that spin on it but its hard to remain optimistic after having one of the worse records in the new year. If we played the same throughout the entire seasons and were still at 29 wins, then that's different. But after the 19-13, the level of play has dropped to JV era. That's what worries me and the rest. That we have shown no improvement after the hot streak and actually started to regress and get worse. Big reason for concern.

That's how I view it. It's not really about the record. I'd be fine with wins in the low 30s if we actually showed progress throughout the season - like struggling early and finishing strong. That would be encouraging heading into the summer. Hell, even spreading the wins/losses more consistently through the season would have been much better. Instead, we've managed to get to this record in the worst way possible by severely trending in the opposite direction. We've had 3 consecutive months of looking like crap now. We are not anywhere close to the team that went 19-13. We are closer to the team that's gone 10-29 in the new year.

As far as team play goes, do we even have anything to be optimistic about at this point in the season? April is around the corner and we still look like trash on offense and defense. As frustrating as it is a skiles team with crappy offense is not a surprise, but who expected us to still be giving up 107-109 ppg on 47-48% fg and 39% 3pt (25 3pta) in each month of the new year... we hired skiles to improve defense and it's not happening at all. I'm not saying we need to be elite overnight, but we shouldn't be looking as bad as last season.

[yoyojw17]

You can't just say 'regardless of what we do with the extra space' as if it's a throw away asset.

Having that extra space (along with the space created by trading Frye) could be the difference between acquiring 2 difference makers in the off-season.

People are so quick to judge trades - not just for the Magic but for every team. You can't analyse the trade in a vacuum which is what you're doing.

I hope he's still pissed when we sign lebron and kevin durant to deals this summer. "I don't care.... forget Durant and BronBron... wish we never traded Harris for this opportunity!"

smh... some people are just "glass half full" -ers

See my post in the spec thread - you can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket.

Do I think we'll sign Durant this summer? No.

Do I think we'll sign someone who can have a greater impact on the level of play by this team than Tobias did? Yes.

Hardly glass half-full. Considering how bad we've been both with and without Harris, I'd call that semi-realistic.

hahah.... hope you knew that i was agreeing with you.... right?

[npiper17]

I hope he's still pissed when we sign lebron and kevin durant to deals this summer. "I don't care.... forget Durant and BronBron... wish we never traded Harris for this opportunity!"

smh... some people are just "glass half full" -ers

See my post in the spec thread - you can't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket.

Do I think we'll sign Durant this summer? No.

Do I think we'll sign someone who can have a greater impact on the level of play by this team than Tobias did? Yes.

Hardly glass half-full. Considering how bad we've been both with and without Harris, I'd call that semi-realistic.

hahah.... hope you knew that i was agreeing with you.... right?

No sorry, I missed that. It's been a long day ha ha.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Clarence Thomas got busted for Coke amongst other dirty deeds and ended up a Supreme Court Judge for many years!

Some of you need to get off your pedestals. Seriously. What does any of that have to do with NBA basketball? Pathetic. Dude was in college and openly talks about how he was an idiot who made bad choices. Welcome to life where not everyone is perfect get over yourselves and stop acting like you've never done anything dumb.

Lol the coke I could care less about

But (at least) six kids with (at least) 6 baby moms?? You think that's respectable? Guess we just have different standards

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

At what point did I say it was respectable? While I wait for you to learn basic elementary level reading comprehension and find where exactly I said I think it's respectable I'll reiterate that lots of people make mistakes but more specifically in sports where they have multiple children out of wedlock, but most are willing to overlook that unless that persons last name is Skiles. At no point did I condone drug use or having multiple children out of wedlock what I actually said was that we should stick to basketball. As opposed to being little bitches and crying about a mistake someone made 30 years ago that has nothing to do with whats going on now.

[Jameerthefear]

And there it is. The over-reaction from last night's game that I predicted.

As I've said elsewhere, would it not make sense to wait and see who gets plugged into the $17m worth of cap room that would have had Tobias in it before we declare a 'winner?'

You mention the stated goals of the trade - financial flexibility was a major one.

No, this isn't an overreaction from tonight's game. I hated the trade the second it happened. Regardless of what we do with the extra space, (and I'm sure we'll just overpay a so-so vet) we didn't get enough value for him. We traded the best player in the trade and basically got nothing. You don't salary dump 23 year olds

You can't just say 'regardless of what we do with the extra space' as if it's a throw away asset.

Having that extra space (along with the space created by trading Frye) could be the difference between acquiring 2 difference makers in the off-season.

People are so quick to judge trades - not just for the Magic but for every team. You can't analyse the trade in a vacuum which is what you're doing.

You can, because the fact of the matter is, Rob's goal was to attract free agents by winning more games. That has failed MISERABLY. Free agents are coming to this team. The kind of guys we need to elevate this team, are not coming. So we basically lost an asset for nothing. We gave away Harris for nothing basically.

[SOUL]

I don't give a **** what Skiles does off the court, I think the issue is we hold this super high standard to players who at worse are emotional and fiery on the court and point to that as an issue which our owner usually agrees with and have somebody like this as the coach which is pretty funny.

[npiper17]

No, this isn't an overreaction from tonight's game. I hated the trade the second it happened. Regardless of what we do with the extra space, (and I'm sure we'll just overpay a so-so vet) we didn't get enough value for him. We traded the best player in the trade and basically got nothing. You don't salary dump 23 year olds

You can't just say 'regardless of what we do with the extra space' as if it's a throw away asset.

Having that extra space (along with the space created by trading Frye) could be the difference between acquiring 2 difference makers in the off-season.

People are so quick to judge trades - not just for the Magic but for every team. You can't analyse the trade in a vacuum which is what you're doing.

You can, because the fact of the matter is, Rob's goal was to attract free agents by winning more games. That has failed MISERABLY. Free agents are coming to this team. The kind of guys we need to elevate this team, are not coming. So we basically lost an asset for nothing. We gave away Harris for nothing basically.

I'm not going to go over again how we did not 'give away Harris for nothing.' I don't know how many ways I need to write for you to understand that that wasn't the case.

Regardless, when you're done with your crystal ball can I borrow it?

And if the future is so bleak, why bother continuing to follow the team?

[Jameerthefear]

You can't just say 'regardless of what we do with the extra space' as if it's a throw away asset.

Having that extra space (along with the space created by trading Frye) could be the difference between acquiring 2 difference makers in the off-season.

People are so quick to judge trades - not just for the Magic but for every team. You can't analyse the trade in a vacuum which is what you're doing.

You can, because the fact of the matter is, Rob's goal was to attract free agents by winning more games. That has failed MISERABLY. Free agents are coming to this team. The kind of guys we need to elevate this team, are not coming. So we basically lost an asset for nothing. We gave away Harris for nothing basically.

I'm not going to go over again how we did not 'give away Harris for nothing.' I don't know how many ways I need to write for you to understand that that wasn't the case.

Regardless, when you're done with your crystal ball can I borrow it?

And if the future is so bleak, why bother continuing to follow the team?

Haha time for you to grow up dude. If you think this team is attracting big name free agents right now than you're delusional.

[ChosenSavior]

Just went through the last six pages of this thread to get an idea how this game went. Throughout the reading, you see posters blaming the players for not being able to perform and execute at this point this season. Others blame the coach for not putting these players in the best position to win, teaching these guys properly and make the necessary adjustments that is necessary to succeed in the NBA.

Honestly, blame should be shared by all parties. Our chemistry on both ends is arguably the worst in the NBA when watching this team play. The coaching from Skiles is not good at all either especially since we entered 2016. It is possible that this may be due to Skiles not having the players he wants to implement his system correctly. This what makes MagicStarSwipe's sig so cryptic. This franchise is going to be forced to make some very tough decisions in the next two summers while the cap is spiking. Some said that Skiles's seat is getting warm. Sadly I think it is going to be Rob who sees the axe if we cannot get this team turned around and going in the right direction next season.

[ORL_on_FIRE]

I wasn't going to comment on this game afterwards but why not?

All I have to say is Tobias did exactly what I expected him to do. He didn't show me anything different or special last night. He's just in a good situation.

He had his normal decent role player type game. Congrats.

[Nemesis21]

I want 50% off Papa Johns, don't f*ck this up Magic.

[ChosenSavior]

And yeah I do wish we would have given James Borrego a chance. He's been doing very solid in San Antonio as an assistant coach. It was not showing in the W/L column but we were playing very hard and inspired when he took over for Vaughn and he was a very solid teacher to boot.

[Nemesis21]

Just went through the last six pages of this thread to get an idea how this game went. Throughout the reading, you see posters blaming the players for not being able to perform and execute at this point this season. Others blame the coach for not putting these players in the best position to win, teaching these guys properly and make the necessary adjustments that is necessary to succeed in the NBA.

Honestly, blame should be shared by all parties. Our chemistry on both ends is arguably the worst in the NBA when watching this team play. The coaching from Skiles is not good at all either especially since we entered 2016. It is possible that this may be due to Skiles not having the players he wants to implement his system correctly. This what makes MagicStarSwipe's sig so cryptic. This franchise is going to be forced to make some very tough decisions in the next two summers while the cap is spiking. Some said that Skiles's seat is getting warm. Sadly I think it is going to be Rob who sees the axe if we cannot get this team turned around and going in the right direction next season.

I fear this, Skiles should be the one to go. I think Rob has done a pretty good job post Dwight, he's had some bad luck in the lottery. Hell the Cavs were pretty much gifted 3 #1 overall picks in the 4 seasons when LeBron left.
I think last year we needed the #1 pick, maybe kept JV until season's end & drive the tank full on. Wouldn't KAT look good in front court with AG and Vooch?

[npiper17]

You can, because the fact of the matter is, Rob's goal was to attract free agents by winning more games. That has failed MISERABLY. Free agents are coming to this team. The kind of guys we need to elevate this team, are not coming. So we basically lost an asset for nothing. We gave away Harris for nothing basically.

I'm not going to go over again how we did not 'give away Harris for nothing.' I don't know how many ways I need to write for you to understand that that wasn't the case.

Regardless, when you're done with your crystal ball can I borrow it?

And if the future is so bleak, why bother continuing to follow the team?

Haha time for you to grow up dude. If you think this team is attracting big name free agents right now than you're delusional.

So rather than discuss like an adult you decide to resort to cheap jibes. And I'm the one who needs to grow up?

Also tell me where I say we'll sign 'big name free agents.' I said I have confidence we'll get guys who can make a bigger impact on the record of this team than Tobias Harris (who btw was having limited impacted on the record of the team as it was).

If you're willing to discuss like an adult then fine otherwise, dude, keep your jibes to yourself.

[zelenooq]

What an ugly game...well, at least EP had a triple double, unfortunately it took 21 fga's to get there and 4 of the rebounds were off his own misses...at least its something I guess

I definitely don't want the Magic to tank, but its feeling like its going to happen regardless...

you don't need to tank,just give young prospects to develop through a game
that is the best way for them and than for the team
who knows,maybe they start to win
it doesn't means if you play mario more that you have to play shabazz or ily or jeggins or i don't know more
just our prospects
EP
oladipo
hezonja
AG
Vuc/?

and second unit
J
marble
fournier
AN
smith
if they start to win,it isn't tank
it is development
and if they not,it is tank but still development

[407Junkie]

That wasn't a Tobias for Jennings/Ilyasova trade, that was a Tobias [make way] for Gordon trade.

Tobias v Gordon statlines:

Tobias - 18pts (7-14, 1-3 3pts, 3-3FTs), 4rb, 3st, 2bl

Gordon - 15pts (5-15, 1-4 3pt, 4-4 FTs), 11rbs, 3asts

I think we've come out just fine.

It's time to stop defending that trade. Point blank, Rob didn't get enough value in that trade. He traded the best player involved that had the most potential and basically got nothing AND the trade didn't accomplish what they claimed to be going after (win now mode/playoffs). It's a massive fail by Rob. He really got played by Stan.

I don't like Tobias Harris game and approach to it one lick and even I can admit they got jack in that trade. It's almost a fireable offense to let someone rape you like that in a trade.

[Bensational]

That wasn't a Tobias for Jennings/Ilyasova trade, that was a Tobias [make way] for Gordon trade.

Tobias v Gordon statlines:

Tobias - 18pts (7-14, 1-3 3pts, 3-3FTs), 4rb, 3st, 2bl

Gordon - 15pts (5-15, 1-4 3pt, 4-4 FTs), 11rbs, 3asts

I think we've come out just fine.

It's time to stop defending that trade. Point blank, Rob didn't get enough value in that trade. He traded the best player involved that had the most potential and basically got nothing AND the trade didn't accomplish what they claimed to be going after (win now mode/playoffs). It's a massive fail by Rob. He really got played by Stan.

I don't like Tobias Harris game and approach to it one lick and even I can admit they got jack in that trade. It's almost a fireable offense to let someone rape you like that in a trade.

If you trade Harris, you want to turn him into 1 of 3 things:

1) A better player

You're not getting a star for Tobias. Were there actually any players better than Tobias who were traded? Anyway, you could argue that we got a better player now that Gordon is starting and getting more minutes.


2) A chance at a better player

A chance at a better player could either mean draft picks, a young prospect, or cap space. We promoted a young prospect, and freed up cap space.


3) Filling a need

We got a more appropriate PF and a veteran PG, both of which are familiar with Skiles' system. It hasn't done a thing to improve us, though, which doesn't say much for the coach's system.