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The caveat is that this is just a debate between these two guys. and let's assume that Goga is re-signed for 2-3 seasons for about as good of a deal was WCJ in terms of being relatively cheap, even if it isn't realistic that he's staying. And that both players aren't being traded. This isn't about your preferred FA/trade target or Isaac (he would be my choice) or anyone else, I'm simply talking Goga vs WCJ.

Simple question. Thought it would be fun to debate on the day off since there's always things to discuss even when we're rolling.

I'm on record saying I think Wendell gets scapegoated a lot on this board unfairly. I think he drives me crazy more than any player on the team, but I also think he's more vital than people think and does a lot of small stuff that goes unnoticed.

The cons for me is he has some Vuc tendencies with his energy, weird turnovers, can't hold onto the ball, misses bunnies (the most frustrating thing IMO), streaky rebounder and not much of a rim protector.

The pros for me is that he stretches the floor and lets Franz/Paolo operate in a lot of spaces they need to operate in, can hit threes at a 35-40% clip, uses the Gortat/seal screen very well, is a decent pick and pop option, lob threat chemistry especially with Franz, and is a solid defender against specific players, weirdly enough guys like Jokic and some others he just knows where to be. He also is a center that can switch on to smaller players and not get exploited as bad as other centers around the league.

Goga I like more in a vacuum as a player, meaning I'd prefer my centers traditionally to have his skill set if I had the perfect roster for this team, but I'm not sure he is the better option currently, even though we had a nine game streak with him.

Goga's cons for me is that he is very exploitable on switches and a bit clunky. All it takes is a Myles Turner sort of center to make his rim protection useless. Very exploitable on switches versus smaller guards, jumps at everything, is out of place a lot in schemes, can't stretch the floor, a better under the rim finisher but not great when he's contested.

The pros are that he protects the paint way better, more dependable rebounder, can body up better against bigger centers, is low usage, probably has some untapped top of the key point center abilities, solid screener near the three point line, has that fire/energy that is infectious at times.

Ultimately, I still think WCJ is a better option overall and is sort of getting scapegoated but I do think Goga holds solid value and is a good player. I just as the team as the currently constructed, I think Goga would get exploited more than people think with more scouting and attention on him.

Obviously like I said, my C when this team is expected to go deep in the playoffs is neither.

What a hard question right now. This would have beeb Goga during that 9 game winning streak but lately WCJ is showing us what he is capable of.

Depends who the PG in that lineup is. Goga and Fultz occupy same spot on the floor.

p0peye wrote:Depends who the PG in that lineup is. Goga and Fultz occupy same spot on the floor.

Current lineup.

Or lets say we go with someone like Suggs/Monk or Suggs/Grayson or something going into next season.

Goga in all cases.

Wendell because he's a better overall player.

SOUL wrote:

p0peye wrote:Depends who the PG in that lineup is. Goga and Fultz occupy same spot on the floor.

Current lineup.

Or lets say we go with someone like Suggs/Monk or Suggs/Grayson or something going into next season.

If so, Goga might not be a bad choice at all. Whether we keep or trade WCJ (possibly for those dudes you named) depends on how reliable Isaac is health-wise (I know, I know) and can he sustain to play 25MPG+ on 70 games a season. Yeah, I know.

Goga.

I can’t stand the bad turnovers and the only reason people advocate for Carter moreso is because he can shoot for lack thereof. He doesn’t work well with Paolo defensively or on the boards in tougher matchups.

If Orlando had a point guard they wouldn’t need Carter taking between 2-5 3’s a game pulling him away from the basket. Goga would probably also get more than 6 rebounds as a starting Center playing 26mpg.

The X factor in this question is Isaac. If you don’t trust Goga on switches you have Isaac for those matchups. Therefore you don’t need Carter.

I agree with the OP.

*But I also agree with the limitations Soul mentioned for both. I think the ultimate answer is outside of the current roster but, of the two, I like WCJ getting significant minutes backing up 4/5. Those bright moments of Goga blocking consecutive shots can blind us to his other deficiencies on both ends...Mo's energy and offense make him my choice over Goga for the deep frontcourt spot. We have a lot of good at the C spot but could really use one "very good" switchable rim protector in our next (contending) version of this team.

you left out health as a con for WCJ. he has played 60+ games once in his career, and that once was 62 games. so you never know if he will be available for any post season run. even this year he has missed 27 games. i agree he is more skilled but deficient in some areas you want from the center spot.

If we picked up a shooter in the off season, then Goga.
In the off season though, he needs to work on his mid jumper.
I know he can shoot, he's very hesitant right now on any kind of jump shot.
Don't need him to be shooting 3's just expand his offense just a bit.

I was on the WCJ is being treated as a scapegoat. Then I saw a no-name tossed aside player in Goga step in and do very well. Why?

Sometimes it is about player fit / identity. I think Goga fits our identity better then WCJ does. But to not rant ill do bullet points.

Why Goga
- Better defender overall. He has weakness WCJ doesn't, but that is situational just as it is for WCJ.
- Availability - Goga I believe could have played in every game this season
- WCJ <> Goga on offense. Both I think could score similar points per game in the right offensive system.
- Suggs needs a fellow banger down low.

wcj and its not even close for me ...he is better overall just not close ..i would try to keep goga there just are not many centers that hold up all season team needs 3 for sure solid fill in

orlando_joe wrote:wcj and its not even close for me ...he is better overall just not close ..i would try to keep goga there just are not many centers that hold up all season team needs 3 for sure solid fill in

Goga isnt staying here to be the 3rd center

tiderulz wrote:

orlando_joe wrote:wcj and its not even close for me ...he is better overall just not close ..i would try to keep goga there just are not many centers that hold up all season team needs 3 for sure solid fill in

Goga isnt staying here to be the 3rd center

well he is not staying as starter...so...and mo wagner not going anywhere

tiderulz wrote:

orlando_joe wrote:wcj and its not even close for me ...he is better overall just not close ..i would try to keep goga there just are not many centers that hold up all season team needs 3 for sure solid fill in

Goga isnt staying here to be the 3rd center

yeah we're likely going to have to replace him with a cheap 3rd string center. Queta from Boston might be alright. Not sure who else is available in FA, will have to check the list. Otherwise, draft.

There's a significant advantage in having all 5 players in your starting line up being capable of hitting the 3. Franz is having a down year but should be fine long term. Im gonna go with WCJ for now, but would want to see more from him in terms of consistent effort on the boards and defense. I want to see if he can turn it up in the play offs

If WCJ can be more aggressive on rebounds, definitely him. But if current state, I think it is case to case.

Goga is more slow footed and wont be able to defend opposing agile bigs which could be a problem.

Right now we’re surviving rebounding by committee with Dell at the 5. Goga gives us rim protection and rebounds, but that’s it. Dell gives us a big who is solid enough to defend on the perimeter while being able to stretch the floor.

fendilim wrote:If WCJ can be more aggressive on rebounds, definitely him. But if current state, I think it is case to case.

Goga is more slow footed and wont be able to defend opposing agile bigs which could be a problem.

Right now we’re surviving rebounding by committee with Dell at the 5. Goga gives us rim protection and rebounds, but that’s it. Dell gives us a big who is solid enough to defend on the perimeter while being able to stretch the floor.

are not magic one of the best rebounding teams? does it really matter who gets them?

orlando_joe wrote:

fendilim wrote:If WCJ can be more aggressive on rebounds, definitely him. But if current state, I think it is case to case.

Goga is more slow footed and wont be able to defend opposing agile bigs which could be a problem.

Right now we’re surviving rebounding by committee with Dell at the 5. Goga gives us rim protection and rebounds, but that’s it. Dell gives us a big who is solid enough to defend on the perimeter while being able to stretch the floor.

are not magic one of the best rebounding teams? does it really matter who gets them?

no were are not. we're 22nd in rebounding, 24th in defensive rebounding.