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Hedo out with the flu!!

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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#21 » by drsd » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:07 pm

A news on the wires? I cannot find any.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#22 » by taruky1 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:18 pm

spinedoc wrote:
taruky1 wrote:You've heard wrong. Influenza is a virus that mutates rapidly, so there are constantly new strains emerging to which we are not resistant. That is why you have to get a flu shot yearly, because not only does your immunity from the prior year's shot wane, but new strains show up each year. So anyone can basically get flu twice a year every year for the rest of their lives.


True, you can get the flu multiple times because it does mutate so much, but you don't have to get the flu shot imo. Like you said, the virus mutates rapidly, so the flu shot only covers a selected few strains anyway. But the main reason to not get the shot is, because it gives you the flu, lol, as well as man made preservatives. If you have a normal, fully functioning immune system, its best to just gain your resistance by regular exposure with the virus. If you keep a strong resistance, you don't have to worry about creating antigens to combat the virus more effectively. Now if your elderly and have a hampered immune system, that's a different story. I'm also a firm believer of not giving it to kids btw. Hedo sounds like he's got some sort of retrovirus or an immune system problem. The body should be growing strong enough to protect against repeated exposures even if it is a different strain. These are professional athletes with a fine tuned regimen, not sickly people.


Ummm, you can say "you don't need to get the flu shot" because perhaps you don't have to face the consequences of an unimmunized 9 month old or severe asthmatic dying from flu. If you want we can have a private discussion about this some time, but I think the evidence is quite to the contrary of what you said.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#23 » by spinedoc » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:44 pm

Yeah, its off topic, but you would be surprised of the information that is out there about this subject. You never had to deal with a perfectly healthy baby dying of SIDS either, so don't judge too quickly. If your interested, you can look up a book by Loe Fisher. She lost a child shortly after it's immunizations. It's pretty eye opening stuff.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#24 » by taruky1 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:30 pm

spinedoc wrote:Yeah, its off topic, but you would be surprised of the information that is out there about this subject. You never had to deal with a perfectly healthy baby dying of SIDS either, so don't judge too quickly. If your interested, you can look up a book by Loe Fisher. She lost a child shortly after it's immunizations. It's pretty eye opening stuff.

I'm a pediatric emergency medicine physician, I have had to deal with SIDS plenty. SIDS occurs in the first year of life, you get vaccines on 4-5 different occassions in the first year of life. So statistically speaking there is a good chance SIDS might occur near a vaccine even if the vaccine had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, people have forgotten how many babies died from the diseases vaccines prevent. Vaccines have worked so well that nobody understands the degree of morbidity and mortality these diseaes produced because we don't suffer from them anymore. For every Loe Fisher story you have I have a story of a mother who lost her child to a preventable illness and is furious with those who advised her against vaccines.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#25 » by spinedoc » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:24 pm

taruky1 wrote:I'm a pediatric emergency medicine physician, I have had to deal with SIDS plenty. SIDS occurs in the first year of life, you get vaccines on 4-5 different occassions in the first year of life. So statistically speaking there is a good chance SIDS might occur near a vaccine even if the vaccine had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, people have forgotten how many babies died from the diseases vaccines prevent. Vaccines have worked so well that nobody understands the degree of morbidity and mortality these diseaes produced because we don't suffer from them anymore. For every Loe Fisher story you have I have a story of a mother who lost her child to a preventable illness and is furious with those who advised her against vaccines.


Interesting, but I have a much different viewpoint on this subject. And I'm not advocating what others should do, just stating my own point of view. Its a personal choice, and information should be presented from both sides, so they can make the most informed one for them. However, you really think that immunizations and SIDS rate is purely incidental? Japan changed their DPT schedule to the age of two years of age and the SIDS rate nearly disappeared. No offense, but it sounds like your a little too close to the tree to see the forest. We have different educational backgrounds on this one. We should just agree to disagree, and not hijack the thread any further. :wink:
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#26 » by taruky1 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:54 am

spinedoc wrote:
taruky1 wrote:I'm a pediatric emergency medicine physician, I have had to deal with SIDS plenty. SIDS occurs in the first year of life, you get vaccines on 4-5 different occassions in the first year of life. So statistically speaking there is a good chance SIDS might occur near a vaccine even if the vaccine had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, people have forgotten how many babies died from the diseases vaccines prevent. Vaccines have worked so well that nobody understands the degree of morbidity and mortality these diseaes produced because we don't suffer from them anymore. For every Loe Fisher story you have I have a story of a mother who lost her child to a preventable illness and is furious with those who advised her against vaccines.


Interesting, but I have a much different viewpoint on this subject. And I'm not advocating what others should do, just stating my own point of view. Its a personal choice, and information should be presented from both sides, so they can make the most informed one for them. However, you really think that immunizations and SIDS rate is purely incidental? Japan changed their DPT schedule to the age of two years of age and the SIDS rate nearly disappeared. No offense, but it sounds like your a little too close to the tree to see the forest. We have different educational backgrounds on this one. We should just agree to disagree, and not hijack the thread any further. :wink:


I was pretty shocked to read your comment about DPT in Japan, because you would see a deadly Pertussis epidemic and neonates dropping like flies. I looked it up on the internet and could not find anything corroborating that, but I did find this from 2004;
http://idsc.nih.go.jp/yosoku/vacpdf/EN_04.pdf
The vaccine schedule change you referred to was apparently in 1975, and the Japanese government in fact says the SIDS rates increased, not decreased. Furthermore there were an additional 49 cases of Pertussis related deaths, not to mention babies requiring intubation and intensive care. They no longer have that policy it seems.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#27 » by spinedoc » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:29 am

I have no idea what that link was Taruky. Honestly, I learned that in college. I will do some looking around for you, but I don't remember the source. However, Its the combination of the three together that is the real problem with that. When I was immunized as a child, we had them separately and staged farther apart, and not such a toxic dose all at once. Also, its the Pertussis part that is the real harsh one of the three. It is made with a formaldehyde base and it can be very toxic. I'm not sure if I would wait until the child has a strong enough immune system to handle it or not, but I certainly wouldn't give it to a little baby. If they say not to get an immunization when your pregnant, then why is it ok for an infant? I'm not going to give my child any serum from a diseased monkey, or chemicals like formaldehyde, sorry. There is a bunch of information out there on SIDS and shots, but also their link to autism as well. Here is a link to miss Fisher's website. https://www.nvic.org/Diseases/whooping.htm. I also got that wrong about her child dying of SIDS. He is autistic, and the symptoms started right after his DPT shot. We are giving too many chemicals to our children Taruky, its not a healthy thing. I'm not against the science behind immunizations per se, just the dogmatic use of them.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#28 » by TheRevTy » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:59 am

Have they made a Turkaflu vaccination yet?

If not, this whole discussion is as valuable as a cow's opinion.

Ok, seriously, interesting stuff, keep on going.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#29 » by spinedoc » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:18 am

TheRevTy wrote:Have they made a Turkaflu vaccination yet?

If not, this whole discussion is as valuable as a cow's opinion.

Ok, seriously, interesting stuff, keep on going.


No, we've taken this off topic enough. Its a whirlwind of a topic though, that's why I tried to avoid it. Seriously, I think Hedo has some sort of an autoimmune problem, or they just aren't being honest with us. Hopefully he isn't back to his old ways, we need him healthy.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#30 » by taruky1 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:38 am

TheRevTy wrote:Have they made a Turkaflu vaccination yet?

If not, this whole discussion is as valuable as a cow's opinion.

Ok, seriously, interesting stuff, keep on going.

:lol: I think people are making too big a deal out of this particular bug Hedo has now. It was pretty obvious against Indiana the poor guy looked like a zombie, but I'm sure it will pass. I am ill about 3 or 4 times every winter, so I don't think it's too big a deal (although Hedo might not have kids drooling on his scrubs and coughing in his face like I do, lol).

Spinedoc, you're a chiropractor, am I remembering right? My sister is an ER resident in Philly and just recently went to a chiropractor because of severe pain in her lateral chest wall. The doc she saw said she has super tight intercostal muscles somehow overlapping her ribs and wound or twisted somewhat like a rubber band. She gave my sister the kneading from hell, apparently, but says the muscles need to be worked a few more times. You familiar with this type of pain? SHe's in absolute misery and has to work 12 hour shifts to boot. I think she should see a pulmonologist as well to make sure this isn't something pulmonary like a PE (she had a normal chest x-ray).
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#31 » by drsd » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:31 am

Both FL Today and the O-Sen report that Hedo will play tonight.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#32 » by lapassione » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:27 pm

drsd wrote:Both FL Today and the O-Sen report that Hedo will play tonight.

thank god, our offense didnt know what direction to go towards the end of the Rockets game
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#33 » by aleZ » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:52 pm

^^ Glad to hear that, the Turkoflu sent an entire season to hell not too long ago :)
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#34 » by spinedoc » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:37 pm

taruky1 wrote:Spinedoc, you're a chiropractor, am I remembering right? My sister is an ER resident in Philly and just recently went to a chiropractor because of severe pain in her lateral chest wall. The doc she saw said she has super tight intercostal muscles somehow overlapping her ribs and wound or twisted somewhat like a rubber band. She gave my sister the kneading from hell, apparently, but says the muscles need to be worked a few more times. You familiar with this type of pain? SHe's in absolute misery and has to work 12 hour shifts to boot. I think she should see a pulmonologist as well to make sure this isn't something pulmonary like a PE (she had a normal chest x-ray).


Yeah Taruky, both my wife and I are DC's. We see this kind of thing all the time. The history is the most important aspect here. Questions like, was there a mechanism of injury, or was it of unknown etiology? If she has been pulling, reaching, or twisting, it could have pulled her ribs out of place. I'd have the Chiro check the rib angles which usually have a superior misalignment, as well as, posterior and anterior rib misalignments. The ribs can actually pull out at both the costo-sternal and costo-chondral attachments. Both need to be adjusted. Is she a smoker, or has been vomiting, or coughing a lot. All of these can put stress on the ribs. If there was blunt force trauma, but obviously there was no fracture if the x-rays were negative. Not much you can do even if they were however. Also, make sure the doc she is seeing addresses and adjusts extremities. Some just relate everything back to the spine, and that isn't looking at the whole picture. The shoulder girdle on that side needs to be checked out. The shoulder blade can go both medially or laterally, causing stress on the ribs, or lateral chest wall. The GH joint can misalign in four different directions, and check the AC joint as well. Pleurisy also needs to be ruled out, but surely she should be able to find someone where she works that knows how to use a stethoscope. I also incorporate massage with something like this. They do a much better job on the soft tissue as I work on the hard tissue. As far as seeing a lung doctor, there is usually other symptoms accompanied with a problem of that sort. Anyway, hope this helps. If you have any other questions, just let me know. :wink:
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#35 » by drsd » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:50 pm

With Bogans out, Turkoglu needs to get his health completely back, for a long time.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#36 » by taruky1 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:10 pm

spinedoc wrote:
taruky1 wrote:Spinedoc, you're a chiropractor, am I remembering right? My sister is an ER resident in Philly and just recently went to a chiropractor because of severe pain in her lateral chest wall. The doc she saw said she has super tight intercostal muscles somehow overlapping her ribs and wound or twisted somewhat like a rubber band. She gave my sister the kneading from hell, apparently, but says the muscles need to be worked a few more times. You familiar with this type of pain? SHe's in absolute misery and has to work 12 hour shifts to boot. I think she should see a pulmonologist as well to make sure this isn't something pulmonary like a PE (she had a normal chest x-ray).


Yeah Taruky, both my wife and I are DC's. We see this kind of thing all the time. The history is the most important aspect here. Questions like, was there a mechanism of injury, or was it an unknown etiology? If she has been pulling, reaching, or twisting, it could have pulled her ribs out of place. I'd have the Chiro check the rib angles which usually have a superior misalignment, as well as, posterior and anterior rib misalignments. The ribs can actually pull out at both the costo-sternal and costo-chondral attachments. Both need to be adjusted. Is she a smoker, or has been vomiting, or coughing a lot. All of these can put stress on the ribs. If there was blunt force trauma, but obviously there was no fracture if the x-rays were negative. Not much you can do even if they were however. Also, make sure the doc she is seeing addresses and adjusts extremities. Some just relate everything back to the spine, and that isn't looking at the whole picture. The shoulder girdle on that side needs to be checked out. The shoulder blade can go both medially or laterally, causing stress on the ribs, or lateral chest wall. The GH joint can misalign in four different directions, and check the AC joint as well. Pleurisy also needs to be ruled out, but surely she should be able to find someone where she works that knows how to use a stethoscope. I also incorporate massage with something like this. They do a much better job on the soft tissue as I work on the hard tissue. As far as seeing a lung doctor, there is usually other symptoms accompanied with a problem of that sort. Anyway, hope this helps. If you have any other questions, just let me know. :wink:


Yeah I doubt it's a PE, she has no risk factors (no smoking, OC pills, family history, etc,), no DVT symptoms. no tachycardia, nothing suggestive. She has had no significant recent cough. I asked her if the pain felt pleuritic, and she couldn't really give specifics such as pain change with positions or inspiration. She was joking that she's now exactly like the patients who piss her off with poor history giving. Sometimes something aggravates it, other times it does not. She has a history of one shoulder being a little higher than the other, and says many years ago a chiropractor she was seeing for something else told her she would one day have related problems. She also used to play flute a lot. Sometimes viral illnesses can cause something like this; coxsackie virus can cause something called pleurodynia which causes waxing and waning alteral chest wall pain often associated with fever. I see this from time to time in the ER.

So you're saying a massage therapist massage would supplement the massage the chiropractor does? I'll mention that to her.

When you talk about glenohumeral joint misalignment, are you talking subluxation or something more subtle. We pretty much deal with the extremes (ant/post dislocations, etc.) in the ER, so my knowledge of the subtleties is not so good.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#37 » by spinedoc » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:26 pm

Yeah taruky, the GH can subluxate, not talking about a total luxation. It can misalign anterior and inferior, or posterior and inferior, as well as internal rotation, and external rotation. I check all of that including the SC and AC joints. They can also cause secondary issues like she is having. But, the DC isn't really doing a decent job of working out that muscle. He's probably doing a little Rolfing or trigger point work, but a massage therapist can give it a lot more attention. A simple tens unit can help that muscle release too. Just make sure she isn't going to some rack'm and crack'm guy who just addresses the spine. She really needs some extremity work as well. Working with patients who are essentially dead weight put a lot of stress on you, because your often in such awkward positions. I see a lot of nurses and health care pros due to that. Good luck. If you get more info, run it by me if you want.
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Re: Hedo out with the flu!! 

Post#38 » by taruky1 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:34 pm

spinedoc wrote:Yeah taruky, the GH can subluxate, not talking about a total luxation. It can misalign anterior and inferior, or posterior and inferior, as well as internal rotation, and external rotation. I check all of that including the SC and AC joints. They can also cause secondary issues like she is having. But, the DC isn't really doing a decent job of working out that muscle. He's probably doing a little Rolfing or trigger point work, but a massage therapist can give it a lot more attention. A simple tens unit can help that muscle release too. Just make sure she isn't going to some rack'm and crack'm guy who just addresses the spine. She really needs some extremity work as well. Working with patients who are essentially dead weight put a lot of stress on you, because your often in such awkward positions. I see a lot of nurses and health care pros due to that. Good luck. If you get more info, run it by me if you want.


Thanks, appreciate it.

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