We Got A Serious Problem: AG & EP Cannot Play Together & One Must Be Traded

[UCFJayBird]

Seems to me both EP and AG play extremely well in the fast paced, small lineup style. Keep Vucevic coming off the bench (or trade him if need be), find a sharp shooting SF to play alongside either Fournier or Ross (move one to the bench or package them with Vucevic), and find a Center who is what we all wanted Biyombo to be a (a high energy shot blocker with good rebounding numbers, but preferably one who doesn't botch every offensive touch he gets).

My point being, EP and AG CAN coexist. It requires a certain lineup though, and one the Magic may or may not be able to produce. But these guys will thrive in small ball, but they need sharp shooters at SG AND SF, and our team doesn't have it at either position right now.

Fournier and Ross are sharpshooters, though? Or they serve the purpose of it at least for spacing and movement.

But yeah, AG and EP look at home in this new system.

I think they could be. Evan shot 40% last year, Ross is a consistent 37-39% shooter. Both are having down years, likely because they don't get as much space as they need with the lack of offensive power around them. Hopefully one of them could get into the 40+% range and become deadly but yea, definitely questionable. I think if you could pair one of them with a 40+% shooter (who can do more than just that though, don't want a guy just standing in the corner all game) it would serve. But honestly both spots probably need upgrades in terms of shooting.

[Optimus_Steel]

Looking at the numbers since Jan 1st we are:

-last in offensive efficiency
-last in 3pt shooting
-22nd in defense efficiency


Since the Ibaka trade:

-25th in offensive efficiency
-last in 3pt shooting
-12th in defense efficiency.

Small sample still, but there has been a slight increase in offense but no improvement at all in 3s. Defense has actually increased quite a bit in that short span. We shall see with these remianing games how it ends up, but one thing is clear, the utter lack of 3pt shooting is handcuffing this team.

[j-ragg]

When Otto Porter came out, people thought he would make an immediate impact and be a safe pick. It has taken him for years to start to show his potential. AG and EP haven't developed as fast as we would like, but they're getting better and are still young. It takes some guys time.

Porter shot 36% from 3 his rookie year, just slightly over league average. Then the next 3 years are as follows: 45%, 47%, & 52% this year. Every year improvement. AG and Elf were awful from 3 their rookie years and this year are essentially shooting the same awful percentage from their rookie years. With their track record i see no sign of these 2 being able to become good, maybe never even close to average. That's why we need to break up this pair. We can't continue throttling out a lineup that has so many awful shooters, we won't win that way, no with zero spacing, we are making ourselves easier to defend.

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AG's college highlights are frightening. He looked like someone who was just learning to play basketball for the first time. His shot was horrible. No offensive skill. It's actually remarkable that he has developed as much as he has, but I wouldn't expect much more.

You think he'll stop developing at the ripe age of 21?

Even after admitting how in college he looked like he never played basketball before offensively and admitting he improved a lot from 19-current?

[RickB-Orlando]

I'll trade Elf. Why? We can get a good replacement this draft. This draft has a deep guard depth. Assuming we can land one of the top guards in this draft, its likely a player who will need the ball in his hands. That would make Elf ineffective until he becomes a respectable shooter.

I wouldn't trade AG. Despite the fact that I've said that he sucks, he simply doesn't need the ball to be effective. Defensively, he is amazing. The Morris-Tobias, Porter-Morris combination gives me hope that even if we draft a Tatum or Jackson, AG will be able to complement either.

my problem is. AG isnt a rim protector. So you cant really play him with Vuc. And his offense is bad, so you cant play him with Biz for very long. I have nothing against AG, but he never should have been taken at #4, with expectations that he just cant live up to. He continues to look like a bench/role playing combo forward, athleticism but less basketball skill.

So, basically trade AG for Ibaka...?

[UCFJayBird]

Porter shot 36% from 3 his rookie year, just slightly over league average. Then the next 3 years are as follows: 45%, 47%, & 52% this year. Every year improvement. AG and Elf were awful from 3 their rookie years and this year are essentially shooting the same awful percentage from their rookie years. With their track record i see no sign of these 2 being able to become good, maybe never even close to average. That's why we need to break up this pair. We can't continue throttling out a lineup that has so many awful shooters, we won't win that way, no with zero spacing, we are making ourselves easier to defend.

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AG's college highlights are frightening. He looked like someone who was just learning to play basketball for the first time. His shot was horrible. No offensive skill. It's actually remarkable that he has developed as much as he has, but I wouldn't expect much more.

You think he'll stop developing at the ripe age of 21?

Even after admitting how in college he looked like he never played basketball before offensively and admitting he improved a lot from 19-current?

Yea i don't understand that line of thinking. It's pretty well established that most players peak in their late 20s and start declining from 32 onward. There are always exceptions, but that's the general consensus. A player's prime is typically 26-32.

[PennytoShaq]

So we move Gordon to the 4, his scoring immediately goes up and our defensive efficiency goes from 22nd to 12th but yet people say he looks like a bench/role player at the age of 21. No wonder this fan base is so upset all the time.

[Mc-o]

So we move Gordon to the 4, his scoring immediately goes up and our defensive efficiency goes from 22nd to 12th but yet people say he looks like a bench/role player at the age of 21. No wonder this fan base is so upset all the time.

I love Gordon at the 4 but fans are upset because we have been one of the worst teams in the league for 5 years str8 lmao our fans are no different than any other teams fans , when a team is one of the worst for half a decade people will get mad

[Shady Franchise]

So we move Gordon to the 4, his scoring immediately goes up and our defensive efficiency goes from 22nd to 12th but yet people say he looks like a bench/role player at the age of 21. No wonder this fan base is so upset all the time.

I love Gordon at the 4 but fans are upset because we have been one of the worst teams in the league for 5 years str8 lmao our fans are no different than any other teams fans , when a team is one of the worst for half a decade people will get mad

That's why there's hope! One of Orlando, Phili, Brooklyn, Minnesota has to be the next Golden State right?

[Optimus_Steel]

So we move Gordon to the 4, his scoring immediately goes up and our defensive efficiency goes from 22nd to 12th but yet people say he looks like a bench/role player at the age of 21. No wonder this fan base is so upset all the time.

Small sample size, while our defense has improved and our scoring slightly improved, our offense is still really bad. Our 3pt shooting is still worst in the league. The offense is very concerning and will continue to be if we intend to keep AG and Elf in the starting lineup.

[j-ragg]

So we move Gordon to the 4, his scoring immediately goes up and our defensive efficiency goes from 22nd to 12th but yet people say he looks like a bench/role player at the age of 21. No wonder this fan base is so upset all the time.

Small sample size, while our defense has improved and our scoring slightly improved, our offense is still really bad. Our 3pt shooting is still worst in the league. The offense is very concerning and will continue to be if we intend to keep AG and Elf in the starting lineup.

If our offensive system was a concern then we certainly got the wrong coach. Players continuously have admitted they don't even run plays.

[PennytoShaq]

So we move Gordon to the 4, his scoring immediately goes up and our defensive efficiency goes from 22nd to 12th but yet people say he looks like a bench/role player at the age of 21. No wonder this fan base is so upset all the time.

Small sample size, while our defense has improved and our scoring slightly improved, our offense is still really bad. Our 3pt shooting is still worst in the league. The offense is very concerning and will continue to be if we intend to keep AG and Elf in the starting lineup.

You can win games without everyone on the team being a 3 point shooter. Additionally, I wouldn't be so fast to predict the future on Gordon and Payton just yet. These guys have been shuffled around between 3 coaches and 4 schemes so far. Additionally, our team in general has not shot well over the past 4-5 games, and it's not a spacing thing; they are missing wide open looks. That will sort itself out. I'd like to give this lineup more time before making changes to it yet again.

[PennytoShaq]

So we move Gordon to the 4, his scoring immediately goes up and our defensive efficiency goes from 22nd to 12th but yet people say he looks like a bench/role player at the age of 21. No wonder this fan base is so upset all the time.

I love Gordon at the 4 but fans are upset because we have been one of the worst teams in the league for 5 years str8 lmao our fans are no different than any other teams fans , when a team is one of the worst for half a decade people will get mad

That's how the NBA is now unless you get a star in free agency or via trade (very difficult). Tons of teams have been bad for 5 years straight now. The league has basically been dominated by Lebron, the Spurs and the Warriors over that time period.

[Optimus_Steel]

So we move Gordon to the 4, his scoring immediately goes up and our defensive efficiency goes from 22nd to 12th but yet people say he looks like a bench/role player at the age of 21. No wonder this fan base is so upset all the time.

Small sample size, while our defense has improved and our scoring slightly improved, our offense is still really bad. Our 3pt shooting is still worst in the league. The offense is very concerning and will continue to be if we intend to keep AG and Elf in the starting lineup.

You can win games without everyone on the team being a 3 point shooter. Additionally, I wouldn't be so fast to predict the future on Gordon and Payton just yet. These guys have been shuffled around between 3 coaches and 4 schemes so far. Additionally, our team in general has not shot well over the past 4-5 games, and it's not a spacing thing; they are missing wide open looks. That will sort itself out. I'd like to give this lineup more time before making changes to it yet again.

Its not just 3pt shooting, they are not particularly good at scoring unless its broken plays or fast break, push the tempo. A PG that shoots 26% is troubling because he is the guy expected to set up the offense and it hampers his ability because the defense knows he is not a threat from distance so they can pack the paint. Their half court offense is puke worthy.

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[Optimus_Steel]

Yea our offense is not a problem...

We can't win if we are going to continue featuring both Elf and AG on offense.

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[SOUL]

Yea our offense is not a problem...

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How was this Elfrid and Aaron's fault this game? Arguably the only ones that played good offensively on the team.

[Optimus_Steel]

Yea our offense is not a problem...

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How was this Elfrid and Aaron's fault this game? Arguably the only ones that played good offensively on the team.

They can't score in the half court. They are being featured and they can't score unless its a hustle play. We are too easy to defend.

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[SOUL]

Yea our offense is not a problem...

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How was this Elfrid and Aaron's fault this game? Arguably the only ones that played good offensively on the team.

They can't score in the half court. They are being featured and they can't score unless its ahustle play.

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Again, where is the accountability of EVERY OTHER PLAYER on the team to score? Especially when wide open?

They didn't score on hustle plays, Elfrid had 12 assists and scored on mid-range shots, Aaron did his damage from good cutting and aggressive takes to the basket.

[drsd]

EP's production has gone way up since the magic realized that 90s basketball is dead and they got with the times....there is still hope for him IF we play the right way. AG and EP can play together as long as we play a small fast paced game

Ross has really opened up the ability for Payton to access Gordon's skills. And yes those two can run for 30 minutes. Which has the nice side-effect of tiring out the opponent on defense. The Magic is young and the team should thus use their youth to an advantage.

Fournier ... sharpshooters, though? Or they serve the purpose of it at least for spacing and movement.

But yeah, AG and EP look at home in this new system.

An intriguing point is that any SF upgrade must include an efficient, high percentage 3-ball shooter (Porter Jr. buy some sun-screen for your Floridian move ???)


..

[MasterGMer]

EP is a little passive on offensive end and my thinking is that he needed to be more of a facilitator.

The night he went scoring, he was not that bad

[j-ragg]

Guys we have a serious problem: Vuc and Fournier can't play together.

We've featured them as go to guys for years and still suck.