Magic involved in 3-way trade rumor???

[richboy]

I don't see us getting Lee and Barbosa for just Hedo and Redick. You can make a case that Barbosa is better than Hedo alone. David Lee a double double guy that plays backup minutes. Put him at PF and we may have the two best rebounders in the league.

We come out like champs in that and Phoenix looks horrible. Phoenix would definitely want first round picks from both New York and Orlando to do a deal like this.

Why do this if your the Knicks. You want Diaw so much you give up cap space to go after Lebron in 010. David Lee is cheap and better than Diaw. You add a ton of salary. I would think they would trade Lee for a young player on his rookie contract than another overspent contract.

[DMannOC]

I wonder if they would do the TPE and a 1st for D. Lee

[lovehoops01]

lovehoops01, are you comparing Hedo to Steve Nash? Also, do you remember who coached the Knicks last year?

Anyways, since you have such a flippant attitude towards my post I'll have to see if there are some stats to back up my statement, I'm thinking there will be... But for now it's off to bed.

What? I think you put one and one together there and got five. It was more comparing Barbosa to Hedo.

And if you want to ask if I remember who coached the Knicks last year, yes, I do. I also know who is going to coach the Knicks this year, and reports have been that Lee is not among his favorites among the Knicks.

As for the per stats....it's interesting that you said that formula works so you'll stick with it. Stats can work that way for a lot of things and sometimes don't tell the whole story. So we'll have to agree to disagree.

I do, however, think there is a good chance that the Suns could move Barbosa and Diaw, or at least one of them. There has been talk of trading both of them this summer, especially Barbosa. This is just my opinion, but I think that the Suns' new management team thinks that both of those guys worked in D'Antoni's system but won't necessarily work in a lot of other systems and that they both are getting paid more than what current Suns management thinks is their value. I say that based on the amount of trade talk involving them since D'Antoni left. I also think their stats might be inflated because of D'Antoni's offensive system. (Plus I look at more than the points scored.) I thought they didn't play as well after the Suns went to something other than a run-and-gun offense. And I thought Barbosa looked particularly disjointed at the end of last season.

Disrespect my opinion, if you like, because I don't "prove'' it with stats. But I look at more than stats when I look at players. I'm not saying I'm necessarily right. But I do have a right to my own opinion, don't I?

My point was....The main reason I think that people keep proposing these Turkoglu trade rumors is because he can opt out of his contract after this season and surely will -- and people think he will get offered more than the Magic can pay for a new contract. I concede this is a concern. However, people also are talking about trading a guy who played to close to an all-star level (and most think was snubbed for last year's game) and is versatile -- a good scorer, rebounder and a pretty good ball-handler who can help run the offense in return for BACKUPS who are primarily good at one skill or another.

Personally, I'd rather have the one quality player than the quantity of two players who are not at a starter's level of play. I think you win with quality players in the NBA, not with the team who can collect the most good backups. For the record, I think the Magic need to realize that, too, and make sure that they keep a full, talented roster instead of just trying to sign guys who fit under the luxury tax. And if they aren't willing to do that, then the Magic aren't going to win anyway. (I'm not saying they are cheap, but looking back at the past, I think if they had just agreed to re-sign Ben Wallace with the roster they had when they got Grant and Tracy, they could have saved themselves some rebuilding. They could have signed Grant outright instead of making the trade with Detroit and had Ben's Bird rights. That is one of those circumstances when I thought they pinched pennies at the wrong time. There are times in the development of your team when I think you just need to spend that money, and that was one of them.)

Note: One of the reasons the Knicks want to trade Lee is he is due a new contract. He is going to have to get paid, too. Note: Barbosa already has a pretty good-sized contract. And apparently the Suns don't think he should be the heir apparent to Nash and know that they can't afford to pay him as much as they are if they believe that. With Nash getting closer to the end of his career, they clearly are concerned about finding someone they can groom for that job and don't believe Barbosa is the guys now that D'Antoni is gone. So if he can't start for the Suns, who know much more about his game than we do, do you want him starting for the Magic? And if not, do you want to pay him that much to come off the bench? The combination of Lee's new contract and Barbosa's current salary surely would be at least equal to -- if not more than -- Turk's new contract will be.

And then the other argument is that the Magic paid Lewis all that money and moving Turk would allow Shard to play his natural position. Call me crazy, but I don't think that moving Lewis to his natural position means that his rebounding numbers suddenly would triple and his scoring would more than double and he suddenly would become great at helping facilitate the offense. Because that's pretty much what moving Hedo to let Shard play his natural position would mean you would need him to do. Not to mention the fact that it would take one more reliable scorer off the floor and would cut down on the number of players who open up the middle of the floor for Dwight.

Whew! Sorry for the length. I managed to find one topic where I could expound on a lot of my thoughts on the team's development over the years.

[djsunyc]

i would assume lee would be S&T'd since he's up for an extension this summer so his contract # right now might be moot.

if there's any legitimacy to this, it would be b/c the magic realize that shard + hedo are both SF's and they need a PF to play with dwight. this moves shard back to the 3, his natural position, and gives them a double rebounding pf that can compliment howard.

hedo's contract is up soon and will probably cost $50-60 mil to bring back. can't invest that much in two SF's.

[richboy]

lovehoops01, are you comparing Hedo to Steve Nash? Also, do you remember who coached the Knicks last year?

Anyways, since you have such a flippant attitude towards my post I'll have to see if there are some stats to back up my statement, I'm thinking there will be... But for now it's off to bed.

What? I think you put one and one together there and got five. It was more comparing Barbosa to Hedo.

And if you want to ask if I remember who coached the Knicks last year, yes, I do. I also know who is going to coach the Knicks this year, and reports have been that Lee is not among his favorites among the Knicks.

As for the per stats....it's interesting that you said that formula works so you'll stick with it. Stats can work that way for a lot of things and sometimes don't tell the whole story. So we'll have to agree to disagree.

I do, however, think there is a good chance that the Suns could move Barbosa and Diaw, or at least one of them. There has been talk of trading both of them this summer, especially Barbosa. This is just my opinion, but I think that the Suns' new management team thinks that both of those guys worked in D'Antoni's system but won't necessarily work in a lot of other systems and that they both are getting paid more than what current Suns management thinks is their value. I say that based on the amount of trade talk involving them since D'Antoni left. I also think their stats might be inflated because of D'Antoni's offensive system. (Plus I look at more than the points scored.) I thought they didn't play as well after the Suns went to something other than a run-and-gun offense. And I thought Barbosa looked particularly disjointed at the end of last season.

Disrespect my opinion, if you like, because I don't "prove'' it with stats. But I look at more than stats when I look at players. I'm not saying I'm necessarily right. But I do have a right to my own opinion, don't I?

My point was....The main reason I think that people keep proposing these Turkoglu trade rumors is because he can opt out of his contract after this season and surely will -- and people think he will get offered more than the Magic can pay for a new contract. I concede this is a concern. However, people also are talking about trading a guy who played to close to an all-star level (and most think was snubbed for last year's game) and is versatile -- a good scorer, rebounder and a pretty good ball-handler who can help run the offense in return for BACKUPS who are primarily good at one skill or another.

Personally, I'd rather have the one quality player than the quantity of two players who are not at a starter's level of play. I think you win with quality players in the NBA, not with the team who can collect the most good backups. For the record, I think the Magic need to realize that, too, and make sure that they keep a full, talented roster instead of just trying to sign guys who fit under the luxury tax. And if they aren't willing to do that, then the Magic aren't going to win anyway. (I'm not saying they are cheap, but looking back at the past, I think if they had just agreed to re-sign Ben Wallace with the roster they had when they got Grant and Tracy, they could have saved themselves some rebuilding. They could have signed Grant outright instead of making the trade with Detroit and had Ben's Bird rights. That is one of those circumstances when I thought they pinched pennies at the wrong time. There are times in the development of your team when I think you just need to spend that money, and that was one of them.)

Note: One of the reasons the Knicks want to trade Lee is he is due a new contract. He is going to have to get paid, too. Note: Barbosa already has a pretty good-sized contract. And apparently the Suns don't think he should be the heir apparent to Nash and know that they can't afford to pay him as much as they are if they believe that. With Nash getting closer to the end of his career, they clearly are concerned about finding someone they can groom for that job and don't believe Barbosa is the guys now that D'Antoni is gone. So if he can't start for the Suns, who know much more about his game than we do, do you want him starting for the Magic? And if not, do you want to pay him that much to come off the bench? The combination of Lee's new contract and Barbosa's current salary surely would be at least equal to -- if not more than -- Turk's new contract will be.

And then the other argument is that the Magic paid Lewis all that money and moving Turk would allow Shard to play his natural position. Call me crazy, but I don't think that moving Lewis to his natural position means that his rebounding numbers suddenly would triple and his scoring would more than double and he suddenly would become great at helping facilitate the offense. Because that's pretty much what moving Hedo to let Shard play his natural position would mean you would need him to do. Not to mention the fact that it would take one more reliable scorer off the floor and would cut down on the number of players who open up the middle of the floor for Dwight.

Whew! Sorry for the length. I managed to find one topic where I could expound on a lot of my thoughts on the team's development over the years.

How you figure Barbosa and Lee are not starting level players. That is like saying that Ginoboli isnt starting level. David Lee is easily a starting level NBA PF on any NBA roster. Barbosa is better than Jameer Nelson. Barbosa almost made the all-star team as well 2 years ago off the bench.I would not hesitate in making him the starter at PG. The only reason why Barbosa at PG in Phoenix doesn't work is because everyone is compared to Steve Nash. He can't do anything that Nash does as a passer. Its pretty much why every backup PG looks bad as a passer in there system. No one can run that offense like Nash. Compared to Nelson Barbosa can do everything and do most things better.

PER is a possession stat so it would not be inflated by tempo. The Suns and Magic only had 3 possession difference per game in tempo anyway. With a speedster like him on the roster we likely match Phoenix in possessions next year.

I agree with the premise of what your saying. I'm not trading Hedo for Francisco Garcia and Mikki Moore like I heard someone else suggest. You loose me when you say Barbosa and Lee are not worth Hedo. Those two are worth a lot more than Hedo. I would say if that trade was made we could expect

17 ppg 6 assist from Barbosa
13 ppg and 11 rpg from Lee

Also Mike D already came out and said he was fine with Lee and this is pretty much media speculation that he is the odd man out. If they trade Lee its likely because what they would get back. Not because of some need to trade David Lee.