Denton: D12, LEWIS UPSET ABOUT OFFENSIVE MELTDOWN IN LOSS

[spinedoc]

Hedo was never used as this point forward, so it is unfair to fault him for other teams misusing him. Clearly Shard, Dwight, and Hedo all make each other better, but the idea that Hedo is some bench bum being carried by Shard and Dwight is comical.

Hedo was always predicted to be this kind of player, he finally got the chance.

That's not what I'm trying to say at all. I am saying that if you take talent away from Hedo, he regresses a lot harder than Dwight or Shard, i.e, see A. Iguodala. I also believe Hedo stunts Shard to an extent, to go along with playing out of position. So why go out and get another sf when you have no intention of demoting the one you have? I'd be saying the same thing if we went out and got Billups and put him at sg just because we had a need there, and we wanted to keep Jameer. Sure, I would have been very happy that we got him, like Shard, but upset that we aren't using him right. That's all I'm trying to say. Hey it worked well with the Thunder, but I have my doubts how far it will take us.

[Cammo101]

Hedo was never used as this point forward, so it is unfair to fault him for other teams misusing him. Clearly Shard, Dwight, and Hedo all make each other better, but the idea that Hedo is some bench bum being carried by Shard and Dwight is comical.

Hedo was always predicted to be this kind of player, he finally got the chance.

That's not what I'm trying to say at all. I am saying that if you take talent away from Hedo, he regresses a lot harder than Dwight or Shard, i.e, see A. Iguodala. I also believe Hedo stunts Shard to an extent, to go along with playing out of position. So why go out and get another sf when you have no intention of demoting the one you have? I'd be saying the same thing if we went out and got Billups and put him at sg just because we had a need there, and we wanted to keep Jameer. Sure, I would have been very happy that we got him, like Shard, but upset that we aren't using him right. That's all I'm trying to say. Hey it worked well with the Thunder, but I have my doubts how far it will take us.

While I pretty much agree with everything you are saying here, you are changing history to try to make your point. Orlando had no idea Hedo was going to flourish like this under SVG, he was a happy surprise. Sure, they thought it was possible, but they would not have signed Shard had they known Hedo would become a star.

Hedo may hurt Shard's production some, but that is a small lose considering how much he helps us in the half court. Without him we would have no playmaker in the half court. I am fine with Shard playing a supporting role on a winning team.

If we had a more dynamic point guard with the distribution ability to dominate the ball in the half court, I would say we should trade Hedo for Brad Miller and call it a day. But, the fact of the matter is Hedo is simply too important to replace on this team. He is the glue guy.

[spinedoc]

While I pretty much agree with everything you are saying here, you are changing history to try to make your point. Orlando had no idea Hedo was going to flourish like this under SVG, he was a happy surprise. Sure, they thought it was possible, but they would not have signed Shard had they known Hedo would become a star.

Hedo may hurt Shard's production some, but that is a small lose considering how much he helps us in the half court. Without him we would have no playmaker in the half court. I am fine with Shard playing a supporting role on a winning team.

If we had a more dynamic point guard with the distribution ability to dominate the ball in the half court, I would say we should trade Hedo for Brad Miller and call it a day. But, the fact of the matter is Hedo is simply too important to replace on this team. He is the glue guy.

This is where we disagree I think. I don't believe that it helps us that much in the half court when we aren't posting up Shard or getting the ball to Dwight in the second half. It helps us in the open court running in transition, but I see our half court game suffering actually. Not enough low post scoring, especially when we need it the most. That's why I want a real pf, so we can provide some help to Dwight throughout the long season on the low block, and get some more rebounds and blocked/altered shots. If by trading Hedo, it shows that Jameer isn't up to the job, then we will cross that bridge then if need be. Again, we need to focus much less on what benefits Hedo the most and re-focus on our top two money guys. It doesn't take a 6-10 sf running around the floor to get into your half court set. Feed the post and take advantage of the mismatches and double teams as they come. We have enough guys who can penetrate and drive to the hole. I'd like to eventually become what the Spurs were when they had Duncan and Robinson. And you never saw them move Duncan to center after Robinson left just because, say Horry could play the four spot and Duncan was capable of playing center, did you? No, they went and got another center instead, why? Its not much different to me in this circumstance by moving Shard to pf because Hedo can start at sf. What is that doing to Dwight and a guy that we are paying 20+ million a year, and shouldn't we care about that as much or more?

[lovehoops01]

Well, this thread pretty much runs the gamut and someone or another rips every starter. Who needs opponents' fans?

Anyway, I'll add my 2 cents as long as we're at it. I don't pretend to know what the problem is, but I do have a couple observations now that I have seen a few games live and I was wondering if anyone else noticed these things.

The Blazers hit everything they put up in that game. They missed at least half of those same shots against the Heat, and they were wide open against Miami.

The Magic could not get Dwight the ball as much in the second half against the Blazers because every time they moved to pass him the ball, he would get surrounded by three or four Blazers -- at least two big guys to body up Dwight and at least one little guy to try to strip the ball. That made it difficult to get him the ball and for him to get rid of it at the basket or by passing it out if they were able to get it to him. They just would foul him, and he'd go to the free-throw line. You might not think they are deep at the big spots, but they had Aldridge (who almost never got called for a foul), and Przybilla, and Outlaw and Batum were long enough to create problems. Plus, Roy and Fernandez were the guys who worked at poking away the ball. Hedo tried to fill the gap scoring wise.

Having Rashard wanting to get into the post only makes that problem worse because there are more guys in the paint if he and his defender are there, too. And often Pietrus....which brings me to my next point....

Pietrus has been pretty effective offensively when he can stay on the floor, but even though he is more athletic, I wonder if his offensive game is kind of similar to both Rashard and Hedo and so the team now has three players who can play basically the same (except that Hedo can be a playmaker, too). Otis knows what he likes, but he might have too much of it. Think about it....he is the only change to the starting lineup. This is not his fault but maybe exacerbates the situation with Rashard and Hedo. Unfortunately, neither he nor Rashard are as effective at handling the ball as Hedo is most of the time. The starters didn't have much trouble last season, though the bench had trouble scoring a lot of times last season, too. The only thing different was Keyon was much more athletic and active than A.J.

In the game against the Blazers (and not any of the others), I thought Rashard took himself totally out of the game. On almost every play in the second half at least, he wasn't even looking to score. He'd pass the ball almost as soon as he touched it, and I actually saw him wave off one of his teammates once when he was going to pass Rashard the ball. He did not want the ball in that game. The media noticed it too and asked Stan after the game what was up with Rashard. Stan covered for him, saying something like he is an outstanding player who just couldn't seem to get into a rhythm (which might be true and why he didn't want the ball, but it was really noticeable).

The Blazers and Hawks are similar -- two very young teams that are very active and very deep (plus Roy was getting Dwyane Wade calls in that game). The Magic have trouble with that kind of team. Those teams can keep up with the Magic's fast break. Even with the addition of Pietrus, they don't seem to be athletic enough to take on those teams, or they run out of gas because the Magic's starters play so many minutes while the other teams split minutes with two different lineups. For much of the time that the Magic could not score, A.J. was running the point, not Jameer. I believe A.J. had zero points, maybe one assist and zero rebounds against Portland. It was almost the same situation against the Bulls, too, but the Magic managed to hold them off. But the bulk of the gap was closed while A.J. was playing point.

(Oh, and speaking of Denton, what's up with his stories this week? Does he want Stephen A. Smith's job? Team must have pissed him off.)

[Cammo101]

While I pretty much agree with everything you are saying here, you are changing history to try to make your point. Orlando had no idea Hedo was going to flourish like this under SVG, he was a happy surprise. Sure, they thought it was possible, but they would not have signed Shard had they known Hedo would become a star.

Hedo may hurt Shard's production some, but that is a small lose considering how much he helps us in the half court. Without him we would have no playmaker in the half court. I am fine with Shard playing a supporting role on a winning team.

If we had a more dynamic point guard with the distribution ability to dominate the ball in the half court, I would say we should trade Hedo for Brad Miller and call it a day. But, the fact of the matter is Hedo is simply too important to replace on this team. He is the glue guy.

This is where we disagree I think. I don't believe that it helps us that much in the half court when we aren't posting up Shard or getting the ball to Dwight in the second half. It helps us in the open court running in transition, but I see our half court game suffering actually. Not enough low post scoring, especially when we need it the most. That's why I want a real pf, so we can provide some help to Dwight throughout the long season on the low block, and get some more rebounds and blocked/altered shots. If by trading Hedo, it shows that Jameer isn't up to the job, then we will cross that bridge then if need be. Again, we need to focus much less on what benefits Hedo the most and re-focus on our top two money guys. It doesn't take a 6-10 sf running around the floor to get into your half court set. Feed the post and take advantage of the mismatches and double teams as they come. We have enough guys who can penetrate and drive to the hole. I'd like to eventually become what the Spurs were when they had Duncan and Robinson. And you never saw them move Duncan to center after Robinson left just because, say Horry could play the four spot and Duncan was capable of playing center, did you? No, they went and got another center instead, why? Its not much different to me in this circumstance by moving Shard to pf because Hedo can start at sf. What is that doing to Dwight and a guy that we are paying 20+ million a year, and shouldn't we care about that as much or more?

If you watched this team last season and in last years playoff run and you do not see Hedo as an indispensible member of our half court offense, then I do not know what to say. Or what team you have been watching.

Your idea that it is a big mystery what will happen to Jameer if Hedo is traded for a non-playmaker is kind of like the big mystery of what JJ Redick the rotation player will look like. It is the kind of mystery most people already know the answer to.

And believe me, there is no bridge to cross because there are no poing guard replacements to find. All available point guard will have the same or worse issues and we will be picking in the 20's with no money in fre agency. So if you trade Hedo for Brad Miller and Jameer's inadiquacy kills our offense, then you are stuck with that problem for the forseeable future. Sounds like taking a huge risk for no reason.

As far as Hedo hurting Dwight, that is nuts. Hedo helps Dwight more than anyone. It is Hedo who is our best post passer and it is Hedo who gets him tons of easy baskets off the pick and roll which will be nonexistant if he leaves.

[whocares]

Well, this thread pretty much runs the gamut and someone or another rips every starter. Who needs opponents' fans?

Anyway, I'll add my 2 cents as long as we're at it. I don't pretend to know what the problem is, but I do have a couple observations now that I have seen a few games live and I was wondering if anyone else noticed these things.

The Blazers hit everything they put up in that game. They missed at least half of those same shots against the Heat, and they were wide open against Miami.

The Magic could not get Dwight the ball as much in the second half against the Blazers because every time they moved to pass him the ball, he would get surrounded by three or four Blazers -- at least two big guys to body up Dwight and at least one little guy to try to strip the ball. That made it difficult to get him the ball and for him to get rid of it at the basket or by passing it out if they were able to get it to him. They just would foul him, and he'd go to the free-throw line. You might not think they are deep at the big spots, but they had Aldridge (who almost never got called for a foul), and Przybilla, and Outlaw and Batum were long enough to create problems. Plus, Roy and Fernandez were the guys who worked at poking away the ball. Hedo tried to fill the gap scoring wise.

Having Rashard wanting to get into the post only makes that problem worse because there are more guys in the paint if he and his defender are there, too. And often Pietrus....which brings me to my next point....

Pietrus has been pretty effective offensively when he can stay on the floor, but even though he is more athletic, I wonder if his offensive game is kind of similar to both Rashard and Hedo and so the team now has three players who can play basically the same (except that Hedo can be a playmaker, too). Otis knows what he likes, but he might have too much of it. Think about it....he is the only change to the starting lineup. This is not his fault but maybe exacerbates the situation with Rashard and Hedo. Unfortunately, neither he nor Rashard are as effective at handling the ball as Hedo is most of the time. The starters didn't have much trouble last season, though the bench had trouble scoring a lot of times last season, too. The only thing different was Keyon was much more athletic and active than A.J.

In the game against the Blazers (and not any of the others), I thought Rashard took himself totally out of the game. On almost every play in the second half at least, he wasn't even looking to score. He'd pass the ball almost as soon as he touched it, and I actually saw him wave off one of his teammates once when he was going to pass Rashard the ball. He did not want the ball in that game. The media noticed it too and asked Stan after the game what was up with Rashard. Stan covered for him, saying something like he is an outstanding player who just couldn't seem to get into a rhythm (which might be true and why he didn't want the ball, but it was really noticeable).

The Blazers and Hawks are similar -- two very young teams that are very active and very deep (plus Roy was getting Dwyane Wade calls in that game). The Magic have trouble with that kind of team. Those teams can keep up with the Magic's fast break. Even with the addition of Pietrus, they don't seem to be athletic enough to take on those teams, or they run out of gas because the Magic's starters play so many minutes while the other teams split minutes with two different lineups. For much of the time that the Magic could not score, A.J. was running the point, not Jameer. I believe A.J. had zero points, maybe one assist and zero rebounds against Portland. It was almost the same situation against the Bulls, too, but the Magic managed to hold them off. But the bulk of the gap was closed while A.J. was playing point.

(Oh, and speaking of Denton, what's up with his stories this week? Does he want Stephen A. Smith's job? Team must have pissed him off.)

1. good post.
2. like water in desert.