I know you love Hedo, BUT...

Optimus_Steel · Post #41 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:06 pm

I still think its stupid to trade Hedo for a couple of role players who prob will not start.

cedric76 · Post #42 » by **cedric76** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:47 pm

i'm all for keeping Lewis at PF,he can hold himself against other PF in this league.
we now have battie to back him up ,MP can spend some time there too (he did it in GS)
i love teh missmatch we offer when we ahev lewis at PF

vagnermagic · Post #43 » by **vagnermagic** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:09 pm

Cecrid said it all.

Hedo was a huge part of our success last season and Lewis can hold his own at PF. And now we have Battie to help him. I would not trade him for any of the guys in the poll.

And about Barbosa, he wouldn't be an upagrade at the point, cause he simply can't play PG. He is a SG, a scorer.

Magicalltheway · Post #44 » by **Magicalltheway** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:45 pm

Sorry, Im not trading 2 players and they are Dwight and Hedo. Rashard on the other hand you can give my any senarios and you will have my blessings. Simply because Hedo is a player that is pretty much unsimilar to most players out there. He is basically the only 6'10 I know that can play 4 positions and play them very well.
I can dream of trading away $120some million, What not can we get for that money.

drsd · Post #45 » by **drsd** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:32 pm

Magicalltheway wrote:Sorry, Im not trading 2 players and they are Dwight and Hedo. Rashard on the other hand you can give my any senarios and you will have my blessings. Simply because Hedo is a player that is pretty much unsimilar to most players out there. He is basically the only 6'10 I know that can play 4 positions and play them very well.
I can dream of trading away $120some million, What not can we get for that money.

Lewis is a far greater talent than Turkoglu. That said, for the contract level, Hedo is a valuable asset.

lapassione · Post #46 » by **lapassione** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:47 pm

drsd wrote:
Lewis is a far greater talent than Turkoglu. That said, for the contract level, Hedo is a valuable asset.

I have to disagree. Lewis only shoots 3pts a little bit more consistent. But thats it. Anything else, Hedo is better. Its only because of his salary we're unable to trade Ra$hard.
I am sure once we re-sign hedo next offseason for 4-5 yrs around 50-60M $, people will stop making trade hedo threads.
We wont be trading our best Howard feeder on the team.

DontPushMe · Post #47 » by **DontPushMe** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:56 pm

glennathan wrote:or instead of giving up a first how about we dump Fran's butt on another team instead of giving us that headache every year.

that is assuming anyone values fran the same as a first round pick... at this point i doubt we could get a 2nd in return for him

richboy · Post #48 » by **richboy** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:24 pm

McDaddy wrote:Josh Smith wants out of Atlanta, so why is it not poissible to sign and trade him. If we trade Hedo and Redick and maybe a future pick, Atlanta can sign him a contract starting at $ 10.800.000 (120% of the contracts from Hedo en Redick). The only problem is that we are hitting the lux tax, but we would have a starting line-up of;

Jameer
Pietrus
Lewis
Smith
Howard

This is a really young core, locked up for a couple of years and is able to compete with the best.

If Josh receives a 20% pay raise he becomes BYC. Pretty much meaning they could only take alittle more salary back than what he was paid last year. The rest of the salray would have to go to a team under the cap.

If I'm Atlanta I would look to trade him because Horford would be a better PF than Josh Smith. Josh is a SF that has to be hidden at PF because he lacks SF skills. I would trade Josh for a legit center if I was them.

richboy · Post #49 » by **richboy** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:28 pm

drsd wrote:
Magicalltheway wrote:Sorry, Im not trading 2 players and they are Dwight and Hedo. Rashard on the other hand you can give my any senarios and you will have my blessings. Simply because Hedo is a player that is pretty much unsimilar to most players out there. He is basically the only 6'10 I know that can play 4 positions and play them very well.
I can dream of trading away $120some million, What not can we get for that money.

Lewis is a far greater talent than Turkoglu. That said, for the contract level, Hedo is a valuable asset.

Far greater? How you figure. Hedo is better than Rashard at every aspect of the game except Rashard jump shot is a tad bit better. Really what would make Rashard a far greater talent? I think a case could be made that Hedo is the far greater talent. He is a better passer, rebounder, defender at SF, ball handler than Rashard.

drsd · Post #50 » by **drsd** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:44 am

lapassione wrote:
drsd wrote:Lewis is a far greater talent than Turkoglu.

I have to disagree.

richboy wrote:
drsd wrote:Lewis is a far greater talent than Turkoglu.

Far greater? How you figure.

Well, we clearly evaluate the Magic talent differently. Lewis at the 3 is a consistent 20/5 guy. Hedo is less consistent over his career and is basically a 15/5 guy.

Last year was a career year for Hedo. It is unlikely that he will improve on the 19/5/5 season he gave the Magic last year (but here's hoping he does!). Lewis out of position at the 4 still went for 17/6; and this was with Howard in addition to Turkoglu absorbing shot opportunities from Lewis.

Rccanes2311 · Post #51 » by **Rccanes2311** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:22 pm

drsd wrote:
lapassione wrote:
drsd wrote:Lewis is a far greater talent than Turkoglu.

I have to disagree.

richboy wrote:
drsd wrote:Lewis is a far greater talent than Turkoglu.

Far greater? How you figure.

Well, we clearly evaluate the Magic talent differently. Lewis at the 3 is a consistent 20/5 guy. Hedo is less consistent over his career and is basically a 15/5 guy.

Last year was a career year for Hedo. It is unlikely that he will improve on the 19/5/5 season he gave the Magic last year (but here's hoping he does!). Lewis out of position at the 4 still went for 17/6; and this was with Howard in addition to Turkoglu absorbing shot opportunities from Lewis.

That's just dumb, if Lewis was so much better than Turk he would've been taking those 4th qtr shots and had Prince guarding him all playoffs. No one is afraid of Lewis and people put their best defenders on Turk and do everything to stop Howard the man was shooting open 3ptrs all year. The Magic's MVP last year was Howard, but a strong argument could be made for Hedo with his 4th qtr heroics and improved game due mostly to the fact he was given the green light by SVG. Everyone got noticbly better because SVG gave everyone the green light and didn't play that conservative crap liek Hill.

magicfanatic23 · Post #52 » by **magicfanatic23** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:47 pm

Rashard's body of work suggests that he is the greater talent. No doubt last year Hedo was the better player for us. However, looking at their careers, it shows Lewis is a better player. Lewis had to sacrifice a lot of his numbers for the good of the team. I still am of the thought that if Lewis was playing the 3 he would be putting up the same numbers he put up in Seattle. (22 pts/5 reb)
Also, whoever thinks Hedo is a better defender than Rashard needs to watch some game film. Rashard's defense against Bosh in the playoffs was fantastic. Idk if I can say Hedo's defense was good against anyone who was an all star caliber player.

Yes, Hedo was the better player last year. But I still believe if Rashard was playing in his normal position, it would show how good he really is.

Rccanes2311 · Post #53 » by **Rccanes2311** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:07 pm

magicfanatic23 wrote:Rashard's body of work suggests that he is the greater talent. No doubt last year Hedo was the better player for us. However, looking at their careers, it shows Lewis is a better player. Lewis had to sacrifice a lot of his numbers for the good of the team. I still am of the thought that if Lewis was playing the 3 he would be putting up the same numbers he put up in Seattle. (22 pts/5 reb)
Also, whoever thinks Hedo is a better defender than Rashard needs to watch some game film. Rashard's defense against Bosh in the playoffs was fantastic. Idk if I can say Hedo's defense was good against anyone who was an all star caliber player.

Yes, Hedo was the better player last year. But I still believe if Rashard was playing in his normal position, it would show how good he really is.

Since when is 22.9pts and 8 rebs FANTASTIC defense. Lewis spent most of the year launching open 3 ptrs all year long. he lost 5 pts of production because he had to play pf??? Reshard had one good game in which he played defense. Bosh came out and said he played a bad game and it wouldn't happen again. Even a blind squirl finds a nut every now and then.

Hedo is far from a good defensive player but Reshard aint any good at it either id say it's a wash for both of them, but Lewis literally doesnt make his presence felt at all on the court in any way except hitting the occasional three. There are times when I forget he's even on the team. 22pts and 5 rebs on a garbage team proves nothing to me about how good someone is as a player. I guess Zack Randolph is better than Howard cause he's been putting up 20pts and 10 rebs longer right.

magicfanatic23 · Post #54 » by **magicfanatic23** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:13 pm

You may forget a big part of Rashard's game is playing in the post. However, since he is playing the 4 he can not post players up. When he played the 3 in Seattle, he posted up other small forwards all the time. He can do far more than just hit 3 pointers, it is just he doesn't really have the opportunity.

Rccanes2311 · Post #55 » by **Rccanes2311** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:25 pm

magicfanatic23 wrote:You may forget a big part of Rashard's game is playing in the post. However, since he is playing the 4 he can not post players up. When he played the 3 in Seattle, he posted up other small forwards all the time. He can do far more than just hit 3 pointers, it is just he doesn't really have the opportunity.

Then he needs to adapt. If he was as good as you think he is the whole pf excuse wouldn't matter. That guy is 6'10 and part of his game is posting up, but he's playing out of position when thats exactly the type of things a 6'10 person should be doing? Comon now the guy is 6'10 and can't rebound worth a crap which bothers me alot. It also bothers me that at this height people on here are NEEscreaming he's playing out of position HE DS TO MAN THE HELL UP THEN IF HE WAS SO TALENTED IT SHOUDNT BE A PROBLEM. He should be third fiddle the guy doesn't have to heart to be the number 1 and he doesn't versatility aprently to be anyones number 2 either so he should be 3rd fiddle on this team.

Horcy · Post #56 » by **Horcy** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:43 pm

I love Hedo, but I would trade him and Redick/Bogans to houston, for Scola and Bobby jackson

magicfanatic23 · Post #57 » by **magicfanatic23** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:00 pm

Rccanes2311 wrote:
magicfanatic23 wrote:You may forget a big part of Rashard's game is playing in the post. However, since he is playing the 4 he can not post players up. When he played the 3 in Seattle, he posted up other small forwards all the time. He can do far more than just hit 3 pointers, it is just he doesn't really have the opportunity.

Then he needs to adapt. If he was as good as you think he is the whole pf excuse wouldn't matter. That guy is 6'10 and part of his game is posting up, but he's playing out of position when thats exactly the type of things a 6'10 person should be doing? Comon now the guy is 6'10 and can't rebound worth a crap which bothers me alot. It also bothers me that at this height people on here are NEEscreaming he's playing out of position HE DS TO MAN THE HELL UP THEN IF HE WAS SO TALENTED IT SHOUDNT BE A PROBLEM. He should be third fiddle the guy doesn't have to heart to be the number 1 and he doesn't versatility aprently to be anyones number 2 either so he should be 3rd fiddle on this team.

Hedo Turkoglu is also 6'10. You say he can't rebound worth a crap. Neither can Turk. If Turk was playing the 4 he would not be as effective either. If Rashard plays small forward and Turk plays the 4, I guarantee Rashard's numbers would be better. You can say he should "man the hell up" but in the end of the day Rashard Lewis IS a small forward. That is like saying Jameer should man the hell up and play shooting guard. That makes no sense. I am not trying to hate on Turk but your argument about him not rebounding is horrible b/c neither does Turk. I like Turk a lot but that is not going to change my opinion on this. I have always felt this way about Rashard.

richboy · Post #58 » by **richboy** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:37 pm

If your looking at there careers you haven't been watching much Sonic basketball. I said before we signed Rashard that Hedo was as good as Rashard. Rashard put up numbers on the Sonics because of the role that he was put in. Not because he is more talented than Hedo. Rashard was the Sonics primary post player. Although he does have a better post game than Hedo its not by leaps and bounds.

Hedo in the past was not used to his ability. The guy has always been a great passer and ballhandler at the SF position. However, he spent all his time just spotting up for jumpers and letting others do the ball handling. Turk career year was based on the fact that SVG finally put Hedo in position to showcase his talent.

Rashard does not post up because Dwight is the number 1 option in the post. I've said this a ton. Rashard has not always been guarded by PFs. Much of the year he was guarded by the teams best perimeter defender. Not until teams really started seeing that it was more important to slow Hedo down did you see PFs guarding Rashard. Yet when Rashard was being guarded by SF did you see him in the post. NOPE.

Rashard at SF is not as good a defender as Hedo as SF. When Rashard played with the Sonics at SF he consistently struggled because he has no laterial quickness. You get Rashard moving 1 direction and you have him beat. Hedo is not a great defender but at least on the perimeter its more difficult to get past him than it use to be to get past Rashard.

Rashard career has been overrated on this board. He had 1 year of 22 points per game. That year he barely played many games with Ray Allen and had a career high in shot attempts. The vast majority of Rashard career he has been 18 to 20 points per game. That is the best he has been as a number 2 option. Flip that and you see Hedo has spent much of his career as a third or 4th option in the offense. The second he gets a chance to be the number 2 guy he puts up almost the same scoring numbers as Rashard and much better all-around numbers. Rashard numbers are more like Hedo in the past. Only difference is Rashard plays a lot more than the past Hedo and he shoots the ball better.

Hedo and Rashard are a perfect example of how systems can effect a player. When they suddenly are on the same team you really can see who the better player is. That is why this team runs play after play for Hedo and Rashard just sits back on the perimeter. Hedo skill set is much higher

Rccanes2311 · Post #59 » by **Rccanes2311** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:04 pm

magicfanatic23 wrote:
Rccanes2311 wrote:
magicfanatic23 wrote:You may forget a big part of Rashard's game is playing in the post. However, since he is playing the 4 he can not post players up. When he played the 3 in Seattle, he posted up other small forwards all the time. He can do far more than just hit 3 pointers, it is just he doesn't really have the opportunity.

Then he needs to adapt. If he was as good as you think he is the whole pf excuse wouldn't matter. That guy is 6'10 and part of his game is posting up, but he's playing out of position when thats exactly the type of things a 6'10 person should be doing? Comon now the guy is 6'10 and can't rebound worth a crap which bothers me alot. It also bothers me that at this height people on here are NEEscreaming he's playing out of position HE DS TO MAN THE HELL UP THEN IF HE WAS SO TALENTED IT SHOUDNT BE A PROBLEM. He should be third fiddle the guy doesn't have to heart to be the number 1 and he doesn't versatility aprently to be anyones number 2 either so he should be 3rd fiddle on this team.

Hedo Turkoglu is also 6'10. You say he can't rebound worth a crap. Neither can Turk. If Turk was playing the 4 he would not be as effective either. If Rashard plays small forward and Turk plays the 4, I guarantee Rashard's numbers would be better. You can say he should "man the hell up" but in the end of the day Rashard Lewis IS a small forward. That is like saying Jameer should man the hell up and play shooting guard. That makes no sense. I am not trying to hate on Turk but your argument about him not rebounding is horrible b/c neither does Turk. I like Turk a lot but that is not going to change my opinion on this. I have always felt this way about Rashard.

Turk is a better rebounder than Lewis and has more skills than Lewis. Turk is the better player because he can do more while Lewis is limited thats the point I'm trying to make. Turk had some very good rebounding games this season and sometimes was Howard's only help on the boards. Turk can play point and play sf. Reshard can only play sf and Turk is a more skilled than him. You can read into the way you want but thats the point I'm trying to make here. Sure Turk can't play SF but he can do other things. What else can Lewis do besides launch threes and post up? Turk just brings more to the table.

mhectorgato · Post #60 » by **mhectorgato** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:42 pm

magicfanatic23 wrote:
Rccanes2311 wrote:
magicfanatic23 wrote:Then he needs to adapt. If he was as good as you think he is the whole pf excuse wouldn't matter. That guy is 6'10 and part of his game is posting up, but he's playing out of position when thats exactly the type of things a 6'10 person should be doing? Comon now the guy is 6'10 and can't rebound worth a crap which bothers me alot. It also bothers me that at this height people on here are NEEscreaming he's playing out of position HE DS TO MAN THE HELL UP THEN IF HE WAS SO TALENTED IT SHOUDNT BE A PROBLEM. He should be third fiddle the guy doesn't have to heart to be the number 1 and he doesn't versatility aprently to be anyones number 2 either so he should be 3rd fiddle on this team.

Hedo Turkoglu is also 6'10. You say he can't rebound worth a crap. Neither can Turk. If Turk was playing the 4 he would not be as effective either. If Rashard plays small forward and Turk plays the 4, I guarantee Rashard's numbers would be better. You can say he should "man the hell up" but in the end of the day Rashard Lewis IS a small forward. That is like saying Jameer should man the hell up and play shooting guard. That makes no sense. I am not trying to hate on Turk but your argument about him not rebounding is horrible b/c neither does Turk. I like Turk a lot but that is not going to change my opinion on this. I have always felt this way about Rashard.

Turk is a better rebounder than Lewis and has more skills than Lewis. Turk is the better player because he can do more while Lewis is limited thats the point I'm trying to make. Turk had some very good rebounding games this season and sometimes was Howard's only help on the boards. Turk can play point and play sf. Reshard can only play sf and Turk is a more skilled than him. You can read into the way you want but thats the point I'm trying to make here. Sure Turk can't play SF but he can do other things. What else can Lewis do besides launch threes and post up? Turk just brings more to the table.

Shard averaged .3 less rbg than Hedo - hardly the vast difference you are claiming.

5.4 vs 5.7

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