Re-Opening Night Version 2: Magic (0-1) @ Pistons (0-1)

[BadMofoPimp]

WHo the **** said anything about giving dipo the max???
He wasnt a FA, we could of kept him and then traded him at any point this year and gotten MUCH MUCH more than Ibaka, who everyone knew was done.

But you say give dipo the max is bad, just wait til Hennigan gives it to Ibaka in 9 months

You follow basketball? Dipo wants a max extension this season. Rob knew this and didn't want to pay it. Common knowledge by now I thought.

Not sure I'm following this rationalization


You do realize that due to Ibaka's tenure in the league means he has a significantly higher max salary next year?

Nobody did answer my question:

Which one will get the bigger contract?

Which one will be better 2-3 years after that contract, a still young Dipo or a 30 year old Ibaka who has already appeared to have slowed down?

[Mc-o]

Why isn't it a debate that he's more effective at the 4? What irrefutable proof has been put on the table that says AG was more effective as a 4 last year than he's shown in 2 games this season?

What was so much better about AG at the 4 last season?

He had a much bigger impact on the games ,

Thanks for the scientific and factual input... and wasting my time.

It is true ! Idk what ur problem is ,just cause AG is not as good at SF as he is PF is not a bad thing , he can play both but he is more of a 4 ! That's all I'm saying !!!! Just like Josh smith was better at the 4 but could play both

[BadMofoPimp]

5 years ago I got trashed for defending him, but I gotta say it again!

Ish Smith Gonna Prove Ya'll Wrong!!!

He is a decent NBA player even though most thought him a d-leager at best.

[Bergmaniac]

What a terrible game. I expected a loss but getting destroyed by a Detroit without Reggie Jackson playing is just terrible.

17 mln. per year for a centre who can't do anything on offense except dunk. What a great idea, especially for a team which was already subpar offensively and lacking big stars.

WTF happened to Ibaka's post game and aggressiveness we saw in preseason? He looks like he is scared to go inside and only takes jumpshots, a lot of them contested long 2s which he keeps missing. And on defense he is late to everything.

[Moses ShamMoses]

What the heck happened to Ibaka? Is he declining already or just adjusting to a new team? He had a down year last season I believe too...I wonder if he's actually older than his listed age.

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[PrimeThyme]

Some quick thoughts on Gordon SF that is topic right now.

Gordon last night was doing fine, his game vs Miami was much worst. He left Babbit wide open many times, but Babbit couldn't connect his shots ( 3-10 ,all wide open, look full highlights to see how wide open he was) .He "eat" few pumpfakes where he is relaying on his leaping ablity to bail him out for being out of position.
I'm not sold on Gordon at SF yet, i think he should play PF especially if Ibaka will be this bad, but Gordon is least of our problems.

Other starters + Green are bigger problems.
Evan last year benefited from playing SF and from fact that opponents didn't scout or prepare for him well. He had element of suprise. Now at SG he can't beat players off dribble and all his shots are contested. ( Naturally SFs are bit bigger but also bit slower so he had missmatch at offense all the time ). ( And we didn't even faced team with good SG yet )
Vučević is just bad. Even at his best he is volumen scorer with medicore effiicency for C who can't defend. That rebounds are fools gold and results of him not contesting shots.
Biyombo, well it's just one game but for people who saw him before this butterfingers are no suprise.
Ibaka 56 min zero assists, medicore rebounder, overrated defender, no offensive game whatsoever.
Green. Jesus. Is there anything that he can do well ? He gets abused on defense all the time.

Positive note? Well Payton was solid in first 15 min. Gordon and Mario put some garbage time point, Mario looks better on defense ( at least makes less mistakes ) than most of other Magic players. Zimmy got some playing time ! And game was competitve for 12 min .

Reality: this starting line up can't produce well enough to cover all their defensive wounds. Payton and VUčević are getting abused by third string PGs like Beno Udrih and on offense there is no ball movment.


Next stop : Lebron. At least we play 76ers after that.

It's not like the 76ers are an easy out either. Very well could start out 0-4.

[pepe1991]

What the heck happened to Ibaka? Is he declining already or just adjusting to a new team? He had a down year last season I believe too...I wonder if he's actually older than his listed age.

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Few years ago ,there was story he is like 5,6 years older than he says. If he is 34 now that would explane why he is on decline for 3 years now. And you have some "proofs" like declining athletic gift, not being able to leap that high any more, running much slower....

[PrimeThyme]

What the heck happened to Ibaka? Is he declining already or just adjusting to a new team? He had a down year last season I believe too...I wonder if he's actually older than his listed age.

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Idk, he looked good in preseason. Had us believing he could take on a significant role in the offense. But it's been all downhill thus far this season. He's playing horrendous defense on top of it now.

[Bensational]

He had a much bigger impact on the games ,

Thanks for the scientific and factual input... and wasting my time.

It is true ! Idk what ur problem is ,just cause AG is not as good at SF as he is PF is not a bad thing , he can play both but he is more of a 4 ! That's all I'm saying !!!! Just like Josh smith was better at the 4 but could play both

Oh well, since you say it's true then I apologise for having an opinion of my own.

My problem is people like you and JF5 who just state opinion as if it's fact. JF5 makes stuff up, and you just think that stating your opinion makes it true.

If AG was so much better at PF and had so much more of an impact at PF then there must be some kind of quantifiable data to support it.

What we DID see with AG at the 4 last season was a guy who was used minimally. His talents and potential were being wasted. If you think that him standing in the corner or waiting under the rim was the best way to use him, then say it. If you think he defended the paint better than he defends the perimeter (or, overall, that AG in the paint and Fournier at the 3 was better than Ibaka in the paint and AG at the 3 - which, at this point wouldn't be incorrect since Ibaka has sucked arse) then say it.

Use your words and don't just throw out pointless blanket statements that don't mean anything.

[Bergmaniac]

Ibaka played pretty great defense in the playoffs last season and shot very high percentages too. I think it's more about effort with him than anything.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Honestly, I'd rather just let AG, Elfrid and Mario go HAM all season, let them learn how to be the guys while winning 20 something games, instead of relying on guys that will never be talented enough to get it done. The highlight of this game was when we decided to just giving the ball to AG and told him to be aggressive.

Those 3 at least have chemistry together. I would probably start Elf, Evan, Mario, AG, Biz soon if this doesn't turn around soon.

I actually like the idea of that lineup. two shooters starting with Biz and current Payton.

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[Mc-o]

Thanks for the scientific and factual input... and wasting my time.

It is true ! Idk what ur problem is ,just cause AG is not as good at SF as he is PF is not a bad thing , he can play both but he is more of a 4 ! That's all I'm saying !!!! Just like Josh smith was better at the 4 but could play both

Oh well, since you say it's true then I apologise for having an opinion of my own.

My problem is people like you and JF5 who just state opinion as if it's fact. JF5 makes stuff up, and you just think that stating your opinion makes it true.

If AG was so much better at PF and had so much more of an impact at PF then there must be some kind of quantifiable data to support it.

What we DID see with AG at the 4 last season was a guy who was used minimally. His talents and potential were being wasted. If you think that him standing in the corner or waiting under the rim was the best way to use him, then say it. If you think he defended the paint better than he defends the perimeter (or, overall, that AG in the paint and Fournier at the 3 was better than Ibaka in the paint and AG at the 3 - which, at this point wouldn't be incorrect since Ibaka has sucked arse) then say it.

Use your words and don't just throw out pointless blanket statements that don't mean anything.

Bro I can say my opinion however I like , Who is the judge whether something is pointless or not?

[Def Swami]

Well, Im not going to read 47 pages of negativity, yes, its been a terrible way to start the season and the next game against the Cavs will probably make it worse but I have confidence in Vogel and in a team that won 35 games last year and has more depth, I just hope it wont take too long to for the guys to figure things out.

That's the thing. I don't doubt that this team improves by February (at least defensively), but from where they're starting, I believe it'll be too late to still meet their explicit playoff expectations. And failing to meet that goal opens a whole can of worms.

[Def Swami]

You're just making stuff now.

He was 1-3 in the 1st quarter, not including 2 drawn fouls where he was 2-4 from the FT line.

He was 0-1 in the 2nd quarter.

He was 2-2 in the 3rd quarter.

That's 3-6 in the first 3 quarters, including 1 3pt shot, and 2 trips to the line.

And now you want to say he was bad on the defensive end, too??? Harris didn't score on him once when Ibaka was out and Gordon was defending him. Morris hardly scored on Gordon, and only picked up points when Green or Ibaka were defending him.

Gordon didn't struggle against SFs. Jon Leur was the one who blocked his shot - does that mean AG struggles against PFs too now?

You are REALLY going out of your way to lie to yourself to feel like you're right. Forget diplomacy mate, just be honest with yourself, you're only looking for things to hate on with AG at SF.

No matter how you want to spin it AG is a 4 being forced to play the 3 !!!!! AG can play the 3 but he is better at the 4 !! Period ! VOGEL even said if ibaka wasn't here AG is a 4 but since we have ibaka we will try ag at the 4 ! We should have traded Dipo for a sf and left AG at the 4 spot !!

Not trying to troll, but AG at the three gives me flashbacks of the 2013 Pistons when they played Josh Smith at SF...the spacing was just awful. Magic have some nice pieces but they might need to make a trade to balance things out.

Completely agree. Would much rather keep letting AG excel at PF; wouldn't be shocked if the team improves significantly by going "small."

[j-ragg]

Evan Fournier can't play the shooting guard position.

I'm just gonna make that statement since we are losing and he has been awful. We are doing that to AG and he hasn't even been bad...

People just looking for someone to blame. He is fine as a 3, maybe I'm biased because I've thought small forward since he was drafted.

Serge underperforming, Vuc still doesn't have a pair of stones, Biz looked bad, Fournier won't pass to anyone other than Vuc, but yet we all blame AG (and really is what he's doing that much different than if he were playing next to Tobias?).

[Def Swami]

Had #BasketballTwitter open during the 2nd quarter last night when it got ugly for the second consecutive game.

Zach Harper ‏@talkhoops
Uh… Magic? You guys ok?

Sam Vecenie @Sam_Vecenie
Not sure I’ve seen a worse NBA team thus far than Orlando in their two games.

HoopsHype ‏@hoopshype
Boy, Orlando looks bad so far.

Eddy Rivera ‏@erivera7
The Magic's offense could use a guy like Tobias Harris.

Too soon?

Hardwood Paroxysm ‏@HPbasketball
Take on the Magic before I do a deep dive on tonight’s disaster: I think it’s going to take a half-season for Vogel to get them on his track

Hardwood Paroxysm ‏@HPbasketball
So yeah, the Pelicans are going to lose a bunch of games, I think. Not as many as the Magic, but a lot.

[j-ragg]

If we lose by < 20 tonight, moral victory!

[Mc-o]

Evan Fournier can't play the shooting guard position.

I'm just gonna make that statement since we are losing and he has been awful. We are doing that to AG and he hasn't even been bad...

People just looking for someone to blame. He is fine as a 3, maybe I'm biased because I've thought small forward since he was drafted.

Serge underperforming, Vuc still doesn't have a pair of stones, Biz looked bad, Fournier won't pass to anyone other than Vuc, but yet we all blame AG (and really is what he's doing that much different than if he were playing next to Tobias?).

I don't think anyone is blaming AG , he has been alright as a SF , I think people feel that AG is even better at PF .

[j-ragg]

Evan Fournier can't play the shooting guard position.

I'm just gonna make that statement since we are losing and he has been awful. We are doing that to AG and he hasn't even been bad...

People just looking for someone to blame. He is fine as a 3, maybe I'm biased because I've thought small forward since he was drafted.

Serge underperforming, Vuc still doesn't have a pair of stones, Biz looked bad, Fournier won't pass to anyone other than Vuc, but yet we all blame AG (and really is what he's doing that much different than if he were playing next to Tobias?).

I don't think anyone is blaming AG , he has been alright as a SF , I think people feel that AG is even better at PF .

Hmm I guess nothing really statistically at least is really comparable to him as a power forward but he seems to be playing about the same. Does the eye test say that these past 2 games he looks worse than he did at pf?

I can understand him playing the 4 when we go to smaller lineups. I just can't understand how people say his position is power forward. He was getting bodied down low last year after we made that (Please Use More Appropriate Word) Harris trade.

He really can't guard bigs but can stick perimeter players pretty well, at least on ball. I guess my biggest issue is everyone saying it won't work when AG himself said he feels he is a small forward and is more comfortable, and we have a 2 game sample size where he looks fine and our other guys stink.

[Last Guardian]

Hate to say it but imo these panic trades have ruined the rebuild and we may have to start the process over again. Well, maybe not completely over, but take a few steps back. Oladipo and Harris were two of our better (maybe best?) players and we traded them for trash. Thats....not good.

I would shop everyone but Payton, AG, Mario. And play the rest of the season like garbage time and let them chuck away. I think we have tried the slow approach long enough. Throw them into the fire and see what they have. Let them go 1-15 and learn something.