Game 7: Orlando Magic (3-3) @ Chicago Bulls (3-3) - 8:00 PM ET

[sportsrock37]

You're right. Ibaka is probably better than Oladipo right now.

But we didn't trade Oladipo for Ibaka.

We traded Oladipo, Domantas Sabonis and Ersan Ilyasova for Ibaka.

Even if we didn't need all those guys, the overall value of each one of those assets is not all that different from eachother and we could have found a better deal if we needed to make one.

but we didn't. Hennigan made a panic trade to save his job that may end up harming the team long term.

Ibaka has been declining for years. When the Magic signed him, the argument was "His stats have declined because of KD, Russ, and the system he was in." But in reality, perhaps that's what was propping up his stats?

Oladipo, Sabonis, and Ersan. An established young player, a promising rookie, and a big with an outside shot.

It's a short-sighted, short-circuited nightmare.

an expiring young player who the team didnt want to pay, a rookie (we dont really know if promising or not, and have no idea who we actually would have taken at #11) and a big who was going to be released.

This was the GM taking a chance. If Ibaka regains form, this could be a very good move. If he stays the same as he is now, at least we have seen it up close and we arent the ones that will lay out a big contract for him, which we might have done.

I agree with this. I don't see it as a panic move at all. We traded one of our strengths(SG) for what we assumed would take care of our biggest weakness(rim protection). Ibaka hasn't protected the rim for us yet even though he has played better than Oladipo so far this year. You can argue throwing in the 1st rounder wasn't smart, but if that's what it took to get Ibaka, I don't have any problem including it. I was one of the people who wanted to trade the pick for a vet anyway.

It's on Ibaka to play with energy. He wasn't this lethargic in the preseason or down the stretch in a couple of our games this year(Cleveland/Philly). I don't know what we can do that would make him continue the energy all the time. I guess with Durant and Westbrook he was able to coast a lot and when we need him to be a much bigger part of the team he can't coast for us. I still have faith that Vogel will push the right buttons to get him consistently giving the effort that we need.

[PrimeThyme]

I think what people fail to understand about Ibaka is that he isn't a go-to player...he never has been.

He had two ball dominate players on his team capable of creating at will with Durant and WB.

We don't have one player like that on this team.
There are no players on this team that can create consistently. Most teams have at least one. The most consistent we have is Vuc (that isn't a good thing).

We don't need Ibaka to be a go to player && he isn't being used as one? No one is having issues with his offense it's his defense and his effort that is the problem.

[OrlandO]

I think what people fail to understand about Ibaka is that he isn't a go-to player...he never has been.

He had two ball dominate players on his team capable of creating at will with Durant and WB.

We don't have one player like that on this team.
There are no players on this team that can create consistently. Most teams have at least one. The most consistent we have is Vuc (that isn't a good thing).

We don't need Ibaka to be a go to player && he isn't being used as one? No one is having issues with his offense it's his defense and his effort that is the problem.

He's not being used as a go-to player, but we are certainly giving him more opportunities to create his own shot this year. At the rate we're going he will match the total amount of post up attempts he had all last season by next week.... unfortunately forcing it to him there is not working for him. I don't mind tossing it to him in the post every now and then, but I think we need to focus on keeping him involved with 3pt shooting and midrangers since we know he can shoot. So while I think he's been awful on defense, I don't really like how Vogel is using him on offense so far... it's not benefiting the team.

[PrimeThyme]

I think what people fail to understand about Ibaka is that he isn't a go-to player...he never has been.

He had two ball dominate players on his team capable of creating at will with Durant and WB.

We don't have one player like that on this team.
There are no players on this team that can create consistently. Most teams have at least one. The most consistent we have is Vuc (that isn't a good thing).

We don't need Ibaka to be a go to player && he isn't being used as one? No one is having issues with his offense it's his defense and his effort that is the problem.

He's not being used as a go-to player, but we are certainly giving him more opportunities to create his own shot this year. At the rate we're going he will match the total amount of post up attempts he had all last season by next week.... unfortunately forcing it to him there is not working for him. I don't mind tossing it to him in the post every now and then, but I think we need to focus on keeping him involved with 3pt shooting and midrangers since we know he can shoot. So while I think he's been awful on defense, I don't really like how Vogel is using him on offense so far... it's not benefiting the team.

I definitely agree with that. He's being used in too many post up situations in my opinion. I saw a stat that he's like 4/13 in post up opportunities this year. I don't think he's got the body type to bang around down there consistently. I want him to be more of a stretch 4 for us too. That's what going to help the offense. He seems to just clog the paint when he's in the post because we don't have enough shooters around him and Vuc is usually always on the opposite block bringing his man down in the paint too.

My point was the main issue is his defense in my opinion. He could be used in better ways on offense, but he's at least shown he can still score and be somewhat effective. Defense is a different story.

[OrlandO]

We don't need Ibaka to be a go to player && he isn't being used as one? No one is having issues with his offense it's his defense and his effort that is the problem.

He's not being used as a go-to player, but we are certainly giving him more opportunities to create his own shot this year. At the rate we're going he will match the total amount of post up attempts he had all last season by next week.... unfortunately forcing it to him there is not working for him. I don't mind tossing it to him in the post every now and then, but I think we need to focus on keeping him involved with 3pt shooting and midrangers since we know he can shoot. So while I think he's been awful on defense, I don't really like how Vogel is using him on offense so far... it's not benefiting the team.

I definitely agree with that. He's being used in too many post up situations in my opinion. I saw a stat that he's like 4/13 in post up opportunities this year. I don't think he's got the body type to bang around down there consistently. I want him to be more of a stretch 4 for us too. That's what going to help the offense. He seems to just clog the paint when he's in the post because we don't have enough shooters around him and Vuc is usually always on the opposite block bringing his man down in the paint too.

My point was the main issue is his defense in my opinion. He could be used in better ways on offense, but he's at least shown he can still score and be somewhat effective. Defense is a different story.

Yeah I agree his defense is just killing us... what's most frustrating about it is he was supposed to be the last starter to worry about when it came to defense. I really hope this is just an odd start to the season.

[shadrock]

Its clear to me now that ALL eggs need to be thrown in the AG/Mario basket. Sink or swim. Ill live with the outcome either way. Needs to be 30mpg for them both at their proper positions.

I agree 100%. We tanked two full seasons for these guys. They are our most athletic, youngest, and have the highest ceilings on the team. Our best chance at making the playoffs and a playoff run is one of these guys turning into stars. Ibaka could be hurt, but he can walk at the end of the season for all I care. If his efforts not there on the defensive end give his minutes to someone else because his defense is only hurting the team so far. Elf,Evan,Mario,AG,Vuc. We need to sink or swim with that starting lineup.

That lineup except id personally want Biz instead of Vuc at C. We should be practicing drills at practice where we aren't allowed ANY dribbles so we are forced to work on our ball movement. The ball should be whipping around the perimeter and inside for easy looks.

[PrimeThyme]

He's not being used as a go-to player, but we are certainly giving him more opportunities to create his own shot this year. At the rate we're going he will match the total amount of post up attempts he had all last season by next week.... unfortunately forcing it to him there is not working for him. I don't mind tossing it to him in the post every now and then, but I think we need to focus on keeping him involved with 3pt shooting and midrangers since we know he can shoot. So while I think he's been awful on defense, I don't really like how Vogel is using him on offense so far... it's not benefiting the team.

I definitely agree with that. He's being used in too many post up situations in my opinion. I saw a stat that he's like 4/13 in post up opportunities this year. I don't think he's got the body type to bang around down there consistently. I want him to be more of a stretch 4 for us too. That's what going to help the offense. He seems to just clog the paint when he's in the post because we don't have enough shooters around him and Vuc is usually always on the opposite block bringing his man down in the paint too.

My point was the main issue is his defense in my opinion. He could be used in better ways on offense, but he's at least shown he can still score and be somewhat effective. Defense is a different story.

Yeah I agree his defense is just killing us... what's most frustrating about it is he was supposed to be the last starter to worry about when it came to defense. I really hope this is just an odd start to the season.

Yeah exactly atleast in the preseason we saw some flashes, but so far this season we haven't even seen that. I want to chalk it up to and odd start but something doesn't seem right. There's no reason that he should be the worst defender in this starting lineup right now. I am starting to think he might be injured but if that's the case he needs to take some time off because he's hurting us right now.

[PrimeThyme]

Its clear to me now that ALL eggs need to be thrown in the AG/Mario basket. Sink or swim. Ill live with the outcome either way. Needs to be 30mpg for them both at their proper positions.

I agree 100%. We tanked two full seasons for these guys. They are our most athletic, youngest, and have the highest ceilings on the team. Our best chance at making the playoffs and a playoff run is one of these guys turning into stars. Ibaka could be hurt, but he can walk at the end of the season for all I care. If his efforts not there on the defensive end give his minutes to someone else because his defense is only hurting the team so far. Elf,Evan,Mario,AG,Vuc. We need to sink or swim with that starting lineup.

That lineup except id personally want Biz instead of Vuc at C. We should be practicing drills at practice where we aren't allowed ANY dribbles so we are forced to work on our ball movement. The ball should be whipping around the perimeter and inside for easy looks.

Yeah I'd be all for that. The only reason I kept Biz out of the SL is because his energy is tremendous for us off the bench. But Vuc could be a spark off the bench for us too just in a different way.

Yeah we have capable passers in that starting lineup. Mario just needs to work on passing and coming off screens for good clean looks, I don't need him taking any more than 2 or 3 dribbles for the time being. We need to work on ball movement which will help this team build chemistry.