One of the reasons for D12's offensive struggles?

[magicfan4life05]

Do you think it's possible some of his offensive struggles (ie post moves and development in low post game) and inability to demand the ball in the post comes from the fact that he was never featured as a #1 option on offense earlier like other past top big men have been?

For example, when he first game here, I specifically remember Johnny Davis saying "if he wants the ball, he knows where to go get it" and he pointed to the backboard.

Point being: they wanted him to rebound and defend only, worry about offense later

And with that current team and how it was constituted, (mobley, francis, hill and hedo) they had a point because they were better offensive players ahead of him.

Then finally last year he was the focal point on offense. I don't think until maybe last year he was considered the "first option" or "the man."

( I personally think if he was given the ball coming out as a rookie and produced efficiently, then during times like now this season, where he teammates were not getting it to him, he would have the ability to just DEMAND THE BALL and just point blank give it to me, because he's been so used to getting it as a young player and feels he's obligated to do so, which is what the team needs!)




Now contrast this with a guy like Al Jefferson who IMO is a better low post scorer although the offensive stats are very similar.

At a very young age, the celtics were tanking, and they just threw him the ball every time and he developed an amazing low post repertoire.

Listen I'm not saying Jefferson is better, but more offensively skilled and that's indisputable.





Now with Howard's commitments to USA Basketball and his lack of just regular summer time to improve his game (something SVG commented on this offseason), it just seems he doesn't have much time to improve his offensive game ie post moves, hook shots, jumper, face up game, stuff like that

So basically, does anyone think his struggles come from the fact that the magic did not go to him more on offense on a consistent basis earlier in his career?

Or do you think he would be performing the same way on offense regardless of how he was featured on offense as a rookie and the few years after that until now?




This just crossed my mind and wanted to get some thoughts what do you think?

agree/disagree, completely off, no clue what I'm talking about or does it have some merit?

[Optimus_Steel]

I dont think he is doing a good enough job of being available for the ball. Nor the team is doing a good job either of getting him the ball. He is also letting himself become really frustrated and he automatically shuts off, and thus the team follows suit.

[Neon1]

Al Jefferson ALWAYS HAD his offensive game. Dude averaged like 45ppg a game in HS for god sakes. He was always a better scorer and alaways will be most likely. Doesnt mean he is or will be better overall...but Dwight was light years behind him as an offensive player even then.

[magicfan4life05]

Al Jefferson ALWAYS HAD his offensive game. Dude averaged like 45ppg a game in HS for god sakes. He was always a better scorer and alaways will be most likely. Doesnt mean he is or will be better overall...but Dwight was light years behind him as an offensive player even then.

yeah, that's a GREAT point, I completely forgot about that which kinda debunks my argument.


I just think because the magic were not a "normal" lottery team when they drafted Howard ( I mean they weren't really that bad, they were a descent team) they didn't go to him as much as they could.

Usually on bad teams, the young players get the most shot attempts, they learn the game that way, while their team is bad...but because the magic were descent...I don't think he was really featured on offense.

You always heard the expression "yeah well, that guy puts up good stats on a bad team" well no one wants to admit it, but that's the best way young players can just, for a lack of a better word, just get better in the NBA.

[J-Mezzy]

Dwight needs a playmaker...Either a point guard or SG/SF. His game is not good enough to be able to maximize his skills with mediocre players dumping him the ball

[craig01]

Howard "waits" for the ball in the post instead of "getting" the ball by creating an angle and/or space.

That's the difference between an instinctive post player versus a serviceable one.

[eyriq]

Howard "waits" for the ball in the post instead of "getting" the ball by creating an angle and/or space.

That's the difference between an instinctive post player versus a serviceable one.

+1

I really think him getting the ball rests completely on his shoulders. Feeding the post shouldn't be such a low percentage option on the offensive end when you have such a beast on the block in Dwight.

Also, I think Dwight will be much better than Jefferson offensively, if he isn't already.

He tries to get the ball so deep that the distance of the feed allows players to react. He has to trust his game enough to know that he can score with more space between him and the basket. Do some of the catch, pass, catch stuff that Shaq was so good at, waiting for the defenders to eventually over commit and getting a high percentage shot on the perimeter or on the block, depending on where the overcommitment happened. That is something I'd love to see.

[Forest]

This is completely based off the way SVG runs this offense. It isn't easy to feed the post and it takes time to get someone the ball. Telling Rashard or Hedo to take a jumpshot or drive to the basket is much easier to do but not nearly as effective. People have to realize, everyone knows when you are trying to dump the ball into post and frankly it is fairly easy to defend. The rockets used to have loads of trouble with this and Yao Ming. You have to construct your entire offense around feeding Dwight Howard the ball in the post, and SVG or the players are not doing this. Sadly, until we do this the Magic will never be what I would call an actual contender. Hedo and Rashard can NOT be the main offensive weapons on this team. I think this rest on SVG, and if he doesn't make Dwight Howard the number one option on offense I hope the magic fire him. There is no excuse for Howard not to get 10+ shots every game.

[Jackattaq]

I've seen both Jefferson and Dwight play and I would in all honesty have to say that Dwight is lightyears behind Jefferson offensively. Big Al has a bevy of postup moves. He know how to get open and where to be to accept entry passes. He's very adept at using fakes, spin moves, hooks, faceup shots, running shots, he a deceptive dribbler for a bigman and he know how to get to the FT line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not fluffing Jefferson at the expense of Howard who is a BEAST. Howard OVERPOWERS players, but he doesn't have the finesse part of his game to make him unstoppable. If Dwight doesn't get within 8 feet of the hoop, he's not that effective. He needs DUNKS and BUNNIES to get him going. If he's 15 feet from the hoop with the ball, it's not likely to end well if he puts the ball on the floor. He's just not there as a #1 option offensively yet. He's still one hell of a player, but he's just not there offensively yet.

[eyriq]

I've seen both Jefferson and Dwight play and I would in all honesty have to say that Dwight is lightyears behind Jefferson offensively. Big Al has a bevy of postup moves. He know how to get open and where to be to accept entry passes. He's very adept at using fakes, spin moves, hooks, faceup shots, running shots, he a deceptive dribbler for a bigman and he know how to get to the FT line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not fluffing Jefferson at the expense of Howard who is a BEAST. Howard OVERPOWERS players, but he doesn't have the finesse part of his game to make him unstoppable. If Dwight doesn't get within 8 feet of the hoop, he's not that effective. He needs DUNKS and BUNNIES to get him going. If he's 15 feet from the hoop with the ball, it's not likely to end well if he puts the ball on the floor. He's just not there as a #1 option offensively yet. He's still one hell of a player, but he's just not there offensively yet.

The wrong thinking here is that Dwight is worse because he can be stopped. The only way he can be stopped is through double teams and hard fouls, that's it. I haven't see Jefferson play this year but I doubt he sees the intensity that Dwight faces. Dwight can't be stopped 1 on 1.

[Jackattaq]

I've seen both Jefferson and Dwight play and I would in all honesty have to say that Dwight is lightyears behind Jefferson offensively. Big Al has a bevy of postup moves. He know how to get open and where to be to accept entry passes. He's very adept at using fakes, spin moves, hooks, faceup shots, running shots, he a deceptive dribbler for a bigman and he know how to get to the FT line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not fluffing Jefferson at the expense of Howard who is a BEAST. Howard OVERPOWERS players, but he doesn't have the finesse part of his game to make him unstoppable. If Dwight doesn't get within 8 feet of the hoop, he's not that effective. He needs DUNKS and BUNNIES to get him going. If he's 15 feet from the hoop with the ball, it's not likely to end well if he puts the ball on the floor. He's just not there as a #1 option offensively yet. He's still one hell of a player, but he's just not there offensively yet.

The wrong thinking here is that Dwight is worse because he can be stopped. The only way he can be stopped is through double teams and hard fouls, that's it. I haven't see Jefferson play this year but I doubt he sees the intensity that Dwight faces. Dwight can't be stopped 1 on 1.

If you keep him OUTSIDE of 15 feet from the Hoop, Dwight isn't all that effective. Sure, teams throw a lot of double teams at Howard and that's because he's shown he can't handle them all that well. He has shown flashes, but he's also been VERY TURNOVER PRONE. During the playoffs last year, the Pistons played Dwight straightup with Sheed at times, Maxielle at times, McDyess at times and even Ratliff. Dwight has to be able to do more than just catch lobs and dunk the ball. He's not that good at backing down his man to improve his position or at facing up and using the jumper as a threat to dribble by his man.

You are right, if he gets the ball inside, he's a BEAST, but he can't do that with teams confusing him AND confusing his teammates that are trying to feed him the ball in the post. IMO, a guy like Jefferson who can catch the ball from 18 feet, face up, use the dribble to beat his man or improve his position in the post is much more effective because he's not reliant on his perimeter player to get him the ball in a position as close to the hoop.

[magicmamma]

Dwight's problem is that he didn't go to college. In college, he would have been a totally dominating player from the start. This would allow his coaches to work on his whole game. After two years of college, he would have been a very skilled player. In the NBA, all of his coaching was centered on making him useful as quickly as possible. And that meant letting his offensive moves wait. For the first three years Dwight was in the NBA, every time a fan asked the coach or GM about getting a FT coach for Dwight was met with the response that there were other things he had to learn first. Even last year they were just "working on it." This is the first year that doing something about his FT has been considered important. Meanwhile his shooting has deteriorated from what it was in HS.

[Bensational]

Dwight's problem is that he didn't go to college. In college, he would have been a totally dominating player from the start. This would allow his coaches to work on his whole game. After two years of college, he would have been a very skilled player. In the NBA, all of his coaching was centered on making him useful as quickly as possible. And that meant letting his offensive moves wait. For the first three years Dwight was in the NBA, every time a fan asked the coach or GM about getting a FT coach for Dwight was met with the response that there were other things he had to learn first. Even last year they were just "working on it." This is the first year that doing something about his FT has been considered important. Meanwhile his shooting has deteriorated from what it was in HS.

yeah, this goes back to what magicfan4life05 said. the organisation have forced Dwight to do the dirty work - the rebounding, anchoring defense, getting second chance points - but haven't seemed as inclined to push his development on the offensive end. which is why they've surrounded him with other players who have enough fire power so as to not have to rely on him, and hence SVG is relying on them and their 3's, perhaps a little too heavily.

i'd like to see more plays where Dwight can actually take a few jump shots in a game. heck, i'd like to see Dwight practice every facet of his offense in a game. we've got nothing to lose but a few games, and everything to gain from Dwight becoming a complete player.

he's still young. and he's shown improvement year in and year out. hopefully this year it shows with polish in the post. the dude needs to study some Duncan tapes.

[MitchellUK]

Howard "waits" for the ball in the post instead of "getting" the ball by creating an angle and/or space.

That's the difference between an instinctive post player versus a serviceable one.

+2

I lost count of the number of turnovers (attributed to the likes of Hedo, Meer, Carlos and Keyon) committed by Orlando when Dwight gets in front of his defender, only to fail to seal him off - the second the pass is made, defender steps around Howard to knock the ball away as it arrives. This is one of the problems with Dwight's game that I am shocked has not been properly remedied at this point.

[j-ragg]

I scratch my head at our offense sometimes. We run so many dam pick and rolls in a row like we're the Suns. I just want him to post up and to give him the ball.

[Big A All Day]

Dwight Howard... 29 points 14 rebounds

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