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Daily News writers still clueless

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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#61 » by Ericb5 » Thu May 21, 2015 8:03 pm

GiantRobot wrote:Daily News is a great example of why not all unions are all that great. Boring, old writers who can't write a good, relevant article to save their lives thump anything new as scary and wrong. Always behind the curve, never informative... basically sports news for the 50+ year old crowd who hasn't figured out the internet yet.


Some of these writers like Gerardi and Hayes have personality problems that just comes out in their stories. It is totally fair to be against the tank, but they get so worked up in their disagreement that the motives or competence of the other side has to be destroyed. The people on the other side of the argument become idiots, or morons, or cult members, or charlatans, etc..

You can be against it like John Smallwood and keep your dignity.

If two years from now Embiid is a superstar and we have another star, or even two, next to him and are winning 55+ games, they will never own up to their previous opinions. They will say that Hinkie had nothing to do with it, or that we could have done this with out losing 60+ games a year, or that they were just wrong before, but they will never admit that that the character assassination, bravado, and vitriol was not fair. They will never learn the lesson of disagreeing without being disagreeable.

Howard Eskin is a master of this. He won't ever say "I think such and such will happen" He will say "It's a lock that this will happen and any of you that disagree with me are idiots". Then if he turns out to be wrong about something he will just say something like "Ah, you get some things right and some things wrong. Nobody is perfect. I get paid to give my opinion"

These guys never learn the humility that should come to everyone as they realize that they don't know all of the answers. Never argue in bad faith with people.

You will NEVER EVER see me get in a fan's face if my team beats his team. I have had enough crushing defeats to know how that feels, and it is plain juvenile and cruel to be a sore winner.

One of the things that I really like about the Realgm boards, is that there is so much less abuse and immaturity as there was on the espn boards before. All of that stuff is relegated to the general board which I see no reason to ever visit frankly. The general discourse between fans of various teams talking to each other on the team boards is pretty darn civil.

Also, people who are vehemently anti-Hinkie can never defend what they think that we SHOULD have done differently. They just say things like, he gutted the team, he's a disgrace, look how team X was able to get good without tanking, etc... When it comes down to getting people to commit on the major decisions of the time, they are no where to be found.

What free agents should we have signed?
Should we have resigned Evan Turner, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes?
Is Jrue Holiday worth more than Noel, Saric, our 2017 first round pick, the 2015 Magic second round pick plus an indeterminate number of draft slots of difference between where we would have drafted and where we DID draft the following year? (the difference between getting worse and getting the 3rd pick verses staying better and getting the 8-12th pick)
If we shouldn't have taken Embiid 3rd, who should we have taken?
If we shouldn't have taken Saric, the 2017 first rounder, and the 2015 first rounder for our 10th pick, who should we have taken?

I want these people on the record affirmatively stating the course that they think we should have taken instead of being allowed to get away with simply hating on the course that we DID take.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#62 » by Mik317 » Thu May 21, 2015 8:15 pm

If its never been done before and there is no guarantee is your main defense, then it is a waste of time talking to you. No **** Sherlock. Neither one of those things should stop you from doing anything....especially the latter. Nothing in life is guaranteed. Every single plan can backfire in your face. FA? What if the guy you want doesn't sign with you? Now what? You sign second or third options? Well congrats you are the current Dallas Mavericks. A good team who will now have to yet again hope people sign with them. Ok so let's try just competing and collecting mid lottery to mid round picks...The Pacers did it afterall. Ok...what if you just top out? The Joe Johnson Atlanta Hawks? The Sixers for the last decade? Potentially the Current Raptors? Then what...we would be in the same boat. And to be fair, I'll do our current plan. Tank so hard, bottom out and get top prospects. OKC YALL. But what if you don't get those guys, just miss out on them or worse take busts? Now you are either mediocre (Hornets) or just awful (Kings)....welp.

All 3 methods have their downsides. That does not mean you do not try them. 1 team every year is successful and each of them have been built in various methods. The Hawks are built via what I will call the Pacers method (kind of skewed thanks to top 3 pick Al Horford tho), The Cavs are built via tanking or sucking (yes this got Bron back but he doesn't return without Kyrie and Love, gained via their draft picks), The Warriors built via the draft (maybe not super high picks but Curry was drafted 7, Barnes 8 and Bogut, a 1st overall pick was obtained thanks to years of draft picks), The Rockets got Harden via draft picks (and Presti losing his mind). All different methods of team building, 3 of which are done via the draft, but still imagine if the Cavs overpaid guys to stick it to LeBron...he probably wouldn't be there right now because they'd lack Kyrie. But then again imagine if the Hawks traded everybdy? I understand it works both ways...again we all understand it can easily backfire and we could become the Old Clippers teams..if that was to happen tho, Hinkie's ass would be grass waaaay before it gets to 8 years or some ****. Trust me if at the end of this year, we have made no progress, his seat would get much hotter. Would there still be some stragglers who defend everything? Hell yeah but there would be less.

so relax. As of right now, we are still on schedule. There hasn't been any real noticeable slippage yet. We are a bad team. But that was going to happen no matter what...with MCW,with Thad, with Wiggins or Exum. it is rare that a team goes from bottom 5 to mid 15.

relax
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#63 » by NYSixersFan » Fri May 22, 2015 12:46 am

Skates wrote:By the way the tanking multiple seasons thing has been done plenty of times before and often for far more than two to three seasons. The fact that Hinkie did it with a rebuilding plan, rather than through sheer incompetence like the KIngs, Clippers of old and Cavaliers and plenty of others have is the only difference. No one is or was threatened by the morons who continually fail to build a team, but they are scared and jealous of the smart guy who slowly and methodically does it.


No one has tanked at this level before...as you mentioned, other teams were just incompetent.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#64 » by LongLiveHinkie » Fri May 22, 2015 12:53 am

Dude, you are getting into such a zone of semantics. Sucking is sucking. What have the Sixers done that no one else has? They traded away mediocre players like Spencer Hawes and Evan Turner. They drafted two guys who happened to not be ready in year one. Despite moronic opinion, they were drafted because Hinkie liked their talents, not because it would help them tank the following season. If Embiid was healthy, he would have gone #1 and Wiggins would have been taken by the Sixers at #3.

I'm missing the big "wow" thing the Sixers have done that is unprecedented in the world of tanking. The Magic have won 25 games or less in 3 straight seasons now. The Thunder got top picks in 3 straight years as well.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#65 » by NYSixersFan » Fri May 22, 2015 12:54 am

I don't quite understand why people bring up the previous 10-30 years of Sixers basketball as a defense for what Hinkie is doing....That should have nothing to do with the current plan.

If this works and believe it or not, I hope it does, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

What I'd like to know is when will we know if it's not working? Because it seems like just about any move Hinkie makes will be rationalized and defended.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#66 » by LongLiveHinkie » Fri May 22, 2015 1:03 am

NYSixersFan wrote:I don't quite understand why people bring up the previous 10-30 years of Sixers basketball as a defense for what Hinkie is doing....That should have nothing to do with the current plan.

If this works and believe it or not, I hope it does, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

What I'd like to know is when will we know if it's not working? Because it seems like just about any move Hinkie makes will be rationalized and defended.


It has a direct correlation to what the Sixers are doing. The last 10-30 years of Sixers basketball was trying to patch it together every year by signing free agents(none of them superstars), picking in the teens(most of the time) and deluding themselves to thinking somehow they will eventually get over the hump and beat the elite teams. The Sixers' approach now is directly to the contrary of that. They tore it down completely, sucked for a few years, and are building it back up.

I think it's pretty obvious when we'll know if it's not working. If Embiid and Russell/Mudiay/Winslow/Hezonja/whoever we draft this year suck, then it will not have worked. Not because the plan was bad, but because they picked the wrong players, though. Reason being, the Sixers couldn't win the other way, so they had no choice. 30 years of trying it that way and failing was proof of that. It was a vicious cycle that would have went on and on forever. Win 35-40 games, pick 16th, draft mediocre player, sign mediocre players for the MLE, rinse and repeat over and over and over again.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#67 » by Chamberlainship » Fri May 22, 2015 10:53 am

NYSixersFan wrote:This forum amazes me...I sometimes wonder if it's made up of friends and family of Hinkie.


Tony Bruno calls people who refuse to accept that some criticism of Hinkie is warranted "Hinkie Truthers." Pretty funny.

We're moving into a period where "accountability" is actually going to become a relevant term again. I'm excited about that.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#68 » by CoreyGallagher » Fri May 22, 2015 11:33 am

Having to resort to ad homonym is pretty funny and the fact that it's resorted to so often is even more so... That's exactly what this cult, truther, etc bull is.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#69 » by Wilfried » Fri May 22, 2015 11:47 am

Westbrook36 wrote:It has a direct correlation to what the Sixers are doing. The last 10-30 years of Sixers basketball was trying to patch it together every year by signing free agents(none of them superstars), picking in the teens(most of the time) and deluding themselves to thinking somehow they will eventually get over the hump and beat the elite teams. The Sixers' approach now is directly to the contrary of that. They tore it down completely, sucked for a few years, and are building it back up.

I think it's pretty obvious when we'll know if it's not working. If Embiid and Russell/Mudiay/Winslow/Hezonja/whoever we draft this year suck, then it will not have worked. Not because the plan was bad, but because they picked the wrong players, though. Reason being, the Sixers couldn't win the other way, so they had no choice. 30 years of trying it that way and failing was proof of that. It was a vicious cycle that would have went on and on forever. Win 35-40 games, pick 16th, draft mediocre player, sign mediocre players for the MLE, rinse and repeat over and over and over again.


Before this year, I had the same reasoning.

But then, I saw the Hawks, a team that with good coaching and non-superstar players delivered.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#70 » by guitarpath » Fri May 22, 2015 12:01 pm

Wilfried wrote:
Westbrook36 wrote:It has a direct correlation to what the Sixers are doing. The last 10-30 years of Sixers basketball was trying to patch it together every year by signing free agents(none of them superstars), picking in the teens(most of the time) and deluding themselves to thinking somehow they will eventually get over the hump and beat the elite teams. The Sixers' approach now is directly to the contrary of that. They tore it down completely, sucked for a few years, and are building it back up.

I think it's pretty obvious when we'll know if it's not working. If Embiid and Russell/Mudiay/Winslow/Hezonja/whoever we draft this year suck, then it will not have worked. Not because the plan was bad, but because they picked the wrong players, though. Reason being, the Sixers couldn't win the other way, so they had no choice. 30 years of trying it that way and failing was proof of that. It was a vicious cycle that would have went on and on forever. Win 35-40 games, pick 16th, draft mediocre player, sign mediocre players for the MLE, rinse and repeat over and over and over again.


Before this year, I had the same reasoning.

But then, I saw the Hawks, a team that with good coaching and non-superstar players delivered.



The question should be this: Is the Hawks' model sustainable?

In other words, can a team with a bunch a really good (but not superstar-level great) players who are well-coached contend for a title over a period of several years?

I think Hinkie's ultimate goal is not simply to build a title contender. It is to build one which can compete for a championship over several years.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#71 » by BullyKing » Fri May 22, 2015 12:22 pm

Wilfried wrote:
Westbrook36 wrote:It has a direct correlation to what the Sixers are doing. The last 10-30 years of Sixers basketball was trying to patch it together every year by signing free agents(none of them superstars), picking in the teens(most of the time) and deluding themselves to thinking somehow they will eventually get over the hump and beat the elite teams. The Sixers' approach now is directly to the contrary of that. They tore it down completely, sucked for a few years, and are building it back up.

I think it's pretty obvious when we'll know if it's not working. If Embiid and Russell/Mudiay/Winslow/Hezonja/whoever we draft this year suck, then it will not have worked. Not because the plan was bad, but because they picked the wrong players, though. Reason being, the Sixers couldn't win the other way, so they had no choice. 30 years of trying it that way and failing was proof of that. It was a vicious cycle that would have went on and on forever. Win 35-40 games, pick 16th, draft mediocre player, sign mediocre players for the MLE, rinse and repeat over and over and over again.


Before this year, I had the same reasoning.

But then, I saw the Hawks, a team that with good coaching and non-superstar players delivered.


Basing your strategy around trying to replicate outliers is a pretty stupid operating model.
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Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#72 » by Ericb5 » Fri May 22, 2015 12:51 pm

Wilfried wrote:
Westbrook36 wrote:It has a direct correlation to what the Sixers are doing. The last 10-30 years of Sixers basketball was trying to patch it together every year by signing free agents(none of them superstars), picking in the teens(most of the time) and deluding themselves to thinking somehow they will eventually get over the hump and beat the elite teams. The Sixers' approach now is directly to the contrary of that. They tore it down completely, sucked for a few years, and are building it back up.

I think it's pretty obvious when we'll know if it's not working. If Embiid and Russell/Mudiay/Winslow/Hezonja/whoever we draft this year suck, then it will not have worked. Not because the plan was bad, but because they picked the wrong players, though. Reason being, the Sixers couldn't win the other way, so they had no choice. 30 years of trying it that way and failing was proof of that. It was a vicious cycle that would have went on and on forever. Win 35-40 games, pick 16th, draft mediocre player, sign mediocre players for the MLE, rinse and repeat over and over and over again.


Before this year, I had the same reasoning.

But then, I saw the Hawks, a team that with good coaching and non-superstar players delivered.


The Hawks are a big success story for sure, and nobody has said that the Hinkie way is the only way to build a contender, but the Hawks seem more like a "lightning in a bottle" thing that won't last.

Also, how long as it taken the Hawks to get to this point? They have been the epitome of a treadmill team for seemingly decades.


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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#73 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 22, 2015 1:08 pm

Atlanta is where they are today because they had the 4th worst record in the '06-'07 season and hit the lotto to land a top 3 pick to select Al Horford.

So before all the good signings and coaching, it all began with a lotto big that they were rewarded with after losing seasons.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#74 » by PSUEagle » Fri May 22, 2015 1:19 pm

I don't see Atlanta as a viable counterpoint unless they win it all (hint: ain't happening).

We've see this movie RE: the Hawks before: Nuggets of a couple years ago, mid-2000's Memphis, etc: deep teams without star power that win a lot of regular season games by playing hard/using their depth before petering out in the playoffs when every team plays hard/scouts all of their stuff in extensive detail.

In order to sustain success for a decade plus (Hinkie's goal) you need elite players. If the draft guys I've been reading here over the years lurking are correct, Embiid will be one of those pieces. Then it just becomes a matter of finding that second star, which is where the 2015/2016 drafts will come in to play.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#75 » by bedjawII » Fri May 22, 2015 1:46 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:I don't quite understand why people bring up the previous 10-30 years of Sixers basketball as a defense for what Hinkie is doing....That should have nothing to do with the current plan.

If this works and believe it or not, I hope it does, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

What I'd like to know is when will we know if it's not working? Because it seems like just about any move Hinkie makes will be rationalized and defended.


It's working right now as evidence by the young talent and draft picks. That was phase 1 of the plan...acquire assets. So you can't logically look at the Sixers roster and all their draft picks and say Hinkie has been unsuccessful in acquiring assets. The plan is unfolding. Could it hit a snag...sure! And there are plenty of opportunities for that to happen. We are still in the beginning phase of this and certainly last years draft delayed any progress. But Hinkie is doing exactly what he has said he would do and it's pretty easy to see.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#76 » by Sixerscan » Fri May 22, 2015 2:41 pm

Chamberlainship wrote:
NYSixersFan wrote:This forum amazes me...I sometimes wonder if it's made up of friends and family of Hinkie.


Tony Bruno calls people who refuse to accept that some criticism of Hinkie is warranted "Hinkie Truthers." Pretty funny.


It's a lot easier to resort to personal attacks and equating people that disagree with you to those that think 9/11 was an inside job rather than actually engaging the actual point of their argument (That this was the best plan of action post Bynum trade, and Hinkie has more information than we do so he deserves the benefit of the doubt). Pretty funny.

BTW, if there's a side here that are "truthers," I'd say it's the group of people that accuse Hinkie of having some sort of end goal long term other than putting the best basketball team on the court, such as stripping the team to move/sell it. It's one thing to call someone incompetent, it's another to accuse him of engaging in some sort of huge conspiracy.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#77 » by snoopdogg88 » Fri May 22, 2015 3:37 pm

God I hate when people bring up the freaking Atlanta Hawks

Yeah, the same franchise that had been the epitome of mediocre for the previous 40 years is a real model of success.
They just made the Eastern Conference Finals for the first time EVER. and we're going to point to them as the success story?!

And lets not ignore they missed the playoffs 8 straight seasons and got Horford which started this whole "run" of getting beaten in the Eastern Conference Finals anyway. I don't want to be a fake contender like Atlanta or Memphis personally. I want star players who will give me a chance at seriously competing for a championship.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#78 » by Kobblehead » Fri May 22, 2015 4:01 pm

I'm not buying Atlanta being a fake contender. They were very formidable and a match-up nightmare for the Cavs before Sefolosha went down.
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#79 » by Sixerscan » Fri May 22, 2015 4:07 pm

I would love if the Sixers were the Hawks or Grizz.

Feel like people underestimate just how far we were in 2013 from becoming either of those teams though. Remember, this wasn't a playoff team they blew up, it was a team that had lost 48 games (With a pythagorean record of 31-51) while being relatively healthy all year with no real cap room, no young prospects or picks to trade etc
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Re: Daily News writers still clueless 

Post#80 » by PhilasFinest » Fri May 22, 2015 4:10 pm

Atlanta is extremely well coached and there style is very difficult to defend and matchup with.

They are essentially Spurs lite. They have a very quick PG who can get into the lane and find the open man, 2 very good big men who can defend,rebound and score and then they have a plethora of shooters and scrappy wings to surround them. They play team oriented, unselfish basketball and attack weaknesses just like the Spurs.

I know Brown is cut from the same cloth as Pop/Bud and I truly hope we start to play more like these teams in the future as we collect more talent.Its a pleasure to watch and simply wins games.
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