Should Magic trade for Dragic?

[tiderulz]

It would depend on the price. Because I think he would age very gracefully. He doesn't have a ton of NBA mileage like many players his age. The other issue is also certainly the lottery ramifications this season. The Magic are out of the playoffs already, getting him could take a #7-11 pick to #12-14.

In terms of fit, I've wanted him on the squad for the past two summers. I would let him hog the ball because 1) he's not a ball hog scorer type. 2) He just probes and PnRs a ton for 3) himself and 4) for others, which is perfect for what we need. Instead, there's -1) a bad scoring point like EP who really only can probe and attack for himself (inside the paint only too..) and definitely not for others because of his shooting and suckiness, and -2) a roster missing a single good on-ball creator. Dragic fixes so many issues. If he can find a comfortable PnR partner and an entire offensive system that works around him (an offense should be quarterbacked by the point!), then you have an IT-Boston situation, where all of a sudden, Dragic's perception is as a sure-All Star and a real force in the league. It's the kind of piece that could start to really connect our 3-4 other really good pieces into something that actually wins games a lot.

On the devil's advocate side, I'm a little worried if Dragic's lack of 3 pt threat hurts the Magic more than I thought. I wouldn't want him to change his game from deadly efficient scoring in the mid and paint but maybe that skill set doesn't help the Magic enough. And the other worry is slightly bigger, his average FT rate on a poor FT rate team. This is why I wanted to trade for Dragic with a signing of Parsons in the summer. Parsons is perfect for the Magic, with or without Dragic. High 3's and FT rate, a shoot deep or drive deep scorer with great passing and skill. Perhaps it's not too late to trade for him too, in another depends on the price situation. The Magic can afford to shut him down the whole season, or, ramp up his PT if he warrants it and if all of a sudden Dragic and the squad are hunting for a 6-8 seed (improbably). (Starting Lineup or biggest minutes played: Dragic, Fournier, Parsons, Ibaka, Vucevic.. with Aaron or who he replaces in SL getting 30+ mins off the bench.

It all just goes back to my last post's thoughts. Tanking doesn't work unless you are Hinkie'ing the process, or very (x1000) lucky and skilled (x30) at drafting/draft-dealing. I think as long as the Magic don't tie up their cap in a crazy bad way, they can make a sustainably elite squad and then just keep on adding in the right pieces to the successful system.. all while being relatively open and opportunistic for any big franchise pieces along the way.

if Elf can only probe and attack for himself, how is his career APG higher than Goran's? And they both are even currently for APG? Elf does create for others.

As for Parsons, i dont want him near this team. Its not for his skills, he is sunk cost for constantly being hurt. 43 games into this season at $22mil, he has played 17 games. I doubt he plays 50+ games a year during his time in Memphis.

[tiderulz]

You are delusional ! Put Fournier on the clippers and see what happens . Fournier would look like a better player , playing with CP3 , Blake griffin and deandre Jordan ! Reddick on the magic would suck !!!

I'm delusional? So JJ isn't a better passer and defender than Fournier?

JJ is better team defender and overall defender than Fournier. And it's not even close really. You probably didn't see much of Reddick over last 3,4 years didn't you ? He is doing great job on defense. Reason why Clippers were never able to be good defensive team overall comes from fact that they were playing dudes like Austin Rivers and Jeff Green at SF .

He is also much better shooter, way more effective, and scores almost as much points as Evan- on much less FGA, on TS% full 4% higher. So yea, overall JJ Redick is better basketball player than Evan. JJ shoots 8% higher from 3 point line than Evan. Evan this year is definition of average outside shooter, sitting on 35,8% ( league average is around 35% )

easy to shoot better when you are wide open more because you are the #3-4 option for a team.

[Mc-o]

Idk what's so funny. Redick has the luxury of being next to the best point guard in the game and alongside Blake Griffin. I'd predict that Fournier would put up 20ppg on 42% 3pt shooting and is clearly a better play maker.

Umm apparently you didn't watch the Magic during his 7 years here. So he's only good when paired with CP3 and Blake, is that what you are saying?

The magic during his 7 years were a contender and he was playing with a much better team then what he would be playing in now ! I'm not saying redick is only good because of cp3 but if he wAs on our team this year his numbers would go down ! He wouldn't get open looks , and we don't have a team that has a lot of creators on offense and he doesn't really create his own shot . Imo Fournier has potential to be better than Redick and the talent difference rt now is not as different as some of you are assuming

[pepe1991]

I'm delusional? So JJ isn't a better passer and defender than Fournier?

JJ is better team defender and overall defender than Fournier. And it's not even close really. You probably didn't see much of Reddick over last 3,4 years didn't you ? He is doing great job on defense. Reason why Clippers were never able to be good defensive team overall comes from fact that they were playing dudes like Austin Rivers and Jeff Green at SF .

He is also much better shooter, way more effective, and scores almost as much points as Evan- on much less FGA, on TS% full 4% higher. So yea, overall JJ Redick is better basketball player than Evan. JJ shoots 8% higher from 3 point line than Evan. Evan this year is definition of average outside shooter, sitting on 35,8% ( league average is around 35% )

easy to shoot better when you are wide open more because you are the #3-4 option for a team.

He is career 41,4% three point shooter. Only time in his career when he struggled to shoot was with Bucks, naturally playing with 2 ballhogs. JJ knows what he is - he is great spot up shooter, and he doesn't force anything. Evan still doesn't know that. By all stats Evan would be perfect catch and shoot- come of screens guy but he likes to hold ball way too much and he simply can't be catch and shoot only- type player on this team.

I don't see any evidence by advanced stats that Evan is better player than JJ. They are both ranked negative by defensive RPM and defensive box plus minus. But on offensive side JJ smokes Evan in literally every single category.

[Nemesis21]

Idk what's so funny. Redick has the luxury of being next to the best point guard in the game and alongside Blake Griffin. I'd predict that Fournier would put up 20ppg on 42% 3pt shooting and is clearly a better play maker.

Umm apparently you didn't watch the Magic during his 7 years here. So he's only good when paired with CP3 and Blake, is that what you are saying?

The magic during his 7 years were a contender and he was playing with a much better team then what he would be playing in now ! I'm not saying redick is only good because of cp3 but if he wAs on our team this year his numbers would go down ! He wouldn't get open looks , and we don't have a team that has a lot of creators on offense and he doesn't really create his own shot . Imo Fournier has potential to be better than Redick and the talent difference rt now is not as different as some of you are assuming

I highly doubt that.

[dsg2021]

It would depend on the price. Because I think he would age very gracefully. He doesn't have a ton of NBA mileage like many players his age. The other issue is also certainly the lottery ramifications this season. The Magic are out of the playoffs already, getting him could take a #7-11 pick to #12-14.

In terms of fit, I've wanted him on the squad for the past two summers. I would let him hog the ball because 1) he's not a ball hog scorer type. 2) He just probes and PnRs a ton for 3) himself and 4) for others, which is perfect for what we need. Instead, there's -1) a bad scoring point like EP who really only can probe and attack for himself (inside the paint only too..) and definitely not for others because of his shooting and suckiness, and -2) a roster missing a single good on-ball creator. Dragic fixes so many issues. If he can find a comfortable PnR partner and an entire offensive system that works around him (an offense should be quarterbacked by the point!), then you have an IT-Boston situation, where all of a sudden, Dragic's perception is as a sure-All Star and a real force in the league. It's the kind of piece that could start to really connect our 3-4 other really good pieces into something that actually wins games a lot.

On the devil's advocate side, I'm a little worried if Dragic's lack of 3 pt threat hurts the Magic more than I thought. I wouldn't want him to change his game from deadly efficient scoring in the mid and paint but maybe that skill set doesn't help the Magic enough. And the other worry is slightly bigger, his average FT rate on a poor FT rate team. This is why I wanted to trade for Dragic with a signing of Parsons in the summer. Parsons is perfect for the Magic, with or without Dragic. High 3's and FT rate, a shoot deep or drive deep scorer with great passing and skill. Perhaps it's not too late to trade for him too, in another depends on the price situation. The Magic can afford to shut him down the whole season, or, ramp up his PT if he warrants it and if all of a sudden Dragic and the squad are hunting for a 6-8 seed (improbably). (Starting Lineup or biggest minutes played: Dragic, Fournier, Parsons, Ibaka, Vucevic.. with Aaron or who he replaces in SL getting 30+ mins off the bench.

It all just goes back to my last post's thoughts. Tanking doesn't work unless you are Hinkie'ing the process, or very (x1000) lucky and skilled (x30) at drafting/draft-dealing. I think as long as the Magic don't tie up their cap in a crazy bad way, they can make a sustainably elite squad and then just keep on adding in the right pieces to the successful system.. all while being relatively open and opportunistic for any big franchise pieces along the way.

if Elf can only probe and attack for himself, how is his career APG higher than Goran's? And they both are even currently for APG? Elf does create for others.

As for Parsons, i dont want him near this team. Its not for his skills, he is sunk cost for constantly being hurt. 43 games into this season at $22mil, he has played 17 games. I doubt he plays 50+ games a year during his time in Memphis.

It's the most empty assists ever. A really good PG makes the whole team offense flow. When you see a really beautiful team offense, it really stands out. Here, the team offense sucks, Evan is forced to be an on ball creator. And EP would have to go 110% every night with an efficient 20 points.. or else he would just keep sucking the team offense out with his poor spacing and predictable game.

[MagicStarwipe]

I'm actually truly shocked people think Fournier is better than Redick. Especially Magic fans.

[fklt]

Still, Redick is the better defender, passer and keeps himself in better shape. I'm just over Fournier as a big minutes player.

JJ Redick's DRPM -1.36 is worse than fournier's -0.96. his assist per game is much worse at 1.2 than fournier's 3.2. he is also worse rebounder at 2.1 than fournier's 3. I don't know what keeping himself in better shape means.

I really don't care what those numbers say because they don't prove a single thing. I watched every game of both in a Magic uniform and a lot of JJ's Clippers games. He's easily the better defender and passer. JJ is not asked to be a playmaker in LA while Evan is here. The one season we asked JJ to be more of a playmaker he averaged 4.4 assists and he still didn't have the ball nearly as much as Fournier does now. It's well known Redick is one of the fittest players in the NBA who can run non-stop and all you have to do is look at the transformation of his body to know how hard he works. Fournier looks like he's never lifted a weight in his life.

on the contrary, this numbers and stats prove lots of things, what you think however has little to no value in this context. evan and jj have very similar usages, at 23.3 and 22.4 respectively. but their assist ratios differ greatly at 16.7 and 6.5, evan more than doubling jj. career performances may differ. also DRPM is the defining defensive metric, based on team success all the while eliminating contributions of all other teammates.

you can keep thinking jj is EASILY (lol) better defender and passer, based on nothing but your gut. you should then, stop using stats in any of your arguments like it means something for you.

[tiderulz]

JJ is better team defender and overall defender than Fournier. And it's not even close really. You probably didn't see much of Reddick over last 3,4 years didn't you ? He is doing great job on defense. Reason why Clippers were never able to be good defensive team overall comes from fact that they were playing dudes like Austin Rivers and Jeff Green at SF .

He is also much better shooter, way more effective, and scores almost as much points as Evan- on much less FGA, on TS% full 4% higher. So yea, overall JJ Redick is better basketball player than Evan. JJ shoots 8% higher from 3 point line than Evan. Evan this year is definition of average outside shooter, sitting on 35,8% ( league average is around 35% )

easy to shoot better when you are wide open more because you are the #3-4 option for a team.

He is career 41,4% three point shooter. Only time in his career when he struggled to shoot was with Bucks, naturally playing with 2 ballhogs. JJ knows what he is - he is great spot up shooter, and he doesn't force anything. Evan still doesn't know that. By all stats Evan would be perfect catch and shoot- come of screens guy but he likes to hold ball way too much and he simply can't be catch and shoot only- type player on this team.

I don't see any evidence by advanced stats that Evan is better player than JJ. They are both ranked negative by defensive RPM and defensive box plus minus. But on offensive side JJ smokes Evan in literally every single category.

i didnt say he was a bad shooter. But its no coincidence that his 3 best years shooting the 3 are this year and the past 2 years, all in LA as a 3rd at best option

[tiderulz]

It would depend on the price. Because I think he would age very gracefully. He doesn't have a ton of NBA mileage like many players his age. The other issue is also certainly the lottery ramifications this season. The Magic are out of the playoffs already, getting him could take a #7-11 pick to #12-14.

In terms of fit, I've wanted him on the squad for the past two summers. I would let him hog the ball because 1) he's not a ball hog scorer type. 2) He just probes and PnRs a ton for 3) himself and 4) for others, which is perfect for what we need. Instead, there's -1) a bad scoring point like EP who really only can probe and attack for himself (inside the paint only too..) and definitely not for others because of his shooting and suckiness, and -2) a roster missing a single good on-ball creator. Dragic fixes so many issues. If he can find a comfortable PnR partner and an entire offensive system that works around him (an offense should be quarterbacked by the point!), then you have an IT-Boston situation, where all of a sudden, Dragic's perception is as a sure-All Star and a real force in the league. It's the kind of piece that could start to really connect our 3-4 other really good pieces into something that actually wins games a lot.

On the devil's advocate side, I'm a little worried if Dragic's lack of 3 pt threat hurts the Magic more than I thought. I wouldn't want him to change his game from deadly efficient scoring in the mid and paint but maybe that skill set doesn't help the Magic enough. And the other worry is slightly bigger, his average FT rate on a poor FT rate team. This is why I wanted to trade for Dragic with a signing of Parsons in the summer. Parsons is perfect for the Magic, with or without Dragic. High 3's and FT rate, a shoot deep or drive deep scorer with great passing and skill. Perhaps it's not too late to trade for him too, in another depends on the price situation. The Magic can afford to shut him down the whole season, or, ramp up his PT if he warrants it and if all of a sudden Dragic and the squad are hunting for a 6-8 seed (improbably). (Starting Lineup or biggest minutes played: Dragic, Fournier, Parsons, Ibaka, Vucevic.. with Aaron or who he replaces in SL getting 30+ mins off the bench.

It all just goes back to my last post's thoughts. Tanking doesn't work unless you are Hinkie'ing the process, or very (x1000) lucky and skilled (x30) at drafting/draft-dealing. I think as long as the Magic don't tie up their cap in a crazy bad way, they can make a sustainably elite squad and then just keep on adding in the right pieces to the successful system.. all while being relatively open and opportunistic for any big franchise pieces along the way.

if Elf can only probe and attack for himself, how is his career APG higher than Goran's? And they both are even currently for APG? Elf does create for others.

As for Parsons, i dont want him near this team. Its not for his skills, he is sunk cost for constantly being hurt. 43 games into this season at $22mil, he has played 17 games. I doubt he plays 50+ games a year during his time in Memphis.

It's the most empty assists ever. A really good PG makes the whole team offense flow. When you see a really beautiful team offense, it really stands out. Here, the team offense sucks, Evan is forced to be an on ball creator. And EP would have to go 110% every night with an efficient 20 points.. or else he would just keep sucking the team offense out with his poor spacing and predictable game.

ive watched the team with and without Elf. He does make the offense flow.

[cedric76]

I'm actually truly shocked people think Fournier is better than Redick. Especially Magic fans.

Of course he is. I love jj more thab evan but come on. Evan is better

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[MagicStarwipe]

You're all entitled to your opinion. I'm just going to leave it at that.

[Mc-o]

I'm actually truly shocked people think Fournier is better than Redick. Especially Magic fans.

Not saying Evan is better , jj has experience and is a good player but I do think Evan and jj are the same tier of Player !

[MoMM]

JJ is a better scorer, but Evan is a better all-around player. I'd rate both in the same tier as Mc-o said.

[MagicStarwipe]

JJ is a better scorer, but Evan is a better all-around player. I'd rate both in the same tier as Mc-o said.

How? All Evan does is score. He does nothing else on the court.

[Max Power]

JJ Redick over Fournier any time! Fournier only has an age advantage. Redick is a better shooter, defender, competitor, and Redick doesn't damn near turn over the ball every time he dribbles. That clusterf**k is Fournier who I can't stand. Sorry guys. End rant.


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[CZ Eddie]

I used to hate watching JJ dribble the ball.
He's gotten better.
At this point, I'd stick with Fournier over JJ in the starting lineup due to age, but I do hope JJ returns to the franchise at some point.
It's unlikely he'll leave Los Angeles by choice though.

[MoMM]

JJ is a better scorer, but Evan is a better all-around player. I'd rate both in the same tier as Mc-o said.

How? All Evan does is score. He does nothing else on the court.

I'm not saying that Evan is Ginobili, I'm just saying he is a better all-around than JJ, JJ averages 2 rebounds and 1 assist per game. Evan does more than that.

[TroubleS0me]

give us Ibaka or Gordon 1st...

[Audi]

Seems like Elf would average at least another 4 assists per game if we had better shooters.