Jason Williams to Orlando?

Heat55 · Post #81 » by **Heat55** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:39 pm

As someone who has followed Jwill's entire career I'd like to offer my two cents on the Jwill debate. The argument against Jwill goes like this:
He can't play defense. His knees are shot. Hes washed up. He gets injured too often. He takes ill advised shots.

All of those things are true to a certain extent -- except for him being washed up. The main reason Heat fans are so sour on the guy is because Riley's "slow-it-down" offense just didnt utilize his talents. Jwill is still a magician in the open floor and will run a fast break as good as any PG in this league.... His court vision is uncanny and occasionally you will still see some of that flair from his Kings days. The problem for Jwill in Miami is that Riley just didnt let him run. If that team ran the floor twice a game it was a lot.

People complain about Jwill's shot selection but the guy is a streak shooter. When he gets hot, his shooting can really get a team going. He still hits a lot of 3s and can be an explosive offensive player when called upon. (I'm sure some of you remember when he dropped 34 on Orlando at the end of last season with Wade and Marion both out). But Jwills true talent is in creating for others... something he was rarely given the opportunity to do while playing next to Wade in Miami.

Jwill has lost a bit of his explosiveness since the knee surgery but he is still faster than most point guards in this league. I admit that if you are looking for a defensive PG, he is not your guy. But, besides the occasional ill advised three, he still makes great decisions with the ball and does a lot of little things as a facilitator that most PGs don't do. His post entry passing is also among the best in the league. Superman will love playing with this guy... he'll get so many easy dunks.

So when you evaluate Jwill, just remember that its hard to look good when your role is basically... get the Ball to Wade, clear out a side, and watch him go 1 on 3. Jwills game was just not suited to Miami's offense. Yet even in that system where Wade dominates the ball, Jwill still managed one of the best Assist/TO ratios in the league and over 5 assists per game.

The bottom line is... Jwill wasnt given much of a chance to do his thing in Miami. If given the chance to play his game and get up and down the floor, I think you'll be surprised at what he has left in the tank. Trust me, this guy could be a real offensive spark plug off the bench. If he stays healthy Jwill will be a great backup in a 20-25 minute per game role.

spinedoc · Post #82 » by **spinedoc** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:45 pm

Richboy, enough with beating that dead horse. That carcass is rotten to the bone by now, cut the rope already.

Also, thanks Heat55, nice assessment. I agree that his strengths are in the transition game and on the fast break. He will be just fine as a backup, provided that we get one more just in case. I'd take DA for that third spot in a heartbeat.

TheRevTy · Post #83 » by **TheRevTy** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:50 pm

Man, I just remember his passing as a young buck for Sacramento. He made assists cool again.

Remember the off-the-elbow pass in the rookie game?

N4U|Redux · Post #84 » by **N4U|Redux** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:00 am

TheRevTy wrote:Man, I just remember his passing as a young buck for Sacramento. He made assists cool again.

Remember the off-the-elbow pass in the rookie game?

He was certainly sick.

Though, as one watched him more and more, at least I, also got frustrated with him. He'd still do that crap in the 4th qtr and it was irritating. Though, he did make me like the Kings.

Shishnizzle · Post #85 » by **Shishnizzle** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:00 am

I can't remember it....because he is older than Fred FlintStone. I got Alzheimer's he soo damn old.

MitchellUK · Post #86 » by **MitchellUK** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:01 am

TheRevTy wrote:Man, I just remember his passing as a young buck for Sacramento. He made assists cool again.

Remember the off-the-elbow pass in the rookie game?

Weird, that was the first thing that came into my head when I saw that we may sign him. That, and (also in the rookie game, I think) a rainbow three pointer that went about 25ft into the air before swishing through. Everyone at my high school loved Williams playing the point, and you're right, he made assists cool again.

MitchellUK · Post #87 » by **MitchellUK** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:03 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67OB3VSP ... re=related

EasternMagic · Post #88 » by **EasternMagic** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:05 am

richboy wrote:
EasternMagic wrote:Richboy even if you do take this year out Wallace has still missed more than Wallace... and I don't really understand the significance in taking this year out just because he was in a Magic jersey doesn't mean he's a different person.... Wallace has more injury issues than Lewis does

This dates back to a discussion of what should have been done a year ago. Anything that happens now is hindsight. 1 year ago Wallace was a sought after free agent that was being discussed all over the league. Was almost traded to the Lakers in a three way deal for RJ and Odom. Wallace at half of Lewis salary despite being more productive. Still would have had money for another free agent is better to me than Rashard at 20 per and nothing else. If you told me last year Wallace would miss 20 games with concussion I still would take Crash and whoever else I received in free agency over potentially making Rashard the most overpaid player in pro sports.

[/quote]

But still if you take this year out Rashard has missed 38 games over the past 4 years.... Wallace has missed 69! His injury problems are far worse than Lewis'..... Yes Wallace is more athletic, but Lewis is a better fit for us in my mind.. He's a big who can shoot a high percentage from the three which spreads the floor soo much and basically helped make hedo into who he was this year. Imagine if we had Wallace this year and he missed the 20 games he missed in charlotte.... We would have been screwed who would fill his spot? Lewis is less injury prone and a better fit....

EasternMagic · Post #89 » by **EasternMagic** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:07 am

MitchellUK wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67OB3VSPK_A&feature=related

Wow... I don't know how i have never seen that before but that was awesome

TheRevTy · Post #90 » by **TheRevTy** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:18 am

Being older doesn't make you less able to pass the ball... maybe he still has that flair in him, but Lucifer Riley scared it out of him...

richboy · Post #91 » by **richboy** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:30 am

spinedoc wrote:Richboy, enough with beating that dead horse. That carcass is rotten to the bone by now, cut the rope already.

Also, thanks Heat55, nice assessment. I agree that his strengths are in the transition game and on the fast break. He will be just fine as a backup, provided that we get one more just in case. I'd take DA for that third spot in a heartbeat.

Mhec brought this up not me.

EasternMagic wrote:Richboy even if you do take this year out Wallace has still missed more than Wallace... and I don't really understand the significance in taking this year out just because he was in a Magic jersey doesn't mean he's a different person.... Wallace has more injury issues than Lewis does

This dates back to a discussion of what should have been done a year ago. Anything that happens now is hindsight. 1 year ago Wallace was a sought after free agent that was being discussed all over the league. Was almost traded to the Lakers in a three way deal for RJ and Odom. Wallace at half of Lewis salary despite being more productive. Still would have had money for another free agent is better to me than Rashard at 20 per and nothing else. If you told me last year Wallace would miss 20 games with concussion I still would take Crash and whoever else I received in free agency over potentially making Rashard the most overpaid player in pro sports.[/quote][/quote]

But still if you take this year out Rashard has missed 38 games over the past 4 years.... Wallace has missed 69! His injury problems are far worse than Lewis'..... Yes Wallace is more athletic, but Lewis is a better fit for us in my mind.. He's a big who can shoot a high percentage from the three which spreads the floor soo much and basically helped make hedo into who he was this year. Imagine if we had Wallace this year and he missed the 20 games he missed in charlotte.... We would have been screwed who would fill his spot? Lewis is less injury prone and a better fit....[/quote]

I can say Wallace is a better fit because he a slasher that a tremendous perimeter defender. That could play SG or SF. Who would have cost the team much less and given a ton more flexibility with other signings and potential trades in the future. This team needs a lot more than just spot up jump shots. Imagine if we had Wallace and Nocioni. You upgrade 2 spots and if Wallace is injured for a spell you still have Noc providing almost the same what Rashard brings.

Just for note Wallace was not the guy that I wanted to sign. I'm just saying I would have went Wallace over Lewis for the price that Rashard was demanding. My move would have been Billups #1, wait till this offseason #2 or if you had to spend now Vince Carter #3.

macdalejax · Post #92 » by **macdalejax** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:37 am

Make it happen Otis

Forest · Post #93 » by **Forest** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:55 am

Jason Williams is a decent pickup. Nothing special and def not anything to get excited about either. But like someone said he is a decent player in the open floor. He averaged roughly 5apg which would rank third on our team. I don't know about you but I want someone who comes up the floor looking to pass unlike arroyo and dooling. He has his chukcing problems too but at least statistically he gets some assists. And with one of the best 3 points shooting teams and an alley oop machine in Dwight, he can't get any worse.

DiplomaticMagic · Post #94 » by **DiplomaticMagic** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:25 am

Forest wrote:Jason Williams is a decent pickup. Nothing special and def not anything to get excited about either. But like someone said he is a decent player in the open floor. He averaged roughly 5apg which would rank third on our team. I don't know about you but I want someone who comes up the floor looking to pass unlike arroyo and dooling. He has his chukcing problems too but at least statistically he gets some assists. And with one of the best 3 points shooting teams and an alley oop machine in Dwight, he can't get any worse.

He only avg 1 more Assist than Arroyo. And he plays alot more minutes. This guy is injured alot. He can't play back-to-back games most of the time. He can't defend. Like you said he has chucking problems too, but more than most of our roster. Please get Anthony Johnson instead of him. Or get Hammonds from SL. He looked really good today. I rather have a bought-out Marbury than J-Will.

paperboymafia · Post #95 » by **paperboymafia** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:12 am

i thnk he'd surprise all of us in a running game which orlando can provide.

SpaceCoastGator · Post #96 » by **SpaceCoastGator** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:43 am

I'd like to JWill, but would hope our going after him would be more of a plan b or plan c. Stan knows him and he has a ring...with our tempo/system he might work out ok, but I'd rather see a PG with more defensive ability...I think that Kyle Lowry via trade should be our target (plan a)...he can continue to grow with us.

Lots of folks keep talking about another big, but without a doubt the first order of business is a back up PG...I'd say that addressing the third PG is of a higher of priority than another big. Rashard is our 4 and Tony is backing Dwight & RL...Cook and Gortat as 4th and 5th...I want to hear about PG's!

drsd · Post #97 » by **drsd** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:42 am

spinedoc wrote:J-Will for the LLE isn't a bad move. I'd take that. Also, I thought the LLE and BAE were one in the same, no? We are still going to need another pg even if its on the IR in case Lee can't do the job as a third stringer. There will be others for a fair price to round out the rotation. I'm not too worried about it.

Williams' agent seems to be trying to squeeze the bi-annual exception from the Magic. THis year, is starts somewhere around 2.5M . The probably is the Magic start coming very close to the Lux tax.

At this point, Bogans or Redick AND Cook (two players) might need to be dumped for the Magic to get another PG and have room to sign a Summer Leaguer.

lovehoops01 · Post #98 » by **lovehoops01** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:55 am

N4U|Redux wrote:
richboy wrote:The goal should be to improve not to just change the names. I said at best. Personally I think its more of a downgrade at the point position.

Ideally, but not every move needs to be an improvement for there to be an improvement as a whole.

Sometimes lateral moves are fine, especially in the case of minor role players.

Problem is J.Will would not be a minor role player on this team the way it is looking right now. He would be the backup to Jameer, who only played about half the minutes at point guard in individual games last season.

And Horcy, as for it looking like the team has become attractive to come to.....???? Because Jason Williams, who lives in Orlando in the offseason anyway and is winding down his career anyway, wants to come here. I was hoping for more guys like James Posey and McDyess and etc. to be the type of guys who they'd be luring.

durden_tyler · Post #99 » by **durden_tyler** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:05 am

Not sure where my post went. But you guys will be pleasantly surprised how Jason will be effective if and when he healthy (which is an issue indeed).

A lot of you are underestimating him as well for by January the issue will be "who needs to start" battle between him and Nelson.

Also, so glad that he is rumored to be interested with the Magic--- in a few years time here in RealGM, this board is one of the most active--- hope you have room for us, Jwill fans!

N4U|Redux · Post #100 » by **N4U|Redux** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:31 am

lovehoops01 wrote:
N4U|Redux wrote:
richboy wrote:The goal should be to improve not to just change the names. I said at best. Personally I think its more of a downgrade at the point position.

Ideally, but not every move needs to be an improvement for there to be an improvement as a whole.

Sometimes lateral moves are fine, especially in the case of minor role players.

Problem is J.Will would not be a minor role player on this team the way it is looking right now. He would be the backup to Jameer, who only played about half the minutes at point guard in individual games last season.

And Horcy, as for it looking like the team has become attractive to come to.....???? Because Jason Williams, who lives in Orlando in the offseason anyway and is winding down his career anyway, wants to come here. I was hoping for more guys like James Posey and McDyess and etc. to be the type of guys who they'd be luring.

Damn, the "minor role player" description is being ripped to shreds.

The point did not only apply to "minor role players" (though, lateral moves are less irritating the more irrelevant a player is); the point was that we could feasibly have an improved team going into the next season with any number of lateral movements singularly being done too. The point being...not all movements can be lateral, but they all don't have to be improvements either.