Andrew Wiggins is the Sixers' top target

[Sixerscan]

Iguodala averaged 4.3 assists/40 as a freshman (6.1 as a soph) compared to Wiggins' 1.9. Iggy wasn't a scorer in college, but was a much better ball handler and playmaker than Wiggins and showed clear point-forward potential. To say he had no offensive game is wrong. He was also a much better defensive prospect. Just a lazy comparison all-around. Wiggins looks like a more athletic Luol Deng IMO.

I'm not comparing them as prospects. I'm comparing one aspect of their abilities, scoring.

(Deng played PF at Duke so that's a weird comparison too btw if you're really getting picky)

Look at most of the top scorers. Except pretty much James (giving him the benefit of the doubt )Durant and Anthony, most of them scored at around Wiggins' level or worse as freshmen. Some guys (BEASLEY) scored at better levels then never amounted to anything. Because your abilities at 19 don't determine your abilities at 25. They set a floor, and Wiggins' floor is actually pretty good one.

I'm just saying don't act like he had a bad year and is all potential. He made first team all big 12 and could very well make an all american team. He's a very very good basketball player today.

[freshie2]

Things are turning our way if obtaining Wiggins is a bad thing.

[Bling76]

Iguodala averaged 4.3 assists/40 as a freshman (6.1 as a soph) compared to Wiggins' 1.9. Iggy wasn't a scorer in college, but was a much better ball handler and playmaker than Wiggins and showed clear point-forward potential. To say he had no offensive game is wrong. He was also a much better defensive prospect. Just a lazy comparison all-around. Wiggins looks like a more athletic Luol Deng IMO.

I'm not comparing them as prospects. I'm comparing one aspect of their abilities, scoring.

(Deng played PF at Duke so that's a weird comparison too btw if you're really getting picky)

Look at most of the top scorers. Except pretty much James (giving him the benefit of the doubt )Durant and Anthony, most of them scored at around Wiggins' level or worse as freshmen. Some guys (BEASLEY) scored at better levels then never amounted to anything. Because your abilities at 19 don't determine your abilities at 25. They set a floor, and Wiggins' floor is actually pretty good one.

I'm just saying don't act like he had a bad year and is all potential. He made first team all big 12 and could very well make an all american team. He's a very very good basketball player today.

Oh he definitely had a good year. Underwhelming at times, a revelation at others, but overall very good. Like you said, all-Big 12 as a freshman and so on. Wiggins has a head start on Iggy as a shooter and scorer, but I think with Iggy there was reason to be optimistic about his offensive potential because of his unique playmaking ability on a freakish athletic body.

[42uptop]

Anyway, Wiggins (17.1) averaged almost 3 times as many points as Iguodala (6.4) did his freshman year so it's not the best comparison. Much like Iguodala went from someone with no offensive game to someone who had 4 straight years over 17 PPG at average efficiency, look for Wiggins to go from being an already good offensive player to elite in the next 5 years.

Iguodala played only 19 minutes per game his freshman year and was never expected to carry the load offensively. Most of the reason Iguodala improved was due to an increase in minutes and an increase in responsibility. Wiggins has started every game since day 1 and has had the green light to do what he wants. And the notion that Iguodala improved so Wiggins is going to become elite makes no sense at all

What are you talking about? Wiggins had the green light to do what he wants at Kansas this year? Do you just go from thread to thread to bash Wiggins? He didn't have free reign to do anything he wanted at Kansas. If he wanted to shoot 20 times a game he could've went somewhere else. Self has a system where star players don't dominate the ball. Same as Duke, NC, etc.

Now Durant at Texas was another story. He had the keys to the car there and could shoot as much as he wanted his frosh year.

Could you please stop quoting me in every draft thread? This had nothing to do with "bashing" Wiggins in the first place

[42uptop]

I haven't seen many people say Wiggins had a bad year at Kansas. He had a great year. But it still stands that, in the big picture, comparing him to Iguodala and then trying to draw conclusions from it doesn't make any sense. You wouldn't say "Wesley Johnson never developed so Wiggins won't develop either."

But if Wiggins does become the player that Iguodala was from 07-10, he is going to be an incredibly useful NBA starter. Maybe a let down to those who think he's the next T-Mac, but a prime Iguodala was a terrific player and that should not be an insult

[FreesFro]

Iguodala played only 19 minutes per game his freshman year and was never expected to carry the load offensively. Most of the reason Iguodala improved was due to an increase in minutes and an increase in responsibility. Wiggins has started every game since day 1 and has had the green light to do what he wants. And the notion that Iguodala improved so Wiggins is going to become elite makes no sense at all

What are you talking about? Wiggins had the green light to do what he wants at Kansas this year? Do you just go from thread to thread to bash Wiggins? He didn't have free reign to do anything he wanted at Kansas. If he wanted to shoot 20 times a game he could've went somewhere else. Self has a system where star players don't dominate the ball. Same as Duke, NC, etc.

Now Durant at Texas was another story. He had the keys to the car there and could shoot as much as he wanted his frosh year.

Could you please stop quoting me in every draft thread? This had nothing to do with "bashing" Wiggins in the first place

Too funny. Stop quoting me! Waaah.

If you're going to say something that makes no sense at all and is not true such as "Wiggins had the green light to do what he wants" then I will freely quote it.

Maybe keep your poorly constructed thoughts to yourself if you don't want to have a discussion on a message board. Or you can just ignore my posts. Its that simple.

You stop saying things that aren't true and I'll stop quoting you.

[LloydFree]

but kansas doesnt play a fast break style at all and basically made him into a jump shooter

you clearly didnt watch many games

Sure did. But I know better than to argue with you over prospects.

how is it anything to do with prospects? we are talking about the kind of offense kansas plays

you are literally the first person ive seen anywhere say Kansas played to Wiggins strengths this season

Here we go again. Who cares what you've read. I don't even agree with Negrodamus, but at least he argues the point based on what he has seen in the offense and offers a counterpoint. If you believe Self didnt use Wiggins properly, then say what he should have done with the offense.

[Sixerscan]

I haven't seen many people say Wiggins had a bad year at Kansas. He had a great year. But it still stands that, in the big picture, comparing him to Iguodala and then trying to draw conclusions from it doesn't make any sense. You wouldn't say "Wesley Johnson never developed so Wiggins won't develop either."

But if Wiggins does become the player that Iguodala was from 07-10, he is going to be an incredibly useful NBA starter. Maybe a let down to those who think he's the next T-Mac, but a prime Iguodala was a terrific player and that should not be an insult

I think I was unclear.

I didn't say Iguodala improved so Wiggins will improve. I said, like Iguodala, I expect Wiggins to improve. Not so much because of anything to do with Iguodala specifically, as much as I expect 19 year olds in general to improve at basketball as the years go on. Wesley Johnson for example went from a decent college player at 19 to a first team all american at 22. Sure, some players don't follow this trajectory, but a lot of those guys have to do with injury, body type, work ethic or have games that just don't translate to the NBA very well.

The three of those I can see (health, body type, game) I think Wiggins grades out excellently. I can't see his work ethic, trust Hinkie and BB to assess that.

[BobThornton]

I haven't seen many people say Wiggins had a bad year at Kansas. He had a great year. But it still stands that, in the big picture, comparing him to Iguodala and then trying to draw conclusions from it doesn't make any sense. You wouldn't say "Wesley Johnson never developed so Wiggins won't develop either."

But if Wiggins does become the player that Iguodala was from 07-10, he is going to be an incredibly useful NBA starter. Maybe a let down to those who think he's the next T-Mac, but a prime Iguodala was a terrific player and that should not be an insult

I think I was unclear.

I didn't say Iguodala improved so Wiggins will improve. I said, like Iguodala, I expect Wiggins to improve. Not so much because of anything to do with Iguodala specifically, as much as I expect 19 year olds in general to improve at basketball as the years go on. Wesley Johnson for example went from a decent college player at 19 to a first team all american at 22. Sure, some players don't follow this trajectory, but a lot of those guys have to do with injury, body type, work ethic or have games that just don't translate to the NBA very well.

The issue is the Sixers tanked this whole GD season in the hopes that they could land a difference maker. The disappointment from many isn't us saying, "Wiggins will never be a good pro." It's "We tanked for a bunch of guys who aren't going to be Jordan, Durant, Lebron, Rose, etc." Of course it is possible that one of them turn into your Franchise Superstar. But all of them have significant holes in their game, right now. We picked the wrong year to tank. Will probably have to do it again next year.

[sixers23]

Sure did. But I know better than to argue with you over prospects.

how is it anything to do with prospects? we are talking about the kind of offense kansas plays

you are literally the first person ive seen anywhere say Kansas played to Wiggins strengths this season

Here we go again. Who cares what you've read. I don't even agree with Negrodamus, but at least he argues the point based on what he has seen in the offense and offers a counterpoint. If you believe Self didnt use Wiggins properly, then say what he should have done with the offense.

I already have and so have a ton of others on this board throughout the year. They run their offense through the post and kick out for jump shots. They do not get out and run. They have the paint clogged up constantly and run wiggins from wing to wing and relegate him to a jump shooter. He would of been much better off had he picked North Carolina where he could of played a style more suited to his talents and more nba like in terms of spacing

[Sixerscan]

I haven't seen many people say Wiggins had a bad year at Kansas. He had a great year. But it still stands that, in the big picture, comparing him to Iguodala and then trying to draw conclusions from it doesn't make any sense. You wouldn't say "Wesley Johnson never developed so Wiggins won't develop either."

But if Wiggins does become the player that Iguodala was from 07-10, he is going to be an incredibly useful NBA starter. Maybe a let down to those who think he's the next T-Mac, but a prime Iguodala was a terrific player and that should not be an insult

I think I was unclear.

I didn't say Iguodala improved so Wiggins will improve. I said, like Iguodala, I expect Wiggins to improve. Not so much because of anything to do with Iguodala specifically, as much as I expect 19 year olds in general to improve at basketball as the years go on. Wesley Johnson for example went from a decent college player at 19 to a first team all american at 22. Sure, some players don't follow this trajectory, but a lot of those guys have to do with injury, body type, work ethic or have games that just don't translate to the NBA very well.

The issue is the Sixers tanked this whole GD season in the hopes that they could land a difference maker. The disappointment from many isn't us saying, "Wiggins will never be a good pro." It's "We tanked for a bunch of guys who aren't going to be Jordan, Durant, Lebron, Rose, etc." Of course it is possible that one of them turn into your Franchise Superstar. But all of them have significant holes in their game, right now. We picked the wrong year to tank. Will probably have to do it again next year.

Well expecting that level of certainty is I think where the problem lies. I think it's revisionist history to say that some of those guys were considered locks to be elite players. Like Rose did not exactly dominate college basketball either, in a nonmajor conference no less. In fact, he had a pretty similar resume to what I expect Wiggins to have (All Conference USA, 3rd team All American)

Durant dominated, but people had serious concerns about his strength and what position he would play. And anyway, even though he ended up being a great player, the Thunder still tanked the following year.

It's one of the negatives of drafting 19 year olds, there's much more uncertainty. Who knows what the rap on Jordan would have been if he were drafted at 19.

[Sixerscan]

And the reason why we tanked has as much to do with our team's situation as the draft class. After the Bynum trade took all of our assets, we really had no alternative. It's not like we blew up a 50 win team or something. Even if this draft pick isn't an elite player, we're still in a much better position with that pick, the Pels pick, MCW, Noel, Thad, all that cap space than with Jrue, Thad, Turner, Hawes, 2013 draft pick other than MCW, 2014 pick around 10, less cap space.

I do still think that this is a great year to tank because we have great odds to pick up a blue chip prospect. This isn't like 2012 where it was Davis and then nothing to get excited about. There are 4 people in this draft that likely would have gone ahead of MKG in 2012, maybe 5 if Randle has a great tournament.

[Negrodamus]

Sure did. But I know better than to argue with you over prospects.

how is it anything to do with prospects? we are talking about the kind of offense kansas plays

you are literally the first person ive seen anywhere say Kansas played to Wiggins strengths this season

Here we go again. Who cares what you've read. I don't even agree with Negrodamus, but at least he argues the point based on what he has seen in the offense and offers a counterpoint. If you believe Self didnt use Wiggins properly, then say what he should have done with the offense.

Much like in the other thread, he ignored me when I asked for these "sources". I'm just not going to argue with him any more. Baseless statements are the platform in which he stands on in most arguments.

[LloydFree]

Here we go again. Who cares what you've read. I don't even agree with Negrodamus, but at least he argues the point based on what he has seen in the offense and offers a counterpoint. If you believe Self didnt use Wiggins properly, then say what he should have done with the offense.

I already have and so have a ton of others on this board throughout the year. They run their offense through the post and kick out for jump shots. They do not get out and run. They have the paint clogged up constantly and run wiggins from wing to wing and relegate him to a jump shooter. He would of been much better off had he picked North Carolina where he could of played a style more suited to his talents and more nba like in terms of spacing

I agree with your point to a certain extent. Self didnt design an offense to make Wiggins look good. But disagree that Self hurt Wiggins' developement in any way. You are right, that if Wiggins wanted to look good, he should have gone to a different school, that likes to presses, and Fastbreaks off turnovers. But that wouldnt have necessarily helped Wiggins develop as a basketball player. Wiggins improved many of the area that were weaknesses of his game, during the year. Whos to say that he would have improved those areas if he went to a school that let him run up and down the court.
Its not the college coach's job to tailor his offense around a one-and-done player. It's the coaches job to win games, and help the players improve. And its the players job to select a school that will either make him look good, or help him improve his game.

[sixers23]

how is it anything to do with prospects? we are talking about the kind of offense kansas plays

you are literally the first person ive seen anywhere say Kansas played to Wiggins strengths this season

Here we go again. Who cares what you've read. I don't even agree with Negrodamus, but at least he argues the point based on what he has seen in the offense and offers a counterpoint. If you believe Self didnt use Wiggins properly, then say what he should have done with the offense.

Much like in the other thread, he ignored me when I asked for these "sources". I'm just not going to argue with him any more. Baseless statements are the platform in which he stands on in most arguments.

What sources can someone have on this subject lmao open your eyes and watch the games I'm sorry if it's hard for you guys to understand basketball

[sixers23]

Here we go again. Who cares what you've read. I don't even agree with Negrodamus, but at least he argues the point based on what he has seen in the offense and offers a counterpoint. If you believe Self didnt use Wiggins properly, then say what he should have done with the offense.

I already have and so have a ton of others on this board throughout the year. They run their offense through the post and kick out for jump shots. They do not get out and run. They have the paint clogged up constantly and run wiggins from wing to wing and relegate him to a jump shooter. He would of been much better off had he picked North Carolina where he could of played a style more suited to his talents and more nba like in terms of spacing

I agree with your point to a certain extent. Self didnt design an offense to make Wiggins look good. But disagree that Self hurt Wiggins' developement in any way. You are right, that if Wiggins wanted to look good, he should have gone to a different school, that likes to presses, and Fastbreaks off turnovers. But that wouldnt have necessarily helped Wiggins develop as a basketball player. Wiggins improved many of the area that were weaknesses of his game, during the year. Whos to say that he would have improved those areas if he went to a school that let him run up and down the court.
Its not the college coach's job to tailor his offense around a one-and-done player. It's the coaches job to win games, and help the players improve. And its the players job to select a school that will either make him look good, or help him improve his game.

That's all fine my point is he will look much different in an nba system especially one like the sixers

[Negrodamus]

Here we go again. Who cares what you've read. I don't even agree with Negrodamus, but at least he argues the point based on what he has seen in the offense and offers a counterpoint. If you believe Self didnt use Wiggins properly, then say what he should have done with the offense.

Much like in the other thread, he ignored me when I asked for these "sources". I'm just not going to argue with him any more. Baseless statements are the platform in which he stands on in most arguments.

What sources can someone have on this subject lmao open your eyes and watch the games I'm sorry if it's hard for you guys to understand basketball

Reading comprehension. I'm referring to the draft "experts" you subscribe to that unanimously have Kyle Anderson out of the top 20 prospects, "lmao".

In terms of Wiggins being played to his strengths, which is still true, you must not be reading enough about him. Self implores Wiggins to be more aggressive in demanding the ball, but he's not going to be the PG for this team because that's not his ability at the moment. He's a slasher/spot up shooter. They are giving him every opportunity to be that. He's done an OK job of it. He's allowed to gamble on steals and blocks.

But to say I'm "literally" the only one saying that is completely wrong.

[76ciology]

Here's my take on Self's negative impact on Wiggins' game..

First off, I must admit that I don't have that much background on Self's system. But I believe Self is a logical coach who will do what's best for his team. For instance, if he is coaching the Thunders, he will not revolve his offense around Ibaka and let it hurt Westbrook and Durant's game. Simply said, I trust Self to be smart enough to maximize the talent of his team in order to give his team the best chance in winning.

WIth that said, I believe Self saw Embiid as a more dominant offensive player than Wiggins. I don't know if it's because Wiggins' being a year younger was such a factor in comparing both Embiid and Wiggins' offensive development. But I truly believe Self saw Embiid as a more dominant offensive player, thus he revolved his offense around Embiid for the entire season.

I think this case strengthens during Embiid's absence. Wiggins was able to average 28ppg in that stretch. That means Self is not stubborn enough to choose "system" over "talent." He gave Wiggins the chance to showcase his offensive talent. He was impressive. But in that last game against Stanford, it just shows why Self didn't revolved the offense around Wiggins instead of Embiid.

It's because Embiid is the much better offensive player right now. Embiid suits the "alpha" role better than Wiggins right now. Because when you are able to take away Wiggins' length and athleticism by matching him up by similar long and athletic defender or by having a great defensive scheme against him, he will falter. And right now, I would blame it to his rawness in terms of offensive skill, lack of elite perimeter shooting and the lack of dominant strength all are prerequisites to be a dominant perimeter scorer that ables you to score at will.

[FlightBrothers]

Here's my take on Self's negative impact on Wiggins' game..

First off, I must admit that I don't have that much background on Self's system. But I believe Self is a logical coach who will do what's best for his team. For instance, if he is coaching the Thunders, he will not revolve his offense around Ibaka and let it hurt Westbrook and Durant's game. Simply said, I trust Self to be smart enough to maximize the talent of his team in order to give his team the best chance in winning.

WIth that said, I believe Self saw Embiid as a more dominant offensive player than Wiggins. I don't know if it's because Wiggins' being a year younger was such a factor in comparing both Embiid and Wiggins' offensive development. But I truly believe Self saw Embiid as a more dominant offensive player, thus he revolved his offense around Embiid for the entire season.

I think this case strengthens during Embiid's absence. Wiggins was able to average 28ppg in that stretch. That means Self is not stubborn enough to choose "system" over "talent." He gave Wiggins the chance to showcase his offensive talent. He was impressive. But in that last game against Stanford, it just shows why Self didn't revolved the offense around Wiggins instead of Embiid.

It's because Embiid is the much better offensive player right now. Embiid suits the "alpha" role better than Wiggins right now. Because when you are able to take away Wiggins' length and athleticism by matching him up by similar long and athletic defender or by having a great defensive scheme against him, he will falter. And right now, I would blame it to his rawness in terms of offensive skill, lack of elite perimeter shooting and the lack of dominant strength both are prerequisites to be a dominant perimeter scorer to score at will.

I could not agree more with this post. I think we sometimes forget Embiid was on the team and was an extremely dynamic, efficent and impactful palyer for them....

This draft to me is all about Wiggins and Embiid...If we get one of those 2 I will be ecstatic....

[sixers23]

Here's my take on Self's negative impact on Wiggins' game..

First off, I must admit that I don't have that much background on Self's system. But I believe Self is a logical coach who will do what's best for his team. For instance, if he is coaching the Thunders, he will not revolve his offense around Ibaka and let it hurt Westbrook and Durant's game. Simply said, I trust Self to be smart enough to maximize the talent of his team in order to give his team the best chance in winning.

WIth that said, I believe Self saw Embiid as a more dominant offensive player than Wiggins. I don't know if it's because Wiggins' being a year younger was such a factor in comparing both Embiid and Wiggins' offensive development. But I truly believe Self saw Embiid as a more dominant offensive player, thus he revolved his offense around Embiid for the entire season.

I think this case strengthens during Embiid's absence. Wiggins was able to average 28ppg in that stretch. That means Self is not stubborn enough to choose "system" over "talent." He gave Wiggins the chance to showcase his offensive talent. He was impressive. But in that last game against Stanford, it just shows why Self didn't revolved the offense around Wiggins instead of Embiid.

It's because Embiid is the much better offensive player right now. Embiid suits the "alpha" role better than Wiggins right now. Because when you are able to take away Wiggins' length and athleticism by matching him up by similar long and athletic defender or by having a great defensive scheme against him, he will falter. And right now, I would blame it to his rawness in terms of offensive skill, lack of elite perimeter shooting and the lack of dominant strength both are prerequisites to be a dominant perimeter scorer to score at will.

again nothing wrong with doing what you feel is best for your team although i do think he could of done a better job playing to wiggins strengths but that doesnt mean it was best for showcasing wiggins

in any college system tho wiggins wouldnt have done as well as in the nba it is just a different game and wiggins is much more suited to the nba than the college game