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Trade Turkoglu Now? (Trade Proposal)

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Post#81 » by spinedoc » Fri May 23, 2008 6:17 pm

dwightmeer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



They are way to high on Aldridge, as they should be. He compliments Oden very well.


That may be true, but they also have Pryz and Frye to go along with Oden, someone has got to be available. I like them all actually. Hedo next to Roy would be pretty sweet for them. I'm thinking they would be interested in a deal.
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Post#82 » by Dwightmare » Fri May 23, 2008 6:19 pm

MagicFan149 wrote:huh?? am i missing something i dont see where you proposed this to them??


ya
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Post#83 » by Optimus_Steel » Fri May 23, 2008 6:20 pm

Frye would be the odd man out.
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Post#84 » by MagicFan149 » Fri May 23, 2008 6:22 pm

the link you posted is a toronto thread... not a portland thread and at no point in that thread was there a offer with hedo involved... but i dont really care... its cool.... still like the deal
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Post#85 » by spinedoc » Fri May 23, 2008 6:24 pm

prorl wrote:Frye would be the odd man out.


Thats fine. Give me Frye and Jack for Hedo and #22 then. It might need some tweaking, but it could work nicely for both clubs.
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Post#86 » by theTHIEF » Fri May 23, 2008 6:28 pm

Frye+Jack+#13 for Hedo+#22? we get the short end there...
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Post#87 » by Dwightmare » Fri May 23, 2008 6:39 pm

MagicFan149 wrote:the link you posted is a toronto thread... not a portland thread and at no point in that thread was there a offer with hedo involved... but i dont really care... its cool.... still like the deal


Sorry bro, what i meant is that you thought that

Hedo + 22 for TO, Sergio and 13 was overvaluing

and that post said that

Calderon (+ no pick) >> than TO and 13

I was just showing you a worse example of overvaluing IMO, with a lot of the same pieces involved.
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Post#88 » by MagicFan149 » Fri May 23, 2008 6:47 pm

^ i c i c... its all good
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Post#89 » by CourtsideTV » Fri May 23, 2008 7:56 pm

Do you. Do you..have a first aid kid handy..
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Post#90 » by MagicFan149 » Fri May 23, 2008 8:07 pm

:dontknow:
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Post#91 » by SOUL » Fri May 23, 2008 8:45 pm

holy moly.. some of you would ravage our team if you were GM
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Post#92 » by lovehoops01 » Sat May 24, 2008 1:30 am

theTHIEF wrote:Frye+Jack+#13 for Hedo+#22? we get the short end there...


No joke....Frye's not exactly the brute power forward we've been talking about.
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Post#93 » by CourtsideTV » Sat May 24, 2008 3:16 am

frye is softer than garrity
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Post#94 » by spinedoc » Sat May 24, 2008 3:38 am

lovehoops01 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



No joke....Frye's not exactly the brute power forward we've been talking about.


No offense lovehoops, but I see you knock down a lot of trade proposals. Which is fine, I do it too, but I'm yet to see you stick your neck out and come up with an idea of your own. Given that comment, Aldridge wouldn't fit your requirements either then.

I'm having doubts about putting big money into a two sf lineup long term. I never imagined getting Lewis for the max and having him play pf for his entire six years. If its a two year plan to move him back to his spot, I can live with that. But I fail to see the logic in having him play there for his entire contract. Our biggest need this offseason is a sg with the mle and not through the draft imo, but we also need to start planning for Battie and Cook's deals expiring too. Frye and #13 could do that very nicely. I don't see any big out there for the mle that can do that for us this summer and fill the hole at pg at the same time. Nelson and Dooling manning the spot is a joke to me.

I like Hedo, but lets be honest. He's had one great year, and its no guarantee that he produces like that year after year going forward. If we can fill two holes and move up to get a better looking prospect, I don't see why that would be bad for us. Arthur or maybe Alexander may slip to that spot. This lineup looks like an improvement to me.

pg-nelson, jack
sg-mle(pietrus?), bogans, jj
sf-lewis, evans
pf-frye, arthur, cook
c-dwight, battie
ir-foyle, gortat, second round pg
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Post#95 » by lovehoops01 » Sat May 24, 2008 6:13 am

spinedoc wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



No offense lovehoops, but I see you knock down a lot of trade proposals. Which is fine, I do it too, but I'm yet to see you stick your neck out and come up with an idea of your own. Given that comment, Aldridge wouldn't fit your requirements either then.

I'm having doubts about putting big money into a two sf lineup long term. I never imagined getting Lewis for the max and having him play pf for his entire six years. If its a two year plan to move him back to his spot, I can live with that. But I fail to see the logic in having him play there for his entire contract. Our biggest need this offseason is a sg with the mle and not through the draft imo, but we also need to start planning for Battie and Cook's deals expiring too. Frye and #13 could do that very nicely. I don't see any big out there for the mle that can do that for us this summer and fill the hole at pg at the same time. Nelson and Dooling manning the spot is a joke to me.

I like Hedo, but lets be honest. He's had one great year, and its no guarantee that he produces like that year after year going forward. If we can fill two holes and move up to get a better looking prospect, I don't see why that would be bad for us. Arthur or maybe Alexander may slip to that spot. This lineup looks like an improvement to me.

pg-nelson, jack
sg-mle(pietrus?), bogans, jj
sf-lewis, evans
pf-frye, arthur, cook
c-dwight, battie
ir-foyle, gortat, second round pg


No offense taken. I shoot down the proposals that I don't think will work for the team. And I didn't realize that there was a requirement that we come up with trade proposals. I come here to talk about the Magic, not necessarily talk about changing their roster. I don't necessarily think that I am smarter than the people doing this for a living.

I prefer to just point out holes in the roster where I see it. If I see a player I love and I think he'll fit in Orlando and it is possible to acquire him, I'll say it.

In the case of Frye, I just don't think he fits with the team's goals. What did Stan say they need? Another big who can pound on some people and help Dwight with the boards, a scorer off the bench and a wing player who can create his own shot or one for someone else off the dribble. Those last two could be the same player. Who is Frye? A jump-shooting power forward. I don't hate Frye. I just don't see where Frye fits any of those criteria. Therefore, in my opinion, the Magic would be making that trade just for the sake of making a trade. And they would be getting a player with fewer skills in return. Aldridge, in my opinion, is closer than Frye because he is tougher and is a better rebounder. And his shot is more consistent.

Who am I dreaming of? I want a clone of Horace Grant -- a big, strong power forward with a nice little jump shot, the ability to pound on people and who is sneaky-dirty on defense. I love Al Horford, but I don't think the Hawks are going to give him to the Magic. For years, I wanted P.J. Brown, but the Magic never could get him here, and his NBA time is winding down now. I liked Andrew Bynum even before Kobe did but don't see the Lakers giving him up (and I think it will be interesting to see how he comes back from his injury next season. And no, I wouldn't trade Dwight for him.). I like Marcus Camby, though I wish he was a little beefier. I like Udonis Haslem, but I don't think there is any way in hell that the Magic get him from Riley. I like Carlos Boozer (and in fact really wanted the Magic to draft him the year he came out), but it does kind of look like there a might be a plan for him to get to the Heat, and I would hate to waste assets to acquire a guy who would turn around and leave after one season. The Magic have been taken advantage of enough in the past.

Note: Let me point out that I am not addressing you in particular with this comment....But in my opinion, a lot of the trades that get proposed here are just that -- proposals to make a trade for the sake of making one. And I know that's going to happen here, so fine. Like anyone who is not currently on the Magic's roster is better than the players on the roster. And a lot of times I think that is because they don't watch every play that guy makes on his current team, like they do with the Magic players. They only see their highlights. A lot of times, I think it would help if people would say why they think the Magic should make that deal, how it makes the team better, and how it fits into what they have said they are looking for -- instead of just saying, "The Magic should go for that guy, and this is what the lineup should be.''

As you might remember, I don't watch a lot of college basketball so my views on the draft talent are not really important. I watch a few NBA games every night that the Magic don't play at home pretty much so I know the players already in the league better and how they might fit. There are some college guys who I think I might like after watching the NCAA Tournament, but I don't know who is likely to be available when the Magic pick at 22. As it gets closer to the draft, I might have a better idea. I might like them to move up to try to get a young big, but it depends upon what the other team would want in return -- I don't know if the Magic can spare the parts it would cost because teams always are trying to get as much as they can back in a trade, and the Magic can't really spare much of what they have if they want to continue to improve. And like Stan Van Gundy, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to trade a productive player for someone who we never have seen play an NBA game and have no idea how his game will translate to the league -- unless you are 95 percent certain that guy is a lock to be a good NBA player. And the only two players who have been identified by "experts'' as locks are Michael Beasley and Derrick Rose. I don't see any way the Magic get one of those guys unless they trade Dwight Howard, and I am NOT in favor of doing that to acquire them either.
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Post#96 » by spinedoc » Sat May 24, 2008 12:45 pm

Thanks lovehoops, I appreciate the explanation. I responded to your post because I read a lot of what you have to say, and am interested in seeing a lovehoops approved roster once in awhile, or a plan to make this team better. I know a lot of trades get thrown against the wall here, I do it myself, but this site is called realgm. If we can't do that here, I don't know where else would be a better place for that. I've had some impulse ideas that I'd like to take back too, so it doesn't bother me to sift through trade proposals at all. I'm interested in seeing any idea that would make this team better.

To give a cheesy analogy here. For me its like being at a picnic with two burgers on my plate. I'd trade one away to get an ear of corn and a side of beans to have a more balanced and therefore successful meal. I wouldn't sit there the entire time worrying about the price of beef as I ate. I just don't think this team is balanced the way that it is currently constructed. Its fun to watch and will give us mild success, but its tough to see it as a championship team at times. And before we lock ourselves in an immovable position long term, we better realize that fact sooner rather than later. I'm just not buying the hype on this board about Hedo is all. Everyone keeps saying that he's our best play maker and ball handler and that we would be foolish to get rid of him. Its more foolish to me to continue to run our offense through a sf and pay max money to a guy and have him play out of position long term. I don't see Detroit doing that with Prince, even though he's more than capable of that role. Instead, I see balance.

I hear you with regard to Stan's quotes, and I believe he's the only one who gives us any semblance of truth. But for all we know, his another big who can pound some people and help out on the boards could be Battie. Who we didn't have last year. His scorer off the bench could be Cook, who was hurt for the playoffs. And his wing player who can create his own shot, could be an mle target this off season. Its very tough to read these guys, and thats why we see so many different ideas on this board. At times, I wouldn't be surprised that this is where Otis gets some of his ideas in the first place actually. Again, I appreciate the response though LH. Nothing is straight forward when it comes to professional sports. Its a constant morphing and changing beast. :wink:
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Post#97 » by lovehoops01 » Wed May 28, 2008 7:10 am

No problem. It's not that I'm not for any change. But I want that change to be pretty sure of making the team better, and I'm just not sure that a lot of the ideas I have seen would produce a net better team. A balanced team with less talent does not necessarily create a better team. When I don't think it will, I'll just express that view.

I understand what you are saying about Rashard, and I never thought the Magic should play him at power forward consistently, even this season, because I worry about his health long term. But I am not sure that he played significantly better than Hedo this season, even though the Magic did pay him really big money. To say you have to trade Hedo so Rashard gets all the minutes at his natural position might hurt the team in two ways -- in that you paid so much for a player who wasn't as productive as Turkoglu and that you traded Hedo for perhaps a lesser player so that Rashard could play small forward full time. And if you do trade Turkoglu, you still are going to need another small forward to play when Lewis does not.

I think that Hedo might be able to play a few minutes at the SG and then Stan might be able to create a rotation that they both can play some significant minutes at small forward. It's not like Hedo never has played any shooting guard before. At the very least, I think they should give that a try to see how it works before they deal away a very productive player at risk of getting someone not as productive back and hurting the team's overall performance.

A roster with a Lovehoops "A'' rating would add a young enforcer who can rebound, block out and shoot a jump shot reasonably consistently at the power forward spot and would add a shooting guard who can help with ball handling and more consistent scoring (including a little slashing to the basket) as well as adding some athleticism and speed. I am in favor of adding a tall point guard, not to replace Jameer but to complement his play. I also realize that I can't necessarily have everything I want, but I can dream, can't I? That doesn't mean that I will be totally down on the team if all that doesn't happen, but it would be my dream roster. I don't think you have to worry about my approval of the roster as much as about 98 percent of the rest of the posters on this board. And no matter what happens, that's probably going to be true.

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