Will Hinkie go for Butler?

[MRxBLACK]

You could also structure the max with a player option for year 3. So if Butler signs it and the Bulls match, he would be a UFA after two seasons. Same thing with Leonard.

[Unbreakable99]

Yeah. Hinkie needs to get creative. I want him in a Sixers uniform next year. If Hinkie doesn't even go after him I will be disappointed in him.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Umm no butler dude will be like 26 next year. Why would we fetch a bunch of money out to a guy who isn't a major star . The only guy if we decide to spend money on free agents should be Kwahi Leonard who will be 24 and already prove a winner at the highest level. However both of these are less likely to happen anyways.

[Att]

I don't have much doubt that Hinkie likes Butler as a player. He's very similar in attitude and style of play to the wings he chose lately in the draft. The real question here is whether Hinkie wants to tank another year or not. If he wants to get better quickly, he'll try to go for him (Embiid, Noel, Butler, KJ, MCW is a nice 5 to put on the floor to develop together + that 2015 pick). If he wants to suck as much as possible and progress slowly, he will stay put (or make a minor move). I have a feeling Hinkie wants to prolong our bottoming, to get another high pick. Also, there's the question of Butler's abilities against his future salary and age.
Personally, I want Butler to stay on the Bulls. I like him there (but I also like the Bulls in general).

Kwahi is irrelevant. There's no way to pry him from the Spurs, anyway.

[Unbreakable99]

Umm no butler dude will be like 26 next year. Why would we fetch a bunch of money out to a guy who isn't a major star . The only guy if we decide to spend money on free agents should be Kwahi Leonard who will be 24 and already prove a winner at the highest level. However both of these are less likely to happen anyways.

And? He's just starting to get into his prime. He will have about 7 good years he can play at a high level. You say he's not a major star because he didn't come out as a major star and this is his first season he has played well on offense. People get better. He got better. He's arguably the best player on the best team.

[LeonJordanJr24]

I don't have much doubt that Hinkie likes Butler as a player. He's very similar in attitude and style of play to the wings he chose lately in the draft. The real question here is whether Hinkie wants to tank another year or not. If he wants to get better quickly, he'll try to go for him (Embiid, Noel, Butler, KJ, MCW is a nice 5 to put on the floor to develop together + that 2015 pick). If he wants to suck as much as possible and progress slowly, he will stay put (or make a minor move). I have a feeling Hinkie wants to prolong our bottoming, to get another high pick. Also, there's the question of Butler's abilities against his future salary and age.
Personally, I want Butler to stay on the Bulls. I like him there (but I also like the Bulls in general).

Kwahi is irrelevant. There's no way to pry him from the Spurs, anyway.

How about we draft Stanley Johnson and save our money. Stanley Johnson will most likely be just as good or better in the next few years. He as low bust potential and a very high ceiling . He brings the same assertiveness , intangibles and leadership qualities you want on your team just younger and bigger.

[Unbreakable99]

I don't have much doubt that Hinkie likes Butler as a player. He's very similar in attitude and style of play to the wings he chose lately in the draft. The real question here is whether Hinkie wants to tank another year or not. If he wants to get better quickly, he'll try to go for him (Embiid, Noel, Butler, KJ, MCW is a nice 5 to put on the floor to develop together + that 2015 pick). If he wants to suck as much as possible and progress slowly, he will stay put (or make a minor move). I have a feeling Hinkie wants to prolong our bottoming, to get another high pick. Also, there's the question of Butler's abilities against his future salary and age.
Personally, I want Butler to stay on the Bulls. I like him there (but I also like the Bulls in general).

Kwahi is irrelevant. There's no way to pry him from the Spurs, anyway.

How about we draft Stanley Johnson and save our money. Stanley Johnson will most likely be just as good or better in the next few years. He as low bust potential and a very high ceiling . He brings the same assertiveness , intangibles and leadership qualities you want on your team just younger and bigger.

You don't know for sure if Johnson will be as good as Butler. There are always busts. I want a sure thing. Hinkie has to at least entertain him and offer the max. He's what you look for in a player. I don't know how anyone doesn't think he's a max player. I don't know how no one would want him.

[LeonJordanJr24]

I don't have much doubt that Hinkie likes Butler as a player. He's very similar in attitude and style of play to the wings he chose lately in the draft. The real question here is whether Hinkie wants to tank another year or not. If he wants to get better quickly, he'll try to go for him (Embiid, Noel, Butler, KJ, MCW is a nice 5 to put on the floor to develop together + that 2015 pick). If he wants to suck as much as possible and progress slowly, he will stay put (or make a minor move). I have a feeling Hinkie wants to prolong our bottoming, to get another high pick. Also, there's the question of Butler's abilities against his future salary and age.
Personally, I want Butler to stay on the Bulls. I like him there (but I also like the Bulls in general).

Kwahi is irrelevant. There's no way to pry him from the Spurs, anyway.

How about we draft Stanley Johnson and save our money. Stanley Johnson will most likely be just as good or better in the next few years. He as low bust potential and a very high ceiling . He brings the same assertiveness , intangibles and leadership qualities you want on your team just younger and bigger.

You don't know for sure if Johnson will be as good as Butler. There are always busts. I want a sure thing. Hinkie has to at least entertain him and offer the max. He's what you look for in a player. I don't know how anyone doesn't think he's a max player. I don't know how no one would want him.

Embiid isn't a sure thing yet either so why rush the rebuild. Stanley Johnson has a NBA body and a Smallfoward skillset we can build with on this team. I rather take my time and build a team than spend money on a high end role player who is having a good season like Butler . I think KJ Mcdaniels has the potential as well to be as good as Butler.

[Unbreakable99]

I don't know why people continue to label Butler as a role player. He's arguably the best player on the best team. He's not putting up hollow stats on a bad team. He's putting up big numbers on a potential championship team. Why is it so difficult to call him a very good player and not a role player? And getting Butler wouldn't hurt us. He looks like he can play at a high level for the next 7 years. Chicago counts on him to score and teams do game plan for him. If he keeps this up for the entire season Hinkie would be an idiot not to offer him a max. Butler is the leading scorer. That's not a role player. Name the last role player who led his team in scoring that was a championship caliber team.

[the_process]

There needs to be new thread opened with the same premise about Kawhi Leonard. HE is a player you can offer the max to and feel good about it, even if you are still paying for potential. Butler is an absolute no at his projected price tag.

[Sixerscan]

There needs to be new thread opened with the same premise about Kawhi Leonard. HE is a player you can offer the max to and feel good about it, even if you are still paying for potential. Butler is an absolute no at his projected price tag.

What do you think he should be paid

[ckchen]

I don't know why people continue to label Butler as a role player. He's arguably the best player on the best team. He's not putting up hollow stats on a bad team. He's putting up big numbers on a potential championship team. Why is it so difficult to call him a very good player and not a role player? And getting Butler wouldn't hurt us. He looks like he can play at a high level for the next 7 years. Chicago counts on him to score and teams do game plan for him. If he keeps this up for the entire season Hinkie would be an idiot not to offer him a max. Butler is the leading scorer. That's not a role player. Name the last role player who led his team in scoring that was a championship caliber team.

Because he's done it for about 2 months. People were ready to anoint Jeremy Lin after few spectacular months - and now he looks like the role player he was always destined to be. Not saying that's the case here, but anointing someone a max player for the next 7 years after 2 months of spectacular play, especially after 3 full seasons of mostly just defensive work and just a decent solid role-player type of role would be irresponsible. You're just as likely to be signing that guy that reverts to that role player role on another team than signing the guy that looks like max player in a certain situation.

Look at Lance Stephenson - a few months ago everyone talked about him as an automatic triple double threat (albeit a potential head case). 3 months later the team that signed him to a 3 yr/$27M deal is looking to ditch him because he's not even performing close to that level and the team that had him won't even take him back without a 1st round pick.

Every case is different, but when you're trying to sign a player away from a team at a max contract level, you better be damn sure you're getting a max player. I don't think that's the case yet.

In fact, there is a very solid argument (google it) - that there are very very few players worth a max extension and that of a historical analysis of past players who got a max deal over the past 20 years there are almost no players who weren't multiple All-NBA team type players who ever lived up to that kind of a deal, and that most teams that sign players to max deals basically end up regretting it later. There is a reason why Chicago and San Antonio haven't already locked these guys up with max deals - and why everyone questions whether Gordon Hayward or even Klay Thompson were worth the max deals that they got (both of whom have a much deeper track record than Butler).

[Agnostifarian]

I don't have much doubt that Hinkie likes Butler as a player. He's very similar in attitude and style of play to the wings he chose lately in the draft. The real question here is whether Hinkie wants to tank another year or not. If he wants to get better quickly, he'll try to go for him (Embiid, Noel, Butler, KJ, MCW is a nice 5 to put on the floor to develop together + that 2015 pick). If he wants to suck as much as possible and progress slowly, he will stay put (or make a minor move). I have a feeling Hinkie wants to prolong our bottoming, to get another high pick. Also, there's the question of Butler's abilities against his future salary and age.
Personally, I want Butler to stay on the Bulls. I like him there (but I also like the Bulls in general).

Kwahi is irrelevant. There's no way to pry him from the Spurs, anyway.

How about we draft Stanley Johnson and save our money. Stanley Johnson will most likely be just as good or better in the next few years. He as low bust potential and a very high ceiling . He brings the same assertiveness , intangibles and leadership qualities you want on your team just younger and bigger.

I like Butler and Leonard even at max deals but agree that the timing is too early and I'd prefer Stanley Johnson or even Kelly Oubre as a similar type of player. (Maybe the Heat pick and Wroten could get us Oubre next June. I'd rather do that than sign Butler or Leonard.)

Not saying that Leonard and/or Butler are NOT worth max deals BUT Philly should try to avoid making "max or above mkt deals" to players on other teams if it results in our players getting unrealistic expectations about their own extensions when their times come. I also don't want very good FAs to expect to get paid like max FAs just because they are dealing with Philly.

[Unbreakable99]

I don't know why people continue to label Butler as a role player. He's arguably the best player on the best team. He's not putting up hollow stats on a bad team. He's putting up big numbers on a potential championship team. Why is it so difficult to call him a very good player and not a role player? And getting Butler wouldn't hurt us. He looks like he can play at a high level for the next 7 years. Chicago counts on him to score and teams do game plan for him. If he keeps this up for the entire season Hinkie would be an idiot not to offer him a max. Butler is the leading scorer. That's not a role player. Name the last role player who led his team in scoring that was a championship caliber team.

Because he's done it for about 2 months. People were ready to anoint Jeremy Lin after few spectacular months - and now he looks like the role player he was always destined to be. Not saying that's the case here, but anointing someone a max player for the next 7 years after 2 months of spectacular play, especially after 3 full seasons of mostly just defensive work and just a decent solid role-player type of role would be irresponsible. You're just as likely to be signing that guy that reverts to that role player role on another team than signing the guy that looks like max player in a certain situation.

Look at Lance Stephenson - a few months ago everyone talked about him as an automatic triple double threat (albeit a potential head case). 3 months later the team that signed him to a 3 yr/$27M deal is looking to ditch him because he's not even performing close to that level and the team that had him won't even take him back without a 1st round pick.

Every case is different, but when you're trying to sign a player away from a team at a max contract level, you better be damn sure you're getting a max player. I don't think that's the case yet.

In fact, there is a very solid argument (google it) - that there are very very few players worth a max extension and that of a historical analysis of past players who got a max deal over the past 20 years there are almost no players who weren't multiple All-NBA team type players who ever lived up to that kind of a deal, and that most teams that sign players to max deals basically end up regretting it later. There is a reason why Chicago and San Antonio haven't already locked these guys up with max deals - and why everyone questions whether Gordon Hayward or even Klay Thompson were worth the max deals that they got (both of whom have a much deeper track record than Butler).

The good thing about Butler is that no team can offer him anything until the season is over. If his production falls for the rest of the season then don't offer the max. If he keeps this up then we will have an entire season of high play from Butler. If he keeps this up then a max would be warranted.

[snoopdogg88]

too early for me to go crazy over Jimmy Butler.

I see a better than average role player overachieving right now on a really good team.

think Lance Stephenson (not as cancerous as Lance obviously) just not the kind of player I want to spend big money on

[ckchen]

The good thing about Butler is that no team can offer him anything until the season is over. If his production falls for the rest of the season then don't offer the max. If he keeps this up then we will have an entire season of high play from Butler. If he keeps this up then a max would be warranted.

Frankly, even then, it's still a toss-up. As I mentioned before, very often a player's performance is dependent on the team they're on, the system they run, etc. Just like Lance Stephenson suddenly became dog crap on the Hornets, Butler could very well tank in a new setting. Frankly, even if he makes it through the whole season at his current level, it's still probably debatable whether or not he would be worth a max deal, as I mentioned before very very few players historically perform up to the level of max deals.

[Unbreakable99]

The good thing about Butler is that no team can offer him anything until the season is over. If his production falls for the rest of the season then don't offer the max. If he keeps this up then we will have an entire season of high play from Butler. If he keeps this up then a max would be warranted.

Frankly, even then, it's still a toss-up. As I mentioned before, very often a player's performance is dependent on the team they're on, the system they run, etc. Just like Lance Stephenson suddenly became dog crap on the Hornets, Butler could very well tank in a new setting. Frankly, even if he makes it through the whole season at his current level, it's still probably debatable whether or not he would be worth a max deal, as I mentioned before very very few players historically perform up to the level of max deals.

Why does he have to be Stephenson? Again can you name one player in the entire history of the NBA who led his team in scoring that was considered championship caliber who was considered a role player? Butler currently leads his team in scoring.

[Tension]

Jimmy Butler is a budding star and a lock for most improved but It's a lot on his coaching staff also. I doubt we'd even be able to land him, but I'd pay the price. I think people are thrown off by who he's been over the years, but people need to start watching more Bulls games. Especially when Rose isn't playing, who can be a black hole on the offense at times. Jimmy looks great as the focal point of a team, you can even equate it to a Pau=Embiid/Noel=Noah team makeup

[ckchen]

The good thing about Butler is that no team can offer him anything until the season is over. If his production falls for the rest of the season then don't offer the max. If he keeps this up then we will have an entire season of high play from Butler. If he keeps this up then a max would be warranted.

Frankly, even then, it's still a toss-up. As I mentioned before, very often a player's performance is dependent on the team they're on, the system they run, etc. Just like Lance Stephenson suddenly became dog crap on the Hornets, Butler could very well tank in a new setting. Frankly, even if he makes it through the whole season at his current level, it's still probably debatable whether or not he would be worth a max deal, as I mentioned before very very few players historically perform up to the level of max deals.

Why does he have to be Stephenson? Again can you name one player in the entire history of the NBA who led his team in scoring that was considered championship caliber who was considered a role player? Butler currently leads his team in scoring.

I think you're anointing this year's Bulls as "championship caliber" a little...no WAY early, don't you think? By that reckoning Toronto is also championship caliber.

Speaking of which - DeMar Derozan. Probably leads that team in scoring. Historically, on playoff teams? I can probably pull a few out there. Joe Johnson when he was on the Hawks. Monta Ellis either GSW or DAL versions. Good star players? Yes. Max players? No. Although Joe Johnson basically got a max deal, he never should have.

[Att]

When I opened the thread, I didn't think it would take a max contract to pry him from the Bulls, but Jimmy has been great, even better than I thought. The difference between him and Demar Derozan, who is a very very good player by his own right, is his defense. Butler is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.