Doug Collins Hired

[bebopdeluxe]

HartfordWhalers:

Eddie Jordan was a "high stature hire"?

Are you kidding me?

He had a career .434 winning percentage...he was fired after starting the 2008-09 season 1-and-10...he has never won more than 45 games in a season with the Wizards, despite having TWO guys on both the 2007 and 2008 All-Star Game rosters (note: when you have 3 All-Stars on your roster, it would be nice to win a playoff series).

The day he was fired by the Wiz, it was only a matter of time before Stefanski was going to hire him (Kate Fagan's article in today's Inquirer basically confirms that)...if you think Jordan was a "high stature hire", then let's see if any of the other guys that would be "high stature hires" (Collins, Johnson, JVG) talk money ANYWHERE NEAR what the Sixers gave Jordan - a 3-year deal where the Wiz actually paid a big chunk of the first year.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one, bro.

I would have been fine with Laimbeer. But to suggest that Collins is some kind of washed-out retread is a JOKE to me. He's had 3 NBA gigs. In each one, the team improved by double-digits in his first year. And while you may not think the time he spend on TV matters much, I think it does...in three ways:

1) He has been working/studying/scouting most of the teams and players in the NBA for the past 7 years...his knowledge of who is good at what (and who is bad at what) is probably as good as any advance scout or GM in the league, because he has to become intimately aware of such a large subset of the players in the league for his TV gig;

2) Because he has been on TV for the past 7 years, the young players in this league all grew up watching him break down games, and in their eyes he probably has as much - if not more - credibility to these guys than a Tom Thibodeau or Elston Turner (why do you think an old-school "retread" like Hubie Brown had such success with a young team like the Grizz buying it to what he was selling?). They KNOW Doug Collins - and they don't have to go back into the US Olympic team or NBA All-Star Team historical rosters to figure it out;

3) Collins was enshrined in the NBA Hall of Fame as a broadcaster...and the reason why he was given that award is because he both has the knowledge of the game as well as the ABILITY to COMMUNICATE that knowledge to millions of NBA fans. He can take complicated concepts relating to players, teams and strategies and make them both easy to understand for casual-to-serious NBA fans as well as interesting in their delivery.

Think that skill will come in handy in trying to teach Dalembert or Speights proper-pick-and-roll defensive technique? Huh?

[HartfordWhalers]

Yea, sorry to make you go off tilt.

At the time Eddie Jordan was a vet coach that had taken his team to a winning record and the playoffs 4 years in a row. And a very bad hire.

Compare that with the other 09 hires:

Detroit: Kuester (Assistant signed for 2 years)
{Memhis if you want to count it: Extend interim Hollins for 3 years}
Minnesota: Rambis (Assistant signed 4 years 2 per season)
{OKC if you want to count it: Extended interim Brooks for 2 years}
Phil: Eddie Jordan 3 years, 3 million per year after Wash pays year 1.
Phoenix: Gentry (Assistant signed 2 years, did head coach back in the late 90's)
Sac: Westphal (2 years 1.5 per out some head coaching 9 years before at the time)
{Tor if you want to count it: Extended interim Triano 3 years}
Wash: Saunders (Signed 4 years)

Now, ignore your distaste for the last season and look at that list and tell me where Eddie Jordan ranked as high profile?

I would put it:

Behind:
Saunders, Rambis (maybe debatable here)

Ahead of:
Kuester, Gentry, Westphal. And before they became interim coaches, ahead of Brooks, Triano and Hollins.

[bebopdeluxe]

So...umm...how does that 1-and-10 start with the Wiz in 2008-09 factor into your "he took his team to the playoffs 4 years in a row" thesis?

And if you want to get into contract semantics, the Sixers in essence signed him to a net-2-year deal, since the majority of his first year was paid by the Wiz. That is chump change when you compare it to what the Wiz gave Flip or the Sixers just gave to Collins.

Rambis got more money out of the Wolves than the Sixers gave Jordan, for crissakes.

Whatever.

You don't like the Collins signing? That's cool. I do - and I explained in great detail why. Rather than continuing this "it depends on what your definition of IS is" argument about whether or not Jordan was a "high stature hire", here's a question: do you think that the Sixers could have signed Collins for what they signed Jordan for last summer? And if Jordan was a "high stature hire", then why did he get so little additional $$$ (over and above what the Wiz paid him for this past season)?

[HartfordWhalers]

So...umm...how does that 1-and-10 start with the Wiz in 2008-09 factor into your "he took his team to the playoffs 4 years in a row" thesis?

And if you want to get into contract semantics, the Sixers in essence signed him to a net-2-year deal, since the majority of his first year was paid by the Wiz. That is chump change when you compare it to what the Wiz gave Flip or the Sixers just gave to Collins.

Rambis got more money out of the Wolves than the Sixers gave Jordan, for crissakes.

Whatever.

You don't like the Collins signing? That's cool. I do - and I explained in great detail why. Rather than continuing this "it depends on what your definition of IS is" argument about whether or not Jordan was a "high stature hire", here's a question: do you think that the Sixers could have signed Collins for what they signed Jordan for last summer? And if Jordan was a "high stature hire", then why did he get so little additional $$$ (over and above what the Wiz paid him for this past season)?

You start the debate about stature of Eddie Jordan then dismiss it as an "it depends on what your definition of IS is" argument when your wrong?
3 million per year was more than every coach on that list but Saunders, and we decided to pay him an extra increase above his last contract for last season but that isn't enough still? And actually, in 3 years Eddie Jordan was paid more than Rambis in 4, although as I noted Washington paid some of that.
Still, your right, he didn't make the playoffs after being fired 11 games into a season. I thought that was obvious.

And to your question: Yes. I think if we weren't desperate to lock down Collins and look in good shape, if we conducted second interviews and looked interested in any other candidate, I think we could have had Collins in a 3 year deal. But Stefanski needed this.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Eddie Jordan is NOT a high profile head coach. He will NEVER be hired for an NBA JOB again, he will likely never be hired for a legitimate coaching job again. If he ever gets back into NBA/Coaching, it will purely be as an assistant. But this guy's so clueless, would he even qualify as an assistant?

[bebopdeluxe]

OK. I give up.

You said that Jordan had coached his team to the playoffs 4 straight years...but he didn't.

In today's NBA, if you are a "high stature coach"...a coach who has the kind of resume that you say Jordan has, then you don't get a 3-year deal...period.

The only other guy with a "high stature" resume who got a job last summer was Flip Saunders, who - as you noted - got a 4 year deal. The prior summer, there were SEVERAL "high stature" guys who were hired...

Larry Brown - 4 years, $24 million by the Bobcats

Mike D'Antoni - 4 years, $24 million by the Knicks

Rick Carlisle - 4 years, $16 million by the Mavs

Scott Skiles - 4 years, $18 million by the Bucks

(look at that last one...Skiles - who hasn't won JACK - got 4/18 from the freakin BUCKS...)

By comparison, what the Sixers gave Jordan last summer was a JOKE (especailly when you factor in the 1-year subsidy from the Wiz). But you just keep on arguing that he was a "high stature" coaching hire...OK?

The bottom line, IMO, is Stefanski pitched Jordan as a guy with a resume as a former NBA head coach who they could get on the cheap...and Comcast agreed. That is why Collins (or any other legit HC option) was not even contacted last summer...Comcast was not giving Stefanski the money to go after a guy like Collins and JVG...because they were still paying Cheeks. They knew what the going rate was (I just gave you the 4 data points from the '08-09 summer), and you can be sure that the agents for Collins, JVG, Johnson...all of them...were going to push for 4 year deals for in excess of $4 mil per year as the starting point for discussions...and there was NO WAY that Comcast was going to write that check while still paying Cheeks...which is why we got your "high stature" coach in Jordan for chump change.

Well...in this case...we got what we paid for - didn't we?

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

I feel like we got a high stature coaching hire THIS year. Everytime I read/hear Collins and what he thinks about the game of basketball, I have confidence in what we got.

[PhilasFinest]

Enough with the Eddie Jordan talk people!

It's gonna give me nightmares.

[Coach Clyde]

I remember cracking up when I fired up NBA 2K10 when it came out and checked out the Sixers roster only to see our fancy new coach being rated as a "C."

With a C for offense, a D for defense and a C for teaching.

That must be their "high stature" default rating.

[bebopdeluxe]

I remember cracking up when I fired up NBA 2K10 when it came out and checked out the Sixers roster only to see our fancy new coach being rated as a "C."

With a C for offense, a D for defense and a C for teaching.

That must be their "high stature" default rating.

Well played, sir.

[cedric76]

what will be doug s impact on thad?

[Foshan]

what will be doug s impact on thad?

If we keep Thad, I think his D definitely steps it up a lvl. and i think he sees continued time at the 4

I really think LWill and or Thad is going to be moved, now that we have another good ball handler in Turner.

[ankle420breaker]

Everyone tuning in to Doug's press introduction today at noon?

[HartfordWhalers]

Scott Skiles - 4 years, $18 million by the Bucks

(look at that last one...Skiles - who hasn't won JACK - got 4/18 from the freakin BUCKS...)

This is oversimplified, but:
Doug Collins: 332 - 287 53.6%, playoffs 15 - 23
Skiles (at that time): 281- 251 52.8%, playoffs 15 - 20

I wouldn't separate Skiles from Collins based on coaching. If you want to based on superior announcing, go right ahead.

[PhilasFinest]

I think skiles is a pretty damn good coach.

What he did with that Milwaukee team this year was excellent and despite boguts play and the arrival of Jennings, that team bought into skiles' defensive approach and really improved cause of it.

[SJSF]

Any coach that doesn't coach defense isn't a good coach. Period. Look around league and take a look. The best defensive teams are the teams that win the most. I am hoping COllins can make this team play hard defense first, like Brown did.

[bebopdeluxe]

Scott Skiles - 4 years, $18 million by the Bucks

(look at that last one...Skiles - who hasn't won JACK - got 4/18 from the freakin BUCKS...)

This is oversimplified, but:
Doug Collins: 332 - 287 53.6%, playoffs 15 - 23
Skiles (at that time): 281- 251 52.8%, playoffs 15 - 20

I wouldn't separate Skiles from Collins based on coaching. If you want to based on superior announcing, go right ahead.

Ummm...redirect much?

Those statistics had NOTHING to do with a Skiles versus Collins comparison (for the record, I think that Skiles is a solid coach...and LIGHT-YEARS ahead Jordan)...they were to refute your assertion that Jordan was a "high-status" hire - even though the contract that he received was a JOKE relative to what TRUE "high status" coaches are paid in the NBA these days.

I'm not sure if you are intentionally ignoring vast parts of our debate consciously (simply choosing to do things like this silly Skiles vs. Collins redirect), or if you don't even understand why people are calling you out on the assertion that Jordan was a "high status" hire. All I know is that I have run oout of runway with you in this thread.

Peace.

[sixerfan1976]

Collins will be a sleepy dude today..took a red eye to philly at the end of the laker-sun game.

Look forward to his presser.

[SJSF]

he will be wired like he usually is. That guy is a type A all the way.

[HartfordWhalers]

Fine, I will respond to your inane, incorrect, and stupid comments:

You said that Jordan had coached his team to the playoffs 4 straight years...but he didn't.

You sure? Cause the 04, 05, 06 and 07 Wiz made the playoffs.

By comparison, what the Sixers gave Jordan last summer was a JOKE (especailly when you factor in the 1-year subsidy from the Wiz). But you just keep on arguing that he was a "high stature" coaching hire...OK?

The bottom line, IMO, is Stefanski pitched Jordan as a guy with a resume as a former NBA head coach who they could get on the cheap...and Comcast agreed.

An all caps JOKE and yet 6 of the 7 teams that hired that summer paid less? (If this is true, Stefanski should be fired, because that is an awful failure). Sure its not LB money (or D'antoni or Carlisle), but we didn't hire Jordan because he was cheap. We hired him because we thought he was the best coach, and a proven successful coach. It was an incredibly, incredible bad hire, but it wasn't a cheap hire.

That is why Collins (or any other legit HC option) was not even contacted last summer...Comcast was not giving Stefanski the money to go after a guy like Collins and JVG...

The coaching resume of JVG and Collins aren't similar. The coaching resume of LB and Collins isn't similar.
If you understood me saying it was a high stature hire with a great hire or an upper echelon coach hire, sorry for making you go nutty. But as I previously noted, compare it with the other hires that year: EJ had more name recognition and success than what, 6 of 7? You want to call it mid-stature, cause its definitely not up there with LB or D' Antoni, I'm fine with that.

because they were still paying Cheeks.

And now we have 2 more years of paying for Eddie Jordan.

And in 3 years we will be paying for Collins if history is any indication.

Can you really not see the pattern?

Now we are paying 3 million a year to Eddie Jordan we hire Collins, who hasn't coached in seven years but we agree to pay for more years than he has ever coached before.

Washington has done more posturing that they will pick Turner over Wall than we did that we would hire anyone over Collins. We skipped second interviews for a 4 year contract? Anyone remember feeling annoyed that the Sixers had targeted Eddie Jordan fro day 1 last summer? It is the same pattern.