Is Evan Fournier worth a max?

[fendilim]

There has been some talk that Danny Green could be made available to clear some cap room for San Antonio to pursue Durant/Conley/something. I know it's a long shot, but I'd much rather we absorbed his contract than hand out a fat extension to a '3 and no D' Fournier.

Why?

Short version: Better player on a cheaper contract.

He is vastly superior defensively and is one of the best 3-point marksmen in the league (or at least he has been over the four seasons preceding this past one). He is locked up for the next two seasons at 10M per year. He probably won't be available, but the unique conditions of this upcoming summer might lead SA to shop him as a salary dump.

Is he really better though? Seems to me like Fournier is becoming vastly underrated here. For a team that lacks offensive players, Fournier ability to create is more important that Green's 3 and D.

[SOUL]

My question is how much he'll be able to get out of the creation. There is no doubt he creates a lot of space with his drives, but he often bulldozes into getting his shot blocked. His value is in his shot and in his ability to get fouls drawn, but I think I actually trust all other 4 starters + Hezonja more as far as moving the ball and making the correct pass without putting much thought into it.

Fournier and that little hiccup when it comes to ball movement is my biggest issue with him. Without that hiccup, I'd probably want him signed 100% no matter the contract (except something absurd).

[MagicStarwipe]

Fournier only plays selfishly because everyone else other than Vuc sucks. It's Fournier and Vuc's world baby. Everybody else is just along for the ride. #2017champs #skilesknewthedeal

[Bensational]

Give Fournier a season under Vogel, and I think he'll win a lot of you over. He's got the potential to be a 4apg guy pretty easily, IMO. He just needs the right role, and right coach.

[Isma]

I am probably biased because I am French , but I think that Fournier is a great SG, and his elite offensive ratings are a proof. He's an average/good defender when he is playing SG due to his length, hustle and athletism. You can't judge him on his d-ratings of this year, since he was forced to play SF to help the team. And at this position is losing every advantage he 's got at SG.

I agree with guys saying that Orlando got too many SG, but the one that should be traded or removed, isn't Fournier. Oladipo has not progressed since his rookie season, and he still has the same problems in his game (TUR, %3pts, consistency). And Hezonja was a little disappointing in his first season.

Moreover, Fournier can be a decent starter in a contender lineup like the 3rd offensive option (and he will not cost you point on the other side of the court if he is playing SG).

Lastly, i don't understand why people critcize him because he's a black hole offensively. I mean a black hole that gives you very few TUR, 46% shot made and 40% behind the 3 point line, is a really effective one.

Sorry for my poor english but i needed to defend my fellow countryman !

[NavalAviator94]

Why?

Yeah - Me neither. Now, what would be interesting to me is if they had a shot at Mike C and wanted to move Parker. I would love to have Parker for a couple of years teaching elf and the others.

Haha that would be hilarious...


15 year veteran, future hall of famer and former finals mvp Parker gets traded to the Magic of all teams so they can have Conley...

I'm pretty sure SAS isn't like that. There's a true legacy there with the big 3 and they're all likely to finish their careers with the Spurs.

Yeah - I have a hard time believing Pop would do that either but I would welcome it if he did. I'm just not sure what they do if they have a real shot at Mike C. They would likely move Parker to a place of his choice and we aren't a bad place for him to consider. It's not out of the realm of possibility considering Gasol even told the media his brother should join the Spurs. The reality is Tony Parker will play out the last 2 years of his contract and retire.

[NavalAviator94]

There has been some talk that Danny Green could be made available to clear some cap room for San Antonio to pursue Durant/Conley/something. I know it's a long shot, but I'd much rather we absorbed his contract than hand out a fat extension to a '3 and no D' Fournier.

If we couldn't get Conley, I'd take Parker off SA's hands so they could chase him.

I just saw this...right before my post by a few minutes. You and I are thinking the same thing.

[Def Swami]

Some of you guys act like he was a ball hog or just chucking up bad shots like he's Dion Waiters. Despite low assist numbers, I'm not ditching the most efficient player on the team.

[NavalAviator94]

My question is how much he'll be able to get out of the creation. There is no doubt he creates a lot of space with his drives, but he often bulldozes into getting his shot blocked. His value is in his shot and in his ability to get fouls drawn, but I think I actually trust all other 4 starters + Hezonja more as far as moving the ball and making the correct pass without putting much thought into it.

Fournier and that little hiccup when it comes to ball movement is my biggest issue with him. Without that hiccup, I'd probably want him signed 100% no matter the contract (except something absurd).

I'm hopeful that he'll get better. He's still young, the pressure of his contract will be off and I'm hopeful with Vogel's help he'll begin to make those better around him.

[shinoff2183]

I am probably biased because I am French , but I think that Fournier is a great SG, and his elite offensive ratings are a proof. He's an average/good defender when he is playing SG due to his length, hustle and athletism. You can't judge him on his d-ratings of this year, since he was forced to play SF to help the team. And at this position is losing every advantage he 's got at SG.

I agree with guys saying that Orlando got too many SG, but the one that should be traded or removed, isn't Fournier. Oladipo has not progressed since his rookie season, and he still has the same problems in his game (TUR, %3pts, consistency). And Hezonja was a little disappointing in his first season.

Moreover, Fournier can be a decent starter in a contender lineup like the 3rd offensive option (and he will not cost you point on the other side of the court if he is playing SG).

Lastly, i don't understand why people critcize him because he's a black hole offensively. I mean a black hole that gives you very few TUR, 46% shot made and 40% behind the 3 point line, is a really effective one.

Sorry for my poor english but i needed to defend my fellow countryman !

Dipo had 2.1 average for the season for TO, Evan had 1.7, Seems like a reach.
Just throwing that out there. Again dipo is miles ahead of evan defensively. I wouldnt want to give up that defense. I also wouldnt go into saying "Fournier is a great SG, and his elite offensive ratings are a proof" A great SG to me plays great on both sides of the ball not just offensively.
Is 46 FG and 40 on threes elite? Thats a real question.

[fendilim]

I am probably biased because I am French , but I think that Fournier is a great SG, and his elite offensive ratings are a proof. He's an average/good defender when he is playing SG due to his length, hustle and athletism. You can't judge him on his d-ratings of this year, since he was forced to play SF to help the team. And at this position is losing every advantage he 's got at SG.

I agree with guys saying that Orlando got too many SG, but the one that should be traded or removed, isn't Fournier. Oladipo has not progressed since his rookie season, and he still has the same problems in his game (TUR, %3pts, consistency). And Hezonja was a little disappointing in his first season.

Moreover, Fournier can be a decent starter in a contender lineup like the 3rd offensive option (and he will not cost you point on the other side of the court if he is playing SG).

Lastly, i don't understand why people critcize him because he's a black hole offensively. I mean a black hole that gives you very few TUR, 46% shot made and 40% behind the 3 point line, is a really effective one.

Sorry for my poor english but i needed to defend my fellow countryman !

dont cross that line.

[tiderulz]

I am probably biased because I am French , but I think that Fournier is a great SG, and his elite offensive ratings are a proof. He's an average/good defender when he is playing SG due to his length, hustle and athletism. You can't judge him on his d-ratings of this year, since he was forced to play SF to help the team. And at this position is losing every advantage he 's got at SG.

I agree with guys saying that Orlando got too many SG, but the one that should be traded or removed, isn't Fournier. Oladipo has not progressed since his rookie season, and he still has the same problems in his game (TUR, %3pts, consistency). And Hezonja was a little disappointing in his first season.

Moreover, Fournier can be a decent starter in a contender lineup like the 3rd offensive option (and he will not cost you point on the other side of the court if he is playing SG).

Lastly, i don't understand why people critcize him because he's a black hole offensively. I mean a black hole that gives you very few TUR, 46% shot made and 40% behind the 3 point line, is a really effective one.

Sorry for my poor english but i needed to defend my fellow countryman !

I'll give Fournier kudo's for effort, but i dont know that i can call him a good defender, especially at SG because he seems a tad slower there. At SF, he gives up some size but has a small speed advantage.

[Isma]

Firstly my bad about Oladipo TUR, i didn't realize, he improved this much on this part of his game.

I am wondering, what do you expect from Oladipo ? In your opinion, what is his ceiling ?

I know the topic is about Fournier, but I think it's mandatory to know what we expect from Dipo to decide what Fournier deserves.

[Xatticus]

Is he really better though? Seems to me like Fournier is becoming vastly underrated here. For a team that lacks offensive players, Fournier ability to create is more important that Green's 3 and D.

He may offer more variety offensively than Green does, but that isn't the same thing as creating for others. The vast majority of those drives to the basket came off of a play designed for him to curl off of a screen. He is pretty effective at using screens and using his body/length to create space for himself when he is on the move. He doesn't really create for himself or for anyone else.

The major difference to me is that Green is a very good and versatile defender, while Fournier is well below average in that regard. From my experience, players whose value is derived almost exclusively from the offensive end tend to be overrated, not underrated.

There is only so much possession to go around on the offensive end. We tend to overvalue the usefulness of offensive skills when in possession, and undervalue those skills that don't require possession. I don't think Orlando suffers from a lack of offensive players, but rather from a poor combination of skill sets at that end of the floor. I think Green replicates most of the offensive value that Fournier provides, but he is a massive upgrade on the defensive end.

[Xatticus]

Firstly my bad about Oladipo TUR, i didn't realize, he improved this much on this part of his game.

I am wondering, what do you expect from Oladipo ? In your opinion, what is his ceiling ?

I know the topic is about Fournier, but I think it's mandatory to know what we expect from Dipo to decide what Fournier deserves.

I actually think the Vogel hiring will benefit Oladipo more than any other player on the roster. He has the tools to be an exceptional defender, but he isn't there yet. Vogel will help him get there. Offensively, it is obvious that he has worked on his shot and has cut down on his turnovers. The problem is that he styles himself a jump shooter, likes the mid-range shot, and likes to pound the ball in isolations before settling for something far from the basket. This is probably because he has grown up idolizing Wade. This season, under Skiles, his offensive game moved away from the paint, and he wasn't exactly good at getting to the free throw line before. This needs rectified. He needs to be more efficient with his possession and he needs to utilize his athleticism more at the offensive end. He just doesn't shoot well enough to play the kind of game he wants to.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I think its funny that people would drop everything to max out a regressing and injury prone Horford but not Fournier. Evan has been improving every year since hes come into the NBA and deserves a payday. I hope we keep him.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I am probably biased because I am French , but I think that Fournier is a great SG, and his elite offensive ratings are a proof. He's an average/good defender when he is playing SG due to his length, hustle and athletism. You can't judge him on his d-ratings of this year, since he was forced to play SF to help the team. And at this position is losing every advantage he 's got at SG.

I agree with guys saying that Orlando got too many SG, but the one that should be traded or removed, isn't Fournier. Oladipo has not progressed since his rookie season, and he still has the same problems in his game (TUR, %3pts, consistency). And Hezonja was a little disappointing in his first season.

Moreover, Fournier can be a decent starter in a contender lineup like the 3rd offensive option (and he will not cost you point on the other side of the court if he is playing SG).

Lastly, i don't understand why people critcize him because he's a black hole offensively. I mean a black hole that gives you very few TUR, 46% shot made and 40% behind the 3 point line, is a really effective one.

Sorry for my poor english but i needed to defend my fellow countryman !

Dipo had 2.1 average for the season for TO, Evan had 1.7, Seems like a reach.
Just throwing that out there. Again dipo is miles ahead of evan defensively. I wouldnt want to give up that defense. I also wouldnt go into saying "Fournier is a great SG, and his elite offensive ratings are a proof" A great SG to me plays great on both sides of the ball not just offensively.
Is 46 FG and 40 on threes elite? Thats a real question.

Among SG's Evan is tied for 5th in 3PT FG%, and 3rd in 2P% with an ADJ FG% of .546% which is good for 3rd. Fournier had a great season and I hope they bring him back. That doesn't mean I'd trade Oladipo or that Mario isn't a good player just saying that I'd keep all three and it would be a hell of a rotation.

[LBPTarHeel27]

I think its funny that people would drop everything to max out a regressing and injury prone Horford but not Fournier. Evan has been improving every year since hes come into the NBA and deserves a payday. I hope we keep him.

I think the answer is simple in both regards...a short, 1-and-1 style max deal for both Horford and Fournier. You do it for different reasons but at the end of the day, neither are really worth a max deal at this stage of their careers.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I think its funny that people would drop everything to max out a regressing and injury prone Horford but not Fournier. Evan has been improving every year since hes come into the NBA and deserves a payday. I hope we keep him.

I think the answer is simple in both regards...a short, 1-and-1 style max deal for both Horford and Fournier. You do it for different reasons but at the end of the day, neither are really worth a max deal at this stage of their careers.

The landscape will dictate that but if it came down to max deals Fournier would be the obvious choice imo due to his youth and the fact that he could get even better. We already have our Horford, without the injuries.

[axl_c_cool]

I think its funny that people would drop everything to max out a regressing and injury prone Horford but not Fournier. Evan has been improving every year since hes come into the NBA and deserves a payday. I hope we keep him.

I think the answer is simple in both regards...a short, 1-and-1 style max deal for both Horford and Fournier. You do it for different reasons but at the end of the day, neither are really worth a max deal at this stage of their careers.

Never thought of that and it is obvious, I think 2 and 1 year deals are more likely though, and it would make both contract moveable