A battle of the winless, the Orlando Magic(0-3) @ Philadelphia 76ers(0-2) 11/01......

[JF5]

This play sums up the knock on Gordon at the 3 and this lineup in general.

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If you look at the Advance stats for AG specifically it doesn't look too good either.

0-5: 10-16, %62. 5
5-9: 2-5, %40.0
10-14: 0-0, %0.00
15-19: 1-7, %14.3
20-24: 1-5, %20.0
25-29: 3-7, %42.9

[PennytoShaq]

Ok, so when the stats fit your (xatticus) narrative, you use them. When they don't support what you are complaining about, you don't. Furthermore you follow your own "magic number" for when stats are relevant. Additionally your "subjective observations", which go against the thinking of the prior and current coaching staff are still correct this season even though advanced stats so far don't show it.

Got it.

[Xatticus]

Ok, so when the stats fit your (xatticus) narrative, you use them. When they don't support what you are complaining about, you don't. Furthermore you follow your own "magic number" for when stats are relevant. Additionally your "subjective observations", which go against the thinking of the prior and current coaching staff are still correct this season even though advanced stats so far don't show it.

Got it.

No. You don't.

There is a truth. It is upon each of us to use the tools at our disposal to find it. If you find yourself in a pissing contest, you have missed the point entirely.

Edit: By the way, it isn't my own magic number. It is about rejecting the null hypothesis, and there is a mathematical model that you strive for by reaching a significance of 95%. It just so happens that 30 tends to be a comfortable number for the purposes of experimental design in research. It generally ensures that you will reach that threshold that legitimizes your research. Anything less, and you run the risk of results that aren't representative.

[PennytoShaq]

I got the point. There is nothing really to miss. You want to enforce your arguments with stats? Cool, but don't try and pick and choose the rules on how they are applied when they are not in line with your "subjective observations".

[fendilim]

Why are you all arguing? AG IS A THREE!

[Bensational]

This play sums up the knock on Gordon at the 3 and this lineup in general.

Read on Twitter

That's literally the first time he's passed up a look that open all season. He knows he should have shot it. It's silly to harp on one play.

It's not when you consider he finished 3/10, missed 6 or 7 jumpers last night, and shows how shaky his confidence is in his jumper. The offense is going to continue to suck with teams just packing the paint and daring guys like Payton and Gordon to punish them with their jumpshots.

Yeah, he should've taken that 3.

Do we want to isolate every play and discuss what everyone should've done?

What else was he supposed to do? He had room to dribble in a couple of feet and take another jumper, so he could've done that.

But apart from that, Biyombo and Ibaka had the paint filled with their defenders, plus AGs. Biyombo was making an effort to get some screen action going on, but what else was AG supposed to achieve in that set up? Fournier isn't moving off the ball, nor is Payton. All he could do there was drive into a paint crowded with the 3 tallest defenders Philly had on the court at the time. The fact he chose to pass it out was at least a play that didn't result in an instant turnover.

But yeah, he should've taken the 3. He was visibly rattled with his jump shot last night, and he's not the sort of guy that Fournier and Oladipo are (yet) who feels comfortable shooting through a poor shooting night, especially early in the game when the team is down.

[basketballRob]

Until we get a better center.

Sent from my D6708 using RealGM mobile app

Did you notice they started taking Vucevic out against Embiid?

Biyombo is better suited to defend most starting centers.

Did you notice that Vuc obliterated their frontline consisting of two "shotblockers" while shooting 68%? Those are called match ups and while Biyombo is the better defensive player, Nik is the better everything else. They'll continue to start Nik until we get a better center because we currently don't have one.

He was no match for Embiid, they had to take him out and play Vuc against Holmes. Embiid backed down Vuc a couple times for easy layups at the beginning of the second half and got the hook.

Vuc was pretty good offensively against the second string but he didn't stop anyone defensively.

[Def Swami]

That's literally the first time he's passed up a look that open all season. He knows he should have shot it. It's silly to harp on one play.

It's not when you consider he finished 3/10, missed 6 or 7 jumpers last night, and shows how shaky his confidence is in his jumper. The offense is going to continue to suck with teams just packing the paint and daring guys like Payton and Gordon to punish them with their jumpshots.

Yeah, he should've taken that 3.

Do we want to isolate every play and discuss what everyone should've done?

What else was he supposed to do? He had room to dribble in a couple of feet and take another jumper, so he could've done that.

But apart from that, Biyombo and Ibaka had the paint filled with their defenders, plus AGs. Biyombo was making an effort to get some screen action going on, but what else was AG supposed to achieve in that set up? Fournier isn't moving off the ball, nor is Payton. All he could do there was drive into a paint crowded with the 3 tallest defenders Philly had on the court at the time. The fact he chose to pass it out was at least a play that didn't result in an instant turnover.

But yeah, he should've taken the 3. He was visibly rattled with his jump shot last night, and he's not the sort of guy that Fournier and Oladipo are (yet) who feels comfortable shooting through a poor shooting night, especially early in the game when the team is down.

Yep, acknowledged that part above as well. It's not just Gordon's hesitancy to shoot that contributes to the low team offense numbers to start the season; it's the whole dynamic you see in the clip with Biyombo and Ibaka crowding the paint and 2 guys just hanging out on the sides because they have no where to go. Just badness all around.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I have been praising Nik's defense all year (and his rebounding which has also gone unnoticed).

No, I know, I'm just speaking in general. There are those who see what they want to see and have personal little agendas especially the player fans that litter our boards. They couldn't care less about the team as long as their favorite player is doing well.

But he doesn't block shots!

Honestly I think having a good team defensive scheme is just as critical as having a shot blocker. Yes there will be times where Nik will struggle going one on one against certain guys but for the most part he's defending well within Vogels system, and not the liability people are trying to make him out to be. This team does need some time to gel and get in sync so I'm holding out hope for that. The good is that Payton still has his foot on the gas and we need that.

Nik has played well, especially last game. His defense has gotten a little better.

My problem with Drting is doesn't tell the whole story. For example there are many people here who bash Fournier's defense without mercy. According the stats you posted, he has one of the better Drtings on the team currently. But yet I read people saying he is horrid at defense.

As for AG playing the 3 just fine, No. I wish it was the case but he's just not doing it right now. I have no agenda on him, he is probably my favorite player on the team. He defends the wing great but our offensive spacing is awful right now.

It's more about the fit of the players than the individual. For example many of us see Vuc getting traded because he is a good piece and our current guys just do not fit together well yet. If we had Porzingis at the 4 than Gordon could be a decent experiment at SF. Right now it just kills our spacing because Ibaka is not stretching the floor, AG isn't, and everyone runs under screens on Elf. You need 3-4 3 point shooters on the floor in today's NBA, OR 2-3 guys who are excellent at shot creation. We just don't have that.

I know drtg doesn't tell the whole story which is why I posted their individual defensive statistics as well. drtg takes into account who's on the floor with him, who he's playing against, and I'm sure other factors that I'm missing. That said it is some type of indicator and if anything isn't showing him as the liability he's made out to be.

If Nik can continue where he is defensively while being the offensive force that he is for us then there is no way we can bench him. Biyombo is a better one on one defender which is undeniable, but currently he's a bigger liability on offense especially as this team is currently constructed than Nik is as a one on one defender. Because as a team defender he's playing very well while carrying the offensive load. Nik is the better center and overall player and the statistics point to that.

EDIT: My point was to show that someone trying to paint Nik as a defensive liability up to this point just simply isn't accurate. I could tell that by simple observations and the numbers reinforced what I thought I saw. This all could obviously change being that its early.

[ivDT]

just in case some of you forgot, you can go to this site to see what the team's 2pt%, 3pt%, efg%, ts% and ortg when certain player combinations are on the floor: http://nbawowy.com/

it should allow us to confirm our "eye tests".

[MagicMadness]

Can someone start the Magic/Kings game thread?

Don't force me to make a boring, generic one.

[PrimeThyme]

Still no game thread??