Official fire Hennigan and Martins thread

[NEM]

It's been obvious since the start of preseason that this team won't score and now they can't defend either. Hennigan and Martins have been at the helm for going on 5 years and have not shown that they can build a decent team let alone a playoff team or contender. It's time for a change in the front office and hopefully they're both gone before the deadline so we can make some moves AND so they can't make a desperation trade to further give away assets just to try and save their asses.

[fendilim]

I blame ownership.

[NEM]

I blame ownership.

They need to go too as a matter of fact...

[Statlanta]

I'm going to start the thread by saying it's been 2 games, we got one of the youngest GMs in the league, and he came from the Spurs/OKC organic build brain trust. That said I don't think he survives the season even though I secretly want him to stay deep down(I wanna see him build with his coach and players dangit).

[nicolcm]

What assets?

[NEM]

What assets?

When you're right, you're right

[NEM]

I'm going to start the thread by saying it's been 2 games, we got one of the youngest GMs in the league, and he came from the Spurs/OKC organic build brain trust. That said I don't think he survives the season even though I secretly want him to stay deep down (I wanna see him build with his coach and players dangit).

Where is the logic in this? You'd rather sabotage the entire team because "well damn it, I have to be right"... what is the thinking behind this???

[TreasureCoast]

Keep Vogel and AG (as a 4) execute everyone else

[Statlanta]

Where is the logic in this? You'd rather sabotage the entire team because "well damn it, I have to be right"... what is the thinking behind this???

No logic, just unjustified emotional investment in seeing people succeed. I can see why he gets fired as he built the roster(then again ONLY 2 GAMES) but I would like to see what his plan would be to get out of this jam. I don't want him to sabotage the team and I want the team to be successful as do about everyone else on the forum.

[fendilim]

Here's the deal though, Henni is simply following orders. IIRC, Rich wants to see this team win before he goes.

Its clear that every year since Henni took over, ownership wanted to see growth and progress. And Vaughn's last year, we were already talking about making the playoffs. And then Skiles arrived the order was to win. Robbins posted somewhere that management and Skiles has philosophical differences on how to develop Hezonja, which in essence means Henni wanted to give Hezonja more minutes to play, just like how we played AG, EP and Ola during their rookie year. Skiles didn't bulge, wanted to quit. Henni tried to appease Skiles by trading away Skiles most hated player in Tobias, who happen to be one of our best offensive players, still didn't make the playoffs. With Henni hard pressed to win now, Skiles magically quits. Vogel got hired, and built the team around smashmouth basketball. And here we are now.. The difference is we don't have a superstar like Paul George who we can depend on every offensive plays.

I don't blame Henni, he's done a fine job. If ownership wants progress, you do it. Just like every job, you follow your boss. Thats why we've been half ass tanking every year and our picks gets lower and lower. Sadly, our highest pick was one of the worst draft year.

Obviously, there's more to it than what meets our eyes.

Unfortunately, you can't fire an owner and Henni will likely be THE scapegoat, just like every GM that has come and go.

I hate to say it, but like I've said before, this team is built to be mediocre. No superstar potential. I posted this on the Game Thread, but there's only one team in recent history that won with defense first and they were an anomaly, the Pistons. Everyone else has a superstar. And the Pistons' offense wasn't this bad on their offense.

Unfortunately, our best chance to win may eventually be when Rich leaves.

Anyway, what's gonna be interesting though is the coach usually goes first before the GM that hired him. So if Henni will be fired, does Vogel get fired after one year too?

[Statlanta]

Spoiler:

Here's the deal though, Henni is simply following orders. IIRC, Rich wants to see this team win before he goes.

Its clear that every year since Henni took over, ownership wanted to see growth and progress. And Vaughn's last year, we were already talking about making the playoffs. And then Skiles arrived the order was to win. Robbins posted somewhere that management and Skiles has philosophical differences on how to develop Hezonja, which in essence means Henni wanted to give Hezonja more minutes to play, just like how we played AG, EP and Ola during their rookie year. Skiles didn't bulge, wanted to quit. Henni tried to appease Skiles by trading away Skiles most hated player in Tobias, who happen to be one of our best offensive players, still didn't make the playoffs. With Henni hard pressed to win now, Skiles magically quits. Vogel got hired, and built the team around smashmouth basketball. And here we are now.. The difference is we don't have a superstar like Paul George who we can depend on every offensive plays.

I don't blame Henni, he's done a fine job. If ownership wants progress, you do it. Just like every job, you follow your boss. Thats why we've been half ass tanking every year and our picks gets lower and lower. Sadly, our highest pick was one of the worst draft year.

Obviously, there's more to it than what meets our eyes.

Unfortunately, you can't fire an owner and Henni will likely be THE scapegoat, just like every GM that has come and go.

I hate to say it, but like I've said before, this team is built to be mediocre. No superstar potential. I posted this on the Game Thread, but there's only one team in recent history that won with defense first and they were an anomaly, the Pistons. Everyone else has a superstar. And the Pistons' offense wasn't this bad on their offense.

Unfortunately, our best chance to win may eventually be when Rich leaves.

Anyway, what's gonna be interesting though is the coach usually goes first before the GM that hired him. So if Henni will be fired, does Vogel get fired after one year too?

I like this post and I agree that he was following orders. He never got the right luck and his best trades are balanced by the more recent ones. I preface my thoughts by saying even though it's been 2 games it doesn't look like it will significantly better.

I think the biggest mistake was there was no consistency in plan between Owner to GM to President to Coach. You don't hire a Spurs/OKC "organic growth" GM if you want to be in the playoffs immediately. You do not build around role players, you build around your franchise potential superstar(not that we had the draft luck to do that). You don't experiment with your best future player the year you want to make the playoffs. You get players that promote your best players strengths and weaknesses and you adjust to the developments to the era(not by building around and covering the weaknesses of the most archaic player type in era). We did not build the right way and now we will have to go back to the draft in order to build back the asset base again.

[npiper17]

There's no chance Martins is fired - he works at board level for a number of DeVos' business interests, is regularly voted as one of the most influential people in Orlando, currently responsible for building the new entertainment complex, previously responsible for building the new arena, responsible for keeping ticket sales respectable during the Magic's worst period of losing in its history.

[Skin]

I've been a strong Henny defender but I'm at a loss right now. I don't want to overreact, but I am worried. At this point even though it's extremely early, maybe my expectations for playoffs need to be changed.

[NEM]

There's no chance Martins is fired - he works at board level for a number of DeVos' business interests, is regularly voted as one of the most influential people in Orlando, currently responsible for building the new entertainment complex, previously responsible for building the new arena, responsible for keeping ticket sales respectable during the Magic's worst period of losing in its history.

Then he needs to be reappointed because he's not doing a good job with the basketball side of things..

[thelead]

There's no chance Martins is fired - he works at board level for a number of DeVos' business interests, is regularly voted as one of the most influential people in Orlando, currently responsible for building the new entertainment complex, previously responsible for building the new arena, responsible for keeping ticket sales respectable during the Magic's worst period of losing in its history.

Then he needs to be reappointed because he's not doing a good job with the basketball side of things..

I just don't understand how he was given a basketball operations job.

[OrlandO]

Do you really think fournier, Ibaka and Vuc are suddenly 34-38% scorers? Ibaka and Biz forgot how to play defense? Things are bound to get better... how much better? I don't know, but we can only go up from here. Premature thread, though I'd be fine with Martins being booted as I don't think there's a single Magic fan that approves of him meddling in decisions.

[npiper17]

There's no chance Martins is fired - he works at board level for a number of DeVos' business interests, is regularly voted as one of the most influential people in Orlando, currently responsible for building the new entertainment complex, previously responsible for building the new arena, responsible for keeping ticket sales respectable during the Magic's worst period of losing in its history.

Then he needs to be reappointed because he's not doing a good job with the basketball side of things..

I think he stuck his nose in re Skiles and has since backed off - that's kind of been seen in the press conferences where he no longer sits alongside Rob.

I think this sunmer's strategy, player recruitment and coach hiring is all down to Rob.

[npiper17]

There's no chance Martins is fired - he works at board level for a number of DeVos' business interests, is regularly voted as one of the most influential people in Orlando, currently responsible for building the new entertainment complex, previously responsible for building the new arena, responsible for keeping ticket sales respectable during the Magic's worst period of losing in its history.

Then he needs to be reappointed because he's not doing a good job with the basketball side of things..

I just don't understand how he was given a basketball operations job.

He wasn't - I think Rob was led on Skiles and after that turned out how it did, Martins backed away.

I'm not saying he doesn't have faults but the Magic probably wouldn't even be in Orlando if it wasn't for Martins.

[thelead]

Then he needs to be reappointed because he's not doing a good job with the basketball side of things..

I just don't understand how he was given a basketball operations job.

He wasn't - I think Rob was led on Skiles and after that turned out how it did, Martins backed away.

I'm not saying he doesn't have faults but the Magic probably wouldn't even be in Orlando if it wasn't for Martins.

I know that and pointed it out earlier in the game thread. Martins served his purpose and he's a great politician but does he really need to be President, CEO AND COO?

[Optimus_Steel]

I'm not advocating for anyone to get fired. I like Rob and he has been unfortunate with the draft orders but his team is a hot mess and we don't have enough talent to make up for all the weaknesses. Fans in Orlando are livid and had enough of the losing. Fans will demand a change and its going to be Rob. Martins is not going anywhere as has been said he is involved in too much for him to get fired.


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