OT: Why oil prices are so high?

[Shishnizzle]

Here is an interesting article to read. If you agree I think it would be a good idea to email this article to everyone you know, and contact your representatives. I did

http://www.businessweek.com/print/lifes ... 720178.htm

[theTHIEF]

so that's how fwd emails start...you're the guy....

[spinedoc]

I agree that a lot of it has to do with artificial fear infused into the stock market. Futures of oil shouldn't be traded on the market imo, not a commodity as important as oil. Buying stock in energy companies is a completely different story however. There are multiple reasons for the price going so high. The first on the list is imagine for a moment that Colonel Sanders was president of the United States, chicken would be sky high. It should come as no secret that we have two of the biggest oil men in government and gas has spiked the way it has. There are other issues too however, like Refining, the Iraq war, natural disasters, the strategic oil reserve, and demand, but its fear in the market that is the biggest cause. All of it is by design, it certainly is not incidental. Wake up America.

[Just Plain Mark]

Wait, so President Bush caused Huricane Katrina, spiked demand in China, and corruption in Nigeria?

And then he blocked attempts to drill in ANWR? All this while achieving a MLB batting avg like approval rating? Got it.

ETA: Either all the commodoties traders are nincompoops (and they could be) or this guy is only accepting the sources that agree with his angle while dismissing the sources that disagree with it (and he is)

[spinedoc]

Wait, so President Bush caused Huricane Katrina, spiked demand in China, and corruption in Nigeria?

And then he blocked attempts to drill in ANWR? All this while achieving a MLB batting avg like approval rating? Got it.

Your joking right? Our policies with out-sourcing to China has a significant effect to China's demand. We send material all the way to China so they can make our widgets and then send them all the way back to be sold at a Wal-mart near you. How much oil does that take? It has a tremendous effect. Plus, we are building a new middle class over there who now are becoming fascinated with the car, just as we have done here. Its our policies with regard to the global market that are having that effect.

Bush senior, an ex-president of this country, is a paid lobbyist and business partner for the Saudi royal family. You can't be fooled about George jr's trips to Saudi Arabia asking for them to open the spigot as a serious attempt do you? They have no intention to increase supply, thats why we have been stockpiling SPROL to its maximum capacity even though its already 90% full. Congress had to pass legislation for him to cease and discontinue. We are in bed with the Saudis. The Iraq war has much to do with that issue as well.

Anwar? You do realize that with all the talk about that oil, that its only a six month supply in the ground right? Why risk screwing up that habitat for six months worth of oil? Ask your congressman why they won't allow drilling off the coast of Florida as to why its a problem. And I already mentioned natural disasters, of course Bush has nothing to do with Katrina, other than not responding to it of course. The president has everything to do with the price of oil Mark. I must respectfully disagree with you.

[N4U|Redux]

Plus, we are building a new middle class over there who now are becoming fascinated with the car, just as we have done here. Its our policies with regard to the global market that are having that effect.

Wait, so a (partial) solution to the problem is to keep China in greater poverty so they cannot afford cars?

BTW - I'm not saying the article is correct or not, I don't care to get into this, I've had enough about politics.

[spinedoc]

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Wait, so a (partial) solution to the problem is to keep China in greater poverty so they cannot afford cars?

BTW - I'm not saying the article is correct or not, I don't care to get into this, I've had enough about politics.

LOL, yeah thats what I was saying. Enjoy your retail job with no benefits N4U. As a side note, did you realize that on a list of countries that export from China that Wal-mart is number three? Think about it.

[N4U|Redux]

LOL, yeah thats what I was saying. Enjoy your retail job with no benefits N4U. As a side note, did you realize that on a list of countries that export from China that Wal-mart is number three? Think about it.

That is what you were saying. You just don't deem the reason their middleclass coming up as a valid reason though.

Isn't the point of globalization to make things cheaper for countries that cannot produce things cheaply (i.e. everything China does for us) while at the same time gradually improving conditions in the countries the industrialized countries rape?

I'd rather pay higher costs for oil because of China's middle class growth (if indeed this is a large factor) then pay higher costs for...everything if we opted to produce it here.

[mhectorgato]

That is what you were saying. You just don't deem the reason their middleclass coming up as a valid reason though.

Isn't the point of globalization to make things cheaper for countries that cannot produce things cheaply (i.e. everything China does for us) while at the same time gradually improving conditions in the countries the industrialized countries rape?

I'd rather pay higher costs for oil because of China's middle class growth (if indeed this is a large factor) then pay higher costs for...everything if we opted to produce it here.

I was listening to Marketplace on NPR the other day on the way home from work and they had a field report from China.

They were saying the 1st Chinese big industrial change was to become low cost producers. However they are trying to move up the food change, and therefore do less of the low wage/cost jobs.

It will take a while, but prices will move up for Chinese products.

[spinedoc]

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That is what you were saying. You just don't deem the reason their middleclass coming up as a valid reason though.

Isn't the point of globalization to make things cheaper for countries that cannot produce things cheaply (i.e. everything China does for us) while at the same time gradually improving conditions in the countries the industrialized countries rape?

I'd rather pay higher costs for oil because of China's middle class growth (if indeed this is a large factor) then pay higher costs for...everything if we opted to produce it here.

Interesting. I wasn't implying to not out-source to China to keep their poverty level high however, lets put that one to bed ok? I'm against out-sourcing because of the lack of standards involved, and the erosion of skilled labor jobs here in this country, many of which are insurance benefits linked. But to address your point about the poverty issue, this policy is actually helping to keep a lot of people in poverty. Not all of the 6 billion Chinese people get decent managerial jobs. Most are chain locked in factories with no health or labor standards, making pennies an hour to make our goods, roughly 30cents an hour if they are lucky. And the only reason that we are doing this btw, is cheap labor, quality isn't an important issue at all.

Meanwhile we have recall after recall of sub-standard products some of which are lead based toys for our children, and dangerous food and drug products that we, and our pets, ingest. The problem with China and their poverty is mainly due to their government. Because they are a communist country, there will always be a great amount of poverty there. Their government keeps most of that money and falsely pegs their currency to create an artificial trade imbalance. They tariff our goods heavily and take that extra money and stockpile their military with it. At some point they become the next super power and we slide further towards being the third world country. As far as the automobile argument, I was merely trying to state an additional fact about their new found fascination with the automobile as another factor as to why the increased demand for oil, but its not the primary factor in the discussion. Your trying to show causality that isn't there N4U.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

Gotta love the doc and his wealth of knowledge (No homo).

I just pasted your thoughts/article to an email to my father casue you put it so succinctly. Hope you don't mind. He always aggrivates me with his Pro bush diatribes! (That even sounds funny to me)

Great article BigCityCat!

[spinedoc]

-= original quote snipped =-



I was listening to Marketplace on NPR the other day on the way home from work and they had a field report from China.

They were saying the 1st Chinese big industrial change was to become low cost producers. However they are trying to move up the food change, and therefore do less of the low wage/cost jobs.

It will take a while, but prices will move up for Chinese products.

Thats a great point hec. If you remember, the first country to gain from our out-sourcing was Mexico. But now because of cheaper labor, China is now the beneficiary of that. If they do move up the chain as you say, then industry will flow to other third world nations. Bangladesh is another big one now, and there will be others added. Its a sickening process dealing with countries that have these brutal and repressive governments, and not using trade as a way of changing regimes. I don't mind free trade, but as long as its fair trade. Its not always the same thing.

[spinedoc]

Gotta love the doc and his wealth of knowledge (No homo).

I just pasted your thoughts/article to an email to my father casue you put it so succinctly. Hope you don't mind. He always aggrivates me with his Pro bush diatribes! (That even sounds funny to me)

Great article BigCityCat!

Not at all. The check is in the mail right?

[N4U|Redux]

Not all of the 6 billion Chinese people get decent managerial jobs.

Yeah, the world population is about 6 billion..

Most are chain locked in factories with no health or labor standards, making pennies an hour to make our goods, roughly 30cents an hour if they are lucky. And the only reason that we are doing this btw, is cheap labor, quality isn't an important issue at all.

So, wait, they're causing an increase oil prices but lowering the prices of other goods significantly. Do you think it evens out? Or, do you want the best of both worlds? Low cost oil and low cost goods?

As far as the automobile argument, I was merely trying to state an additional fact about their new found fascination with the automobile as another factor as to why the increased demand for oil, but its not the primary factor in the discussion.Your trying to show causality that isn't there N4U.

Fair enough, I wasn't sure if you were saying it was a large factor. Why bother mentioning it?

On a side note: are you one of the Americans that only buy garbage Ford/Chevy/Dodge cars because you don't want to fuel Japan's economy by purchasing a Toyota/Honda/Nissan?

[N4U|Redux]

Gotta love the doc and his wealth of knowledge (No homo).

I just pasted your thoughts/article to an email to my father casue you put it so succinctly. Hope you don't mind. He always aggrivates me with his Pro bush diatribes! (That even sounds funny to me)

Great article BigCityCat!

Bush sucks, I cannot wait to see him out, but he also gets too much blame.

[spinedoc]

-= original quote snipped =-



Fair enough, I wasn't sure if you were saying it was a large factor. Why bother mentioning it?

On a side note: are you one of the Americans that only buy garbage Ford/Chevy/Dodge cars because you don't want to fuel Japan's economy by purchasing a Toyota/Honda/Nissan?

Not at all. I do try to buy American however, but you don't always know what that is. Japan is a different story. Thats what I meant by fair trade. They open their markets to us so we can sell American products there, like Coke, and we open our markets so they can sell their goods here. Some of it is even manufactured here in the states, employing Americans and providing good jobs with benefits.

I'm rethinking the 6 Billion number now, maybe its only 2. I'll have to look that up, but I do know that their children population is as much as our entire country, around 300 Million. Good call on that one.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

Seriously... I thought the whole discussion supplemented this article rather nicely. So I sent it off!

And no, I don't think I'll be cutting any checks soon! LOL

[flyingvee]

Too many factors. Bu the increase in dmand from China is not what made the price of a barrel go from $40 to $130. We have a lot of people here to blame for driving huge SUV's like Hummers and Ford F-350's with no cargo and single passengers, plus speeding on the road as if they are driving Vettes. So these monkeys are getting about 10mpg while those that get good fuel economy and about 30mpg. So next time you see a big SUV at the pump, thank them, he's burning 3 times more gas than you are.

And how can be ignore GW. The whole family has and IS in the oil business and in bed with the Saudis. Anyone going to say a family in the oil business has not profited from these oil price increases? Or how about our VP and Haliburton? Sure he's not an officer there anymore, but he owns so much stock, he's profited like crazy with Haliburton in Iraq. Noting better than corporate white collar criminals.

[N4U|Redux]

Too many factors. Bu the increase in dmand from China is not what made the price of a barrel go from $40 to $130. We have a lot of people here to blame for driving huge SUV's like Hummers and Ford F-350's with no cargo and single passengers, plus speeding on the road as if they are driving Vettes. So these monkeys are getting about 10mpg while those that get good fuel economy and about 30mpg. So next time you see a big SUV at the pump, thank them, he's burning 3 times more gas than you are.

It drives me nuts to see, mostly soccer moms, driving vehicles like Hummers.

I've talked to random people at Hummer dealers before (while shopping for my own car at a nearby dealer that was walking distance away), or just friends, and asked them why they need it. My favorite response is when people say "I have two children and go grocery shopping" or something to that effect. Meanwhile, 80% of the time, their Hummer is empty and burning away insane amounts of fuel. Plus, my mother had no problem raising her children and buying grocery...in a car...

Still, its certainly would be a terrible decision to sit there and say "You cannot buy a Hummer unless..."

If the consumer wants to buy a Hummer and has the funds to do so, there's nothing we can do to stop them. Hopefully they'll become more educated, but I haven't heard anything about SUV sales dying down. I know many ladies who want an SUV, for whatever reason.

Bottom line, I think ladies buy these SUV's just to feel powerful; same for the men. Many girls I talk to about it say they "want to feel high up." WTF? I also know guys who have huge diesel trucks that rarely tow anything and bitch about the cost of diesel. Go figure.

[Shishnizzle]

Just checking back. Glad to see some of you guy's were interested. I didn't want to turn this into politics. I'm a libertarian.

What I got from this article and some others is that lobbyist's succeeded in unregulating the futures markets, and that supply and demand were not the reason for high prices. It just means that the price is being dictated by investors. My brother is in the coast guard and he has boarded and seen these ships sitting off shore. He says that oil gets traded 3 times before it gets off loaded.

I don't care because I have been paying attention to new technology's that are dependent on high oil prices. Let me explain. In the past it wasn't feasable to do an electric car mostly because of battery technology. The old battery is a NIMH actually still used by Prius. The new battery is lithium ion, which are 1/4 of the weight and hold power for much longer. Now I know there is a lot of animosity towards GM, but GM is working very hard to produce what is called an EREV extened range electric vehicle. Thess vehicles are the future. They run off of LI ion battery, they have 4 electric motors that drive the wheeles and a 4 cylinder 1.5 liter ICE that will charge the battery after it gets down to 30%. They never allow the battery to be charged past 80% and they never let it go below 30 % to extend the life of the battery. You can plug it in at home and charge it over night for about a dollar a day and you get 40 miles all electric at about 62 miles per hour. You can still drive long distances because of the ICE at speeds of up to 120 mph. Your millage is dictated by how much you drive. If you drive under 40 miles a day you won't have to use gas at all. GM's push to bring out thye Volt has spurned all other auto manufactures into a race. They are all anouncing new production lines. It will be 2010 before you begin to see them. The vehicles will be expensive but if gas prices are high. They are feasable. I will put a couple links for you guys to take a look at.

http://gm-volt.com/

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/05/20/afs-trinity-xh150/