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10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge

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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#341 » by npiper17 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:43 pm

Def Swami wrote:Thoughts from last night's game:

- Overall, much improved play.

- Aaron Gordon had a much better night. 15 points and 6 rebounds on 4/9 and, more importantly, 7 free throw attempts! He just looked far more resolute in his movement and decision-making in the 2nd half last night. That's all I want to see; just have some confidence, play with aggression, and don't be afraid to make mistakes. His activity level will produce more good than mistakes.

- Payton still can't shoot. :( He looked more assertive throughout the night and played good defense. But the jumpshot just isn't a thing yet. 4/13 from the floor with a 1:4 assist to TO ratio is pretty horrid from your starting point guard. I really want to believe in Elfrid, but he's makes it really hard right now.

- All aboard the CJ Wilcox bandwagon! I really like this kid. He'll likely be nothing more than a guy off the bench to space the floor for us, but I've really liked his defense and activity so far. He's making the most of his time and shooting the well in preseason. He just has a good vibe about him; I also have an irrational like for any guy from Washington.

- That money we invested in our bench this off-season may really pay off for us. Biyombo was very productive and active for us again tonight with 9/9/2. I really liked the look with both CJ's; Watson's size and defense was a nice change up from Augustin.

Jeff Green continues to be a pleasant surprise with his shooting and shot-making. He's a vet and you can tell how much slower the game is going for him compared to young guys like Hezonja and Gordon. Also 5 more free throw attempts from Green! There was also a nice moment where Gordon and Green were able to cause some havoc on the floor together with their switching on defense. Having good scoring from our bench is going to be key this year. I'm excited for them to continuously dig our starters out of holes this season. :clown:

- Teams still killing us in pick n' roll with Vucevic. The wrap on Vucevic's weakness to defend it is well-known and we should expect teams to continue to exploit it. Ibaka's presence as a shot-blocker is really mitigated in these situations when you have him standing in the far corners defending stretch 4's like Thad Young. Monta Ellis and Jeff Teague had their way with this last night. This is such a tough balance for Vogel to strike. You could sub Biyombo in for Vucevic, but you then miss the passing and playmaking from Vucevic, and like it or not, Vucevic is still the only guy on the team who you can throw the ball to and get you a bucket. In crunch time, they went to Vucevic on the block a few times knowing he had the upper hand and he produced.

- So glad to see Vogel sub in players for offense and defense. Skiles NEVER did this all last year and it infuriated me. It almost felt like he wanted to throw the game smh. But Vogel recognizes the conundrum I mentioned above and is being wise with his possessions. It could really help us close some of those close games we lost all last year.

- When we acquired Serge Ibaka, there was a thread about what to expect. I recall believing he could average around 16-17 ppg, 9 rpg, and 2 bpg. At 26 with the dearth of scoring on our team, I'm standing by that prediction. He's the 2nd best/most reliable shooter in our starting lineup so he will be relied upon to score the ball a lot. Great game by Ibaka. Like others mentioned, you can tell that Jeff Green and Serge Ibaka have become the more vocal leaders on this team.

- Hezonja had 6 points, 3 TO's, and was -18 in 30 minutes. He's just not taking advantage of his minutes. My expectations for him are pretty low at this point. Like Elfrid, I'm rooting for him, but I'm still waiting to see the appeal.


Not sure if you're forgetting about Fournier because he didn't play last night but I anticipate he will be option number 1 in crunch time. He's also a guy you can give it to in crunch time and expect he'll either score or create.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#342 » by PennytoShaq » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:19 pm

Mario definitely will need to step up his game as Rudez, Green, Meeks and Wilcox can shoot the ball very very well. Once Meeks gets back, Mario could be in trouble in terms of logging minutes.

That being said, I believe Frank will give him a fair shot at showing what he can do. He got a ton of minutes last night and played ok, but 6 points from a guy expected to be a scorer will not cut it in regular season.

What magnifies it is a young bench guy like Wilcox coming in and playing his role - knocking down open 3s and moving the ball. And Meeks will be even better at it as long as he is healthy.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#343 » by pepe1991 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:51 pm

I would like to know what a F is going on in Hezonjas head.He went from guy who was agressive scorer ( especially in younger selections when he was MVP of Eurobasket with 20+ppg) , guy who was bombing 3s for Barcelona to passing passer who looks for assists much more than for his shos. It's not only for Magic, it's for Croatia too. He is just so damn passive and too unselfish.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#344 » by OrlandoDream » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:11 pm

thelead wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:One thing about Elfrid that may be overlooked is how Frank is switching him on to SGs and even SFs. He was guarding PG13 now and then and he did quite well. That is a huge bonus for our defense.


Overlooked because people want to do nothing but obsess over his shooting... after 2 pre-season games.

I'm seeing nothing but positive talk in this thread for Elf... :roll:


It's PRESEASON. AG and Elfrid are just getting their rhythm back. They missed training camp with injuries and need to catch up to the rest of the team. He has played 51 minutes and that's a big enough sample size for #henotready?

Season hasn't started yet and already need my "Feel like I'm taking crazy pills" Mugatu gif.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#345 » by thelead » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:34 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:
thelead wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Overlooked because people want to do nothing but obsess over his shooting... after 2 pre-season games.

I'm seeing nothing but positive talk in this thread for Elf... :roll:


It's PRESEASON. AG and Elfrid are just getting their rhythm back. They missed training camp with injuries and need to catch up to the rest of the team. He has played 51 minutes and that's a big enough sample size for #henotready?

Season hasn't started yet and already need my "Feel like I'm taking crazy pills" Mugatu gif.

Again, I'm seeing a ton of positive comments in this thread.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#346 » by NavalAviator94 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:03 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I would like to know what a F is going on in Hezonjas head.He went from guy who was agressive scorer ( especially in younger selections when he was MVP of Eurobasket with 20+ppg) , guy who was bombing 3s for Barcelona to passing passer who looks for assists much more than for his shos. It's not only for Magic, it's for Croatia too. He is just so damn passive and too unselfish.


He's over thinking things right now. Game is still pretty fast for him and a new coach. I think we'll see him begin to be more instinctive over the coming year and he'll be just fine.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#347 » by zelenooq » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:32 pm

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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#348 » by The Other Ankle » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:35 pm

Def Swami wrote:
- Teams still killing us in pick n' roll with Vucevic. The wrap on Vucevic's weakness to defend it is well-known and we should expect teams to continue to exploit it. Ibaka's presence as a shot-blocker is really mitigated in these situations when you have him standing in the far corners defending stretch 4's like Thad Young. Monta Ellis and Jeff Teague had their way with this last night. This is such a tough balance for Vogel to strike. You could sub Biyombo in for Vucevic, but you then miss the passing and playmaking from Vucevic, and like it or not, Vucevic is still the only guy on the team who you can throw the ball to and get you a bucket. In crunch time, they went to Vucevic on the block a few times knowing he had the upper hand and he produced.

- So glad to see Vogel sub in players for offense and defense. Skiles NEVER did this all last year and it infuriated me. It almost felt like he wanted to throw the game smh. But Vogel recognizes the conundrum I mentioned above and is being wise with his possessions. It could really help us close some of those close games we lost all last year.



I'll bet we add some sort of Blitz trap/double with the closest defender other than the two in the pick-and-roll. This would force the ball-handler to find one of the three other guys not in the play through a double team, and Vuc would gravitate back to the big.

Just a wrinkle that could blow up some plays if isolating Vuc is costing us.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#349 » by PrimeThyme » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:40 pm

Read on Twitter

:nod:
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10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#350 » by Def Swami » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:16 pm

The Other Ankle wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
- Teams still killing us in pick n' roll with Vucevic. The wrap on Vucevic's weakness to defend it is well-known and we should expect teams to continue to exploit it. Ibaka's presence as a shot-blocker is really mitigated in these situations when you have him standing in the far corners defending stretch 4's like Thad Young. Monta Ellis and Jeff Teague had their way with this last night. This is such a tough balance for Vogel to strike. You could sub Biyombo in for Vucevic, but you then miss the passing and playmaking from Vucevic, and like it or not, Vucevic is still the only guy on the team who you can throw the ball to and get you a bucket. In crunch time, they went to Vucevic on the block a few times knowing he had the upper hand and he produced.

- So glad to see Vogel sub in players for offense and defense. Skiles NEVER did this all last year and it infuriated me. It almost felt like he wanted to throw the game smh. But Vogel recognizes the conundrum I mentioned above and is being wise with his possessions. It could really help us close some of those close games we lost all last year.



I'll bet we add some sort of Blitz trap/double with the closest defender other than the two in the pick-and-roll. This would force the ball-handler to find one of the three other guys not in the play through a double team, and Vuc would gravitate back to the big.

Just a wrinkle that could blow up some plays if isolating Vuc is costing us.

You're right. They've experimented with it some from what I've noticed. Oftentimes Gordon or Fournier helps off their guy on the strong side. Ive liked it so far. Teague and Ellis are just really good off the dribble and exploiting mismatches off switches.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#351 » by thelead » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:08 pm

Def Swami wrote:
The Other Ankle wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
- Teams still killing us in pick n' roll with Vucevic. The wrap on Vucevic's weakness to defend it is well-known and we should expect teams to continue to exploit it. Ibaka's presence as a shot-blocker is really mitigated in these situations when you have him standing in the far corners defending stretch 4's like Thad Young. Monta Ellis and Jeff Teague had their way with this last night. This is such a tough balance for Vogel to strike. You could sub Biyombo in for Vucevic, but you then miss the passing and playmaking from Vucevic, and like it or not, Vucevic is still the only guy on the team who you can throw the ball to and get you a bucket. In crunch time, they went to Vucevic on the block a few times knowing he had the upper hand and he produced.

- So glad to see Vogel sub in players for offense and defense. Skiles NEVER did this all last year and it infuriated me. It almost felt like he wanted to throw the game smh. But Vogel recognizes the conundrum I mentioned above and is being wise with his possessions. It could really help us close some of those close games we lost all last year.



I'll bet we add some sort of Blitz trap/double with the closest defender other than the two in the pick-and-roll. This would force the ball-handler to find one of the three other guys not in the play through a double team, and Vuc would gravitate back to the big.

Just a wrinkle that could blow up some plays if isolating Vuc is costing us.

You're right. They've experimented with it some from what I've noticed. Oftentimes Gordon or Fournier helps off their guy on the strong side. Ive liked it so far. Teague and Ellis are just really good off the dribble and exploiting mismatches off switches.

I'm just going to quote this because it was beautiful to see Vogel already doing the little things. I'm still giddy that we have him on our bench.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#352 » by KillMonger » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:29 am

PrimeShaq wrote:
Read on Twitter

:nod:

bold statement
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#353 » by JF5 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:11 am

PrimeShaq wrote:
Read on Twitter

:nod:


Can care less about talk... Lets see the wins...

BTW, doesn't this team remind any of you of that Milwaukee team that made it to the playoffs a few years back?
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#354 » by Orlwillbeback » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:15 am

JF5 wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
Read on Twitter

:nod:


Can care less about talk... Lets see the wins...

BTW, doesn't this team remind any of you of that Milwaukee team that made it to the playoffs a few years back?


No.

Why would it?
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10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#355 » by PrimeThyme » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:37 am

JF5 wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
Read on Twitter

:nod:


Can care less about talk... Lets see the wins...

BTW, doesn't this team remind any of you of that Milwaukee team that made it to the playoffs a few years back?

Agree completely. I just like the mindset he's trying to give our players. It's going to be crucial to have that mindset if we are going to make a strong push for the playoffs.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#356 » by zelenooq » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:13 am

Hezonja loves to loose :)
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#357 » by OrlandoDream » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:23 pm

zelenooq wrote:Hezonja loves to loose :)
Read on Twitter

I like that he is competitive but that was unprofessional of him. He needs to be more composed. Congratulate your teammate and practice more so you best him next time. Kicking the ball and walking away without shaking hands is childish. Shows that Mario still has much maturing to do. I'm sure Vogel talked to him about this.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#358 » by Orlwillbeback » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:38 pm

Mario needs a psychologist
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#359 » by RickB-Orlando » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:53 pm

JF5 wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
Read on Twitter

:nod:


Can care less about talk... Lets see the wins...

BTW, doesn't this team remind any of you of that Milwaukee team that made it to the playoffs a few years back?


No, not really. Actually not at all.
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Re: 10/14 Preseason Game: Pacers vs Magic - Vogel's Revenge 

Post#360 » by JF5 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:06 pm

Orlwillbeback wrote:
JF5 wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
Read on Twitter

:nod:


Can care less about talk... Lets see the wins...

BTW, doesn't this team remind any of you of that Milwaukee team that made it to the playoffs a few years back?


No.

Why would it?


Strength is off the defense... Few reliable offensive options, a pretty good bench, and a team mixed with youth and experience?

That's what they had a few years back.

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