End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
I agree that he's locked into the top 15. Efficiency around the rim and consistency from three and he's top 3. All-NBA defensive talent is always going to be there, just need to see that offensive efficiency, consistently.
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
Not much to add to what has been said. If the guy plays all season like he did post all-star break he'll be top 6. Granted SG is fairly weak in the NBA atm.
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
Im still really high on Dipo. When hes playing with confidence and is consistant hes pretty impressive. As many have said, added consistancy will push him outside of the X-Factor range and make him a bonafide contributor offensively. His passing and rebounds and defense are all an added plus and his shootings gotten much better.
The only thing that scares me is this is 2 straight years with sub par production pre all star break followed by the type of #s you like to see from your 2nd overall pick after the break.
I think hes top 10 easily and I think he can be better than Demar Derozen next season
The only thing that scares me is this is 2 straight years with sub par production pre all star break followed by the type of #s you like to see from your 2nd overall pick after the break.
I think hes top 10 easily and I think he can be better than Demar Derozen next season
The future is bright Payton said. ``I just want to keep getting better and maybe one day I can be the all-time all assists leader for the Magic.’’
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
seeingstars wrote:The only thing that scares me is this is 2 straight years with sub par production pre all star break followed by the type of #s you like to see from your 2nd overall pick after the break.
It is a strange thing, but if you think about the context - its kind of understandable.
He was asked to learn the NBA out of position at PG his rookie year. After more than a year of adapting his game and learning the NBA as a PG, he was asked to again switch back and learn how to play the NBA SG position.
Then in the training camp of that second season, as he is trying to re-adapt to the SG position; he fractures his face. This causes him to miss all of the remaining training camp, all of preseason and the first 10 games of the regular season...and he had to play with a mask for a month after that. In my opinion, you can't analyze his sophomore year slow start without that context.
Then in his 3d year, just as he's getting comfortable with his role, the Magic hire a new coach and now he has to adapt to an entirely new system where his role again is different, a hybrid of his first two years.
I think its fair to criticize him for not adapting faster to his changing role the third season - but two months to figure it out doesn't really seem that unusual for a young player - at least not to me...but I understand other might have a harsher line on that.
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
I give skiles his due on dipo. He pressed the right buttons and changed the instinct based moves into thought out and premeditated.
End of season dipo was top 10 for sure. He just needs to trust his teammates more at the end of games and stop trying to be the hero.
End of season dipo was top 10 for sure. He just needs to trust his teammates more at the end of games and stop trying to be the hero.
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
LacosteM wrote:Bensational wrote:I really don't rate Bradley. Good defender, but there's nothing about him that would make me want him to be a top 3 option on a good team. His numbers are all fine, just nothing special. He's not a sharpshooter, doesn't get to the FT line, doesn't get many assists.
Hood, on the other hand, I quite like and think is borderline Tier 3.
Well same could be kinda said about some of the players you put in tier 3.
Crawford - inefficient scorer, low rebounding and assist numbers, under-average defender.
JJ- Good shooter, doesn't excel in anything else
Fournier - Capable scorer, low rebounding and assist numbers, under-average defender. Doesn't really bring anything else to the table outside of scoring.
Bradley on the other hand brings you elite on ball defense ( can defend 1/2) and a decent shooting( 36 3p% on 5.4 3PA
I just might take Bradly over JJ, Fournier and Crawford.
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
Here's how Oladipo and Fournier measured up this season with other 25 and under SG's (+2000 minutes)
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
Evan had two blocks the entire season?!
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
SOUL wrote:Evan had two blocks the entire season?!
Yep
...and Fournier was also only one of three to shoot above .400 from beyond the arc. The other two were Klay Thompson and CJ McCollum...and he was also the second most efficient scorer of the pack as well (2nd in eFG% and TS% behind Klay Thompson).
I wonder what would happen if Fournier's field goal attempt volume (11.8) was increased to the level of Thompson (17.3) or CJ McCollum (17.9)?
Interestingly enough, Fournier was also 5th in Assists / 8th in AST% out of the 16 (so a little better than middle of the pack).
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
Another interesting stat was that Oladipo got to the line pretty good - in comparison to this group (2nd in FTA and FTr).
If he could raise his 3pt shooting volume and 3PT% it would really make an impact on his offensive output.
If he could raise his 3pt shooting volume and 3PT% it would really make an impact on his offensive output.
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
ezzzp wrote:Another interesting stat was that Oladipo got to the line pretty good - in comparison to this group (2nd in FTA and FTr).
If he could raise his 3pt shooting volume and 3PT% it would really make an impact on his offensive output.
most of those guys are 3 pt shooters, I'd still like to see Oladipo raise his FTR. He would become much more efficient
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
Zmill wrote:ezzzp wrote:Another interesting stat was that Oladipo got to the line pretty good - in comparison to this group (2nd in FTA and FTr).
If he could raise his 3pt shooting volume and 3PT% it would really make an impact on his offensive output.
most of those guys are 3 pt shooters, I'd still like to see Oladipo raise his FTR. He would become much more efficient
Oh yea, it would be great for him to improve his FTr as well...I was just surprised that really only Gordon Hayward draws a substantial amount of fouls...
I wonder if that has to do with age (how refs call young guys) or the dominance of elite scoring PG's in NBA right now and why most of young crop of SG's getting big minute roles are primarily 3pt shooters...or something else?
...also just noticed that Oladipo is actually 3d (behind Middleton) not 2nd in FTA/FTr
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
OrlDave wrote:Granted SG is fairly weak in the NBA atm.
Interesting.
With all the scoring PGs, I think you are on to something. Excellence at SG has declined with the emergence of SGs being "forced" to play SF and PGs playing SG-type roles.
The elusive natural-SG needs to be reclaimed!
I for one thing Oladipo is a better fit with Orlando than Fournier.
..
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
Anyone remember this thread?
2016 Victor Oladipo - A Star is Born
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1424154
Yeah a premature embarrassing moment.
But I still feel like Dipo is at least on the cusp of stardom. Especially if he keeps improving as a player.
This is what I see for him...
All-Star invite > Playoff Standout > Team USA > Stardom > Can recruit other stars to ORL if Henny keeps our cap space in check.
But in order for him to get to that first step, I think he's got to raise his USG% which will improve his PPG (which is the stat that will make him an All-Star). It's often said by Magic fans and Non-Magic fans that the Magic will have to choose between Oladipo and Fournier. I think that is true. They are two competing agents. Dipo needs to raise his USG% up to Klay Thompson and CJ McCollum levels (26+) and not keep it as it is (22+) in the range of Will Barton, Rodney Hood, Devin Booker...
I know it might be painful, but it very well may be in the Magic's best interest to S&T Fournier this offseason. If we don't use up our cap space on 2 max FAs this summer and then go over the cap to keep Fournier... and instead do something like sign 1 max FA and match Fournier, then we lose the value of Fournier's Bird Rights because instead of going over the cap to sign him, he'll just end up using our available cap space... and that sucks. Because instead of having the capability to do 2 max guys + Fournier, we get 1 max guy + Fournier and going forward can't chance another max UFA.
...unless we pull off another Tobias-like trade where we gain expirings...and what good did that really do for us? We were worried about "retaining the asset", but the asset never brought back another good player. If we match Fournier and the same thing happens, then we get stuck again... Playing Fournier minutes that younger guys could've gotten towards their development... having to put him on the trade block to see if we can get any value back.... and if we do, then we use up cap space which prevents us from being big players in FA during the 2017 summer, so that player has to be really worth it... if no value is found on the market like Tobias wasn't then we have to look for expirings... it's the same cycle. But doing a S&T now for Fournier might be better than expirings down the line. Especially if we can get draft picks.
Let's say this possibility occurs... that we don't sign any max FAs because our top targets don't want to be here (Durant/Whiteside/Conley).
If this happens to Oladipo next year... No Fournier on the team would raise his USG%... which could more easily lead to...
All-Star invite > Playoff Standout > Team USA consideration> Stardom > Can recruit other stars to ORL if Henny keeps our cap space in check.
Then next summer, we could sign 2 max FAs (lured in by our new star - Oladipo, something that we couldn't do this year) and then go over the cap to resign Oladipo.
2017 FAs
Curry, Westbrook, Griffin, CP3, Ibaka, Giannis, Lowry, Teague, Gobert, Millsap, Hewyard, Gallinari, Rose, Gay, Noel, Steven Adams, George Hill, Reddick, Korver, Bogut, Monroe, Iguodala, Schroeder, Mirotic, Taj, ZBo, Jrue, McCollum... the list goes on and on... and it doesn't include the FAs this year who might sign 1 year deals this summer... like Lebron, Dwight, KD possibly...
Catch the vision? If we don't sign 2 max guys and Fournier (Bird Rights) this summer, is it really worth using our available cap space to bring Fournier back and prevent us from signing 2 max guys in 2017? At a time when Oladipo's star could be bright?
2016 Victor Oladipo - A Star is Born
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1424154
Yeah a premature embarrassing moment.
But I still feel like Dipo is at least on the cusp of stardom. Especially if he keeps improving as a player.
This is what I see for him...
All-Star invite > Playoff Standout > Team USA > Stardom > Can recruit other stars to ORL if Henny keeps our cap space in check.
But in order for him to get to that first step, I think he's got to raise his USG% which will improve his PPG (which is the stat that will make him an All-Star). It's often said by Magic fans and Non-Magic fans that the Magic will have to choose between Oladipo and Fournier. I think that is true. They are two competing agents. Dipo needs to raise his USG% up to Klay Thompson and CJ McCollum levels (26+) and not keep it as it is (22+) in the range of Will Barton, Rodney Hood, Devin Booker...
I know it might be painful, but it very well may be in the Magic's best interest to S&T Fournier this offseason. If we don't use up our cap space on 2 max FAs this summer and then go over the cap to keep Fournier... and instead do something like sign 1 max FA and match Fournier, then we lose the value of Fournier's Bird Rights because instead of going over the cap to sign him, he'll just end up using our available cap space... and that sucks. Because instead of having the capability to do 2 max guys + Fournier, we get 1 max guy + Fournier and going forward can't chance another max UFA.
...unless we pull off another Tobias-like trade where we gain expirings...and what good did that really do for us? We were worried about "retaining the asset", but the asset never brought back another good player. If we match Fournier and the same thing happens, then we get stuck again... Playing Fournier minutes that younger guys could've gotten towards their development... having to put him on the trade block to see if we can get any value back.... and if we do, then we use up cap space which prevents us from being big players in FA during the 2017 summer, so that player has to be really worth it... if no value is found on the market like Tobias wasn't then we have to look for expirings... it's the same cycle. But doing a S&T now for Fournier might be better than expirings down the line. Especially if we can get draft picks.
Let's say this possibility occurs... that we don't sign any max FAs because our top targets don't want to be here (Durant/Whiteside/Conley).
If this happens to Oladipo next year... No Fournier on the team would raise his USG%... which could more easily lead to...
All-Star invite > Playoff Standout > Team USA consideration> Stardom > Can recruit other stars to ORL if Henny keeps our cap space in check.
Then next summer, we could sign 2 max FAs (lured in by our new star - Oladipo, something that we couldn't do this year) and then go over the cap to resign Oladipo.
2017 FAs
Curry, Westbrook, Griffin, CP3, Ibaka, Giannis, Lowry, Teague, Gobert, Millsap, Hewyard, Gallinari, Rose, Gay, Noel, Steven Adams, George Hill, Reddick, Korver, Bogut, Monroe, Iguodala, Schroeder, Mirotic, Taj, ZBo, Jrue, McCollum... the list goes on and on... and it doesn't include the FAs this year who might sign 1 year deals this summer... like Lebron, Dwight, KD possibly...
Catch the vision? If we don't sign 2 max guys and Fournier (Bird Rights) this summer, is it really worth using our available cap space to bring Fournier back and prevent us from signing 2 max guys in 2017? At a time when Oladipo's star could be bright?
Jett Howard, Franz Wagner, Paolo Banchero, Jonathan Isaac, Wendell Carter Jr
Anthony Black, Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, Joe Ingles, Chuma Okeke, Mo Wagner, Goga Bitadze LESSSGOOO!!!
Anthony Black, Cole Anthony, Jalen Suggs, Joe Ingles, Chuma Okeke, Mo Wagner, Goga Bitadze LESSSGOOO!!!
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
We are definitely in a quandry at shooting guard.
1. Evan clearly is talented and I think will get better, especially if he buys into making his teammates better. I'm betting that this next contract will take the pressure off and we'll see an even better Evan.
2. Oladipo in my view is on the verge of truly being a 2 way player with Allstar potential.
3. Hezonja - I just love the mismatch potential he brings at the 2 with consistent defense.
IT's going to be interesting to see how this summer plays out.
1. Evan clearly is talented and I think will get better, especially if he buys into making his teammates better. I'm betting that this next contract will take the pressure off and we'll see an even better Evan.
2. Oladipo in my view is on the verge of truly being a 2 way player with Allstar potential.
3. Hezonja - I just love the mismatch potential he brings at the 2 with consistent defense.
IT's going to be interesting to see how this summer plays out.
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
ezzzp wrote:Fournier was also only one of three to shoot above .400 from beyond the arc. The other two were Klay Thompson and CJ McCollum...and he was also the second most efficient scorer of the pack as well (2nd in eFG% and TS% behind Klay Thompson).
I wonder what would happen if Fournier's field goal attempt volume (11.8) was increased to the level of Thompson (17.3) or CJ McCollum (17.9)?
Yep, I've been wondering this myself lately. Fournier's FGAs and efficiency are perfect for a #3 option, but I wonder if he's got it in him to be a legit #1 option for our team, in the even that we strike out on FAs?
ezzzp wrote:Another interesting stat was that Oladipo got to the line pretty good - in comparison to this group (2nd in FTA and FTr).
If he could raise his 3pt shooting volume and 3PT% it would really make an impact on his offensive output.
Yeah, that was actually very interesting to see.
If he can make the leap in FTAs that DeRozan made in his 4th year, we could see a similar spike in his numbers and efficiency, too.
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
ezzzp wrote:seeingstars wrote:The only thing that scares me is this is 2 straight years with sub par production pre all star break followed by the type of #s you like to see from your 2nd overall pick after the break.
It is a strange thing, but if you think about the context - its kind of understandable.
He was asked to learn the NBA out of position at PG his rookie year. After more than a year of adapting his game and learning the NBA as a PG, he was asked to again switch back and learn how to play the NBA SG position.
Then in the training camp of that second season, as he is trying to re-adapt to the SG position; he fractures his face. This causes him to miss all of the remaining training camp, all of preseason and the first 10 games of the regular season...and he had to play with a mask for a month after that. In my opinion, you can't analyze his sophomore year slow start without that context.
Then in his 3d year, just as he's getting comfortable with his role, the Magic hire a new coach and now he has to adapt to an entirely new system where his role again is different, a hybrid of his first two years.
I think its fair to criticize him for not adapting faster to his changing role the third season - but two months to figure it out doesn't really seem that unusual for a young player - at least not to me...but I understand other might have a harsher line on that.
Nice breakdown never looked at it like that.
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
NavalAviator94 wrote:We are definitely in a quandry at shooting guard.
1. Evan clearly is talented and I think will get better, especially if he buys into making his teammates better. I'm betting that this next contract will take the pressure off and we'll see an even better Evan.
2. Oladipo in my view is on the verge of truly being a 2 way player with Allstar potential.
3. Hezonja - I just love the mismatch potential he brings at the 2 with consistent defense.
IT's going to be interesting to see how this summer plays out.
We obviously cannot keep all these players, would anyone trade maybe Oladipo for Kris Dunn?
We need more a more consistent PG.
Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
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Re: End of Season Series: Victor Oladipo
T-Cat wrote:NavalAviator94 wrote:We are definitely in a quandry at shooting guard.
1. Evan clearly is talented and I think will get better, especially if he buys into making his teammates better. I'm betting that this next contract will take the pressure off and we'll see an even better Evan.
2. Oladipo in my view is on the verge of truly being a 2 way player with Allstar potential.
3. Hezonja - I just love the mismatch potential he brings at the 2 with consistent defense.
IT's going to be interesting to see how this summer plays out.
We obviously cannot keep all these players, would anyone trade maybe Oladipo for Kris Dunn?
We need more a more consistent PG.
So you'd trade Oladipo for an unproven rookie in a weak draft?
Makes sense...