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Welcome Okafor

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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1241 » by BobThornton » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:21 pm

GoSixersBro wrote:
Ericb5 wrote:Okafor is our first star player since Iverson, and any grumbling about stats should be taken with a grain of salt. If our team is less efficient with him on the floor then we replace the rest of the team.

You keep the star, and find the pieces to put around him. I have always said that the tank/rebuild doesn't end until the first star is found, and I think that we have our first star now. He's 19 and surrounded by crap, but I think that he is destined to be a star.



Exactly.


Wasn't Wiggins completely inefficient last year? Did that stop people on this board from wishing we had him?
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Re: RE: Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1242 » by Sportfan73 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:39 pm

BobThornton wrote:
GoSixersBro wrote:
Ericb5 wrote:Okafor is our first star player since Iverson, and any grumbling about stats should be taken with a grain of salt. If our team is less efficient with him on the floor then we replace the rest of the team.

You keep the star, and find the pieces to put around him. I have always said that the tank/rebuild doesn't end until the first star is found, and I think that we have our first star now. He's 19 and surrounded by crap, but I think that he is destined to be a star.



Exactly.


Wasn't Wiggins completely inefficient last year? Did that stop people on this board from wishing we had him?

Wiggins is still inefficient is you just let him shoot long 2s instead of making him drive like grant did
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1243 » by 76ciology » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:10 pm

JordanianSixers wrote:Just Imagine if Okafor can add 3 point shot to his game !!!


He will. It's almost inevitable.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1244 » by PhilasFinest » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:43 pm

BobThornton wrote:
GoSixersBro wrote:
Ericb5 wrote:Okafor is our first star player since Iverson, and any grumbling about stats should be taken with a grain of salt. If our team is less efficient with him on the floor then we replace the rest of the team.

You keep the star, and find the pieces to put around him. I have always said that the tank/rebuild doesn't end until the first star is found, and I think that we have our first star now. He's 19 and surrounded by crap, but I think that he is destined to be a star.



Exactly.


Wasn't Wiggins completely inefficient last year? Did that stop people on this board from wishing we had him?


People just talked themselves into wishing they didnt have him.....in reality, I think a majority of us would trade in Embiid's foot for Wiggins all day.

I know I would.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1245 » by Mik317 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:56 pm

The Wiggins hate, while some is validated as many didn't like him at the time of the draft, generally reeks of many not wanting to admit that perhaps other teams players are better.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1246 » by aak5fv » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:20 pm

76ciology wrote:
pittsburgh22 wrote:
marcush wrote:.

If you really watch every game and replays like what I have done this season, you'll see how Jah improves with the way he is slowly adjusting to the league and it's players.


Could you explain more about how he is improving?(don't worry I think Jah is a stud) I think maybe the Jah haters are just more vocal and people get a twisted picture of how 76ers fans actually feel like about their budding star who is also just a great kid.

Chad Ford seems to really want Okafor to not succeed just because he **** on him before the draft, but at this point I don't think anyone takes his opinions seriously after it came out he has repeatedly gone back and changed his mock drafts because he has a sick obsession with being right, or more accurately "appearing right". He'll continue the negative narrative against Jah.

Also do you feel like the 76ers present situation is hurting Okafor's development? One could actually say that this could light a fire under Jah to try to be even more dominant while addressing his real issues that might have been covered up on a better team like KAT and Minnesota (don't worry I think KAT is a stud too). By the time Okafor has some at least marginal NBA talent around him, he'll be ready to take over the league and will have a desperate need to win since he is in for a lot of losses this year.

Just as another note...I don't think people realize that Hinkie might be the best possible person to develop Okafor. As a stats guy myself, I've read repeatedly on the insane detail to which they are critiquing Okafor on his game. Hinkie might develop a monster.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1247 » by LeonJordanJr24 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:48 pm

I'm a little annoyed about the advance stats and efficiency numbers being thrown around on this board. The way I see it a star is a star . You either have it or you don't. Jahlil has it . He is a guy you can build a team around as your best player or second best player . He is really that special. I envision Jah and Joel becoming a dominant frontcourt once Jah gets in top condition. I think he will be better suited as a interchangable 4/5 because he projects to be a at least a decent man to man defender. He's quicker than Zach Randolph. Embiid is a better fit than noel because he can shoot with range out to 3pt land and is a way better offensive player and comparable defender. A 7'2ft serge ibaka. Trading Jah would be a stupid move . Dude is ridiculious for any age . Yet, he's a 19 year old rookie.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1248 » by 76ciology » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:55 pm

Mik317 wrote:The Wiggins hate, while some is validated as many didn't like him at the time of the draft, generally reeks of many not wanting to admit that perhaps other teams players are better.


Disappointment or satisfaction depends on whether a personal expectation is met or not.

Wiggins didn't reach 14PER until late season. Was not an efficient scorer and had little impact to the game. Based on stats and eyetest, he's a good individual 2 way player but poor team player (low impact defense and doesn't make his teammates better due to loss assists).

He's 19, so it's unfair to say he won't improve. I don't think anyone is saying he can't be a star wing like a Paul George or Derozan. It's more of people like me don't see him being a wing in the same echelon of KD, LBJ, Kobe and MJ, which most Wiggins fans like to believe.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1249 » by Eyeamok » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:13 am

LeonJordanJr24 wrote:I'm a little annoyed about the advance stats and efficiency numbers being thrown around on this board. The way I see it a star is a star . You either have it or you don't. Jahlil has it . He is a guy you can build a team around as your best player or second best player . He is really that special. I envision Jah and Joel becoming a dominant frontcourt once Jah gets in top condition. I think he will be better suited as a interchangable 4/5 because he projects to be a at least a decent man to man defender. He's quicker than Zach Randolph. Embiid is a better fit than noel because he can shoot with range out to 3pt land and is a way better offensive player and comparable defender. A 7'2ft serge ibaka. Trading Jah would be a stupid move . Dude is ridiculious for any age . Yet, he's a 19 year old rookie.


You should not be annoyed at the advanced stats and efficiency numbers. They are what they are. He has played 15 games and he has holes in his game. But too many people are acting like he is a finished product. The stats show where he has to improve and I honestly believe he will. With a better team around him and working on his weaknesses he will be better. Which is pretty scary.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1250 » by 76ers 2020 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:19 am

The real plus minus numbers aren't kind to Okafor. Last among centers in WAR, the only one in the negatives. 60th out of 63 on DRPM. ORPM he is last among centers. Last in RPM over 2 points behind Bargnani. His ORPM is actually lowest among all players. Surprised a bit by that one. Noel is 3rd to last in that category as well. Highest WAR on the team is Canaan at 143rd overall.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1251 » by GoSixersBro » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:08 am

Not sure if this has been shared on our forum, but worth the watch.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwuxpZa51C0[/youtube]
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1252 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:00 am

76ers 2020 wrote:The real plus minus numbers aren't kind to Okafor. Last among centers in WAR, the only one in the negatives. 60th out of 63 on DRPM. ORPM he is last among centers. Last in RPM over 2 points behind Bargnani. His ORPM is actually lowest among all players. Surprised a bit by that one. Noel is 3rd to last in that category as well. Highest WAR on the team is Canaan at 143rd overall.


:banghead: stats like these tend to be a little misleading. If people can't see the talent, abilities, and overall potential that Okafor has than they are stubborn haters and nothing more than that. Analytics make my head spin. I'm sure if I actually cared to delve into them I could become more knowledgeable about them. PER seems fairly legit, thing is we didn't need advanced stats and analytics to determine how good a player was twenty years ago. It's not a matter of getting with the times for me, it's more IDGAF what analytics say (wadr), I can usually tell if a player is good by watching them.

The dreaded QBR rating in the NFL is another example. According to that Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1253 » by Unbreakable99 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:01 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
76ers 2020 wrote:The real plus minus numbers aren't kind to Okafor. Last among centers in WAR, the only one in the negatives. 60th out of 63 on DRPM. ORPM he is last among centers. Last in RPM over 2 points behind Bargnani. His ORPM is actually lowest among all players. Surprised a bit by that one. Noel is 3rd to last in that category as well. Highest WAR on the team is Canaan at 143rd overall.


:banghead: stats like these tend to be a little misleading. If people can't see the talent, abilities, and overall potential that Okafor has than they are stubborn haters and nothing more than that. Analytics make my head spin. I'm sure if I actually cared to delve into them I could become more knowledgeable about them. PER seems fairly legit, thing is we didn't need advanced stats and analytics to determine how good a player was twenty years ago. It's not a matter of getting with the times for me, it's more IDGAF what analytics say (wadr), I can usually tell if a player is good by watching them.

The dreaded QBR rating in the NFL is another example. According to that Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady.


Charles Barkley is that you?
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1254 » by SparksFly87 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:19 am

When Embidd is ready I would like to see Okafor transition to PF . I think he will do well guarding PF's once he gets in top condition and it will allow him to expand his game on the offensive end. Our very own Aldridge and Duncan is what I envision as we try to emulate the spurs.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1255 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:52 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
76ers 2020 wrote:The real plus minus numbers aren't kind to Okafor. Last among centers in WAR, the only one in the negatives. 60th out of 63 on DRPM. ORPM he is last among centers. Last in RPM over 2 points behind Bargnani. His ORPM is actually lowest among all players. Surprised a bit by that one. Noel is 3rd to last in that category as well. Highest WAR on the team is Canaan at 143rd overall.


:banghead: stats like these tend to be a little misleading. If people can't see the talent, abilities, and overall potential that Okafor has than they are stubborn haters and nothing more than that. Analytics make my head spin. I'm sure if I actually cared to delve into them I could become more knowledgeable about them. PER seems fairly legit, thing is we didn't need advanced stats and analytics to determine how good a player was twenty years ago. It's not a matter of getting with the times for me, it's more IDGAF what analytics say (wadr), I can usually tell if a player is good by watching them.

The dreaded QBR rating in the NFL is another example. According to that Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady.


Charles Barkley is that you?


Lol, nah, I keep an open mind, I just don't champion that stuff off as all seeing all knowing. Not when Clint Capela has a higher PER than Carmelo Anthony. It does have its uses though, and I certainly think it's an innovative way of evaluating players.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1256 » by 76ciology » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:49 am

aak5fv wrote:
76ciology wrote:
pittsburgh22 wrote:


Could you explain more about how he is improving?(don't worry I think Jah is a stud) I think maybe the Jah haters are just more vocal and people get a twisted picture of how 76ers fans actually feel like about their budding star who is also just a great kid.


Rebounding:
a bit old..
Image

“I’ve seen the rebounding numbers, and I’m not happy with it,” the rookie said. “So I’ve watched film. When we played Cleveland at home, I only had three rebounds. So I asked our strength guy and coach to show me some footage of the rebounding I’m missing and what I’m doing wrong. It was little things. It’s not that I’m not trying. I would box out, but I was boxing out with my arm extended, not like this (forearm along his man). That leads to a stronger base. Those are just the little things I have to get used to.”

Averaged 5.6 rebounds first 5 games, averaging 9.2r/g in his last 10 games.

Defense
Been challenging more shots evident by block numbers. He started with 4 blocks in his first 5 games. Last 10 games? 2.1 blocks per game.Overall, he's actually a really good rim protector when he gives the effort. He's limiting his opponent to 10% less than their average around the rim. It's just that his mistakes in defensive rotations are really bad on eyetest that is making it worse than it seems.

Offense:
- improved jumper
- improved FT%
- more balanced post and face-up game
- lately he's adding some "mix" to his post game, namely that fake passes against Jordan Hill and Whiteside at the post. And I can't remember that possession where he looked like he would go for his usual reverse lay-up but he scored with at the left side of the rim with his left hand anyway.

Also do you feel like the 76ers present situation is hurting Okafor's development? One could actually say that this could light a fire under Jah to try to be even more dominant while addressing his real issues that might have been covered up on a better team like KAT and Minnesota (don't worry I think KAT is a stud too). By the time Okafor has some at least marginal NBA talent around him, he'll be ready to take over the league and will have a desperate need to win since he is in for a lot of losses this year.


No.

Rookie mistakes just looks worse than it seems and the Sixers is letting Jah be a better player by making mistakes. For instance against the Bulls or OKC, they really let Jahlil be relentless on offense to let him feel what works and what not against these good rim protecting teams. And if you read the latest ESPN article about Jah, I wouldn't be surprised if both these games where use as educational videos for jahli for him to adjust his game. And actually, after both these games I saw some counter moves off Jah's usual signature moves that can easily be scouted by the better teams.

Offensively, they are improving his ability to score individually off the post and face-ups. I believe once, K.Marshall returns, that's the time when they'd be developing Jah's "roll game" off PnR, where he's lacking in volume (10% frequency similar to ZBo) but looks promising with his ability to score more points per possession that his post/iso game.

On his def/reb, I thought it was great that Jah took a lot of beating/criticisms with his defense and rebounding in his first 5 games. In the long run, I think letting him make mistakes on that end would make him a better defensive impact player in the future, shown by his rebounding and block numbers in the last 10 games.

His flaws in def/reb is an issue of inexperience and conditioning. But on offense it's an issue of not having the right teammates to compliment him and just his style on offense in general.

Just as another note...I don't think people realize that Hinkie might be the best possible person to develop Okafor. As a stats guy myself, I've read repeatedly on the insane detail to which they are critiquing Okafor on his game. Hinkie might develop a monster.


I think Hinkie and Brett Brown are the best fit for Jah's development. Hinkie's background with analytics and BB's background with Duncan's evolution of his offense and fit with the Spurs system that BB is running would be a tremendous help for Jah.

With Hinkie and his sports science peeps such as the article where one of the staff tracks "Jahlil Okafor Effort", they can determine what parts of Jah's game he needs to change to be more efficient. For me Jahlil's pre-NBA game is obsolete because I don't think it's going to be efficient when you will try to score against guys like Gobert and Whiteside. Hinkie is the guy who can suggest ways for Jah to be a more efficient way in these analytic and modern game of pace and space, such as limiting his post game while having more volume on his PnR, Pick and pop, spot up and Iso. And this was the same evolution that happened in TD/DMC's offense. Where we see TD having more than twice the volume than Jah on rolling to the basket or we saw DMC more than doubling his non-post offense on half court setting, from 4/g in his rookie year to 10/g currently.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1257 » by 76ciology » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:53 am

SparksFly87 wrote:When Embidd is ready I would like to see Okafor transition to PF . I think he will do well guarding PF's once he gets in top condition and it will allow him to expand his game on the offensive end. Our very own Aldridge and Duncan is what I envision as we try to emulate the spurs.


Play PF with Embiid, then play C with a small ball defensive tweener like Jerami Grant could work. Jah is a good individual defender, so I think transitioning from C to PF on defense won't be worse than being a defensive anchor/rim protector which what he's improving at right now.
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1258 » by cksdayoff » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:49 pm

I never thought i'd be happy to see Marshall's return to the lineup. Just for the fact that he can make a simple entry pass to Okafor down low. This is a sad situation to be in
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1259 » by OleSchool » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:55 pm

cksdayoff wrote:I never thought i'd be happy to see Marshall's return to the lineup. Just for the fact that he can make a simple entry pass to Okafor down low. This is a sad situation to be in


When is he playing? Haven't heard about a return date
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Re: Welcome Okafor 

Post#1260 » by cksdayoff » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:59 pm

OleSchool wrote:
cksdayoff wrote:I never thought i'd be happy to see Marshall's return to the lineup. Just for the fact that he can make a simple entry pass to Okafor down low. This is a sad situation to be in


When is he playing? Haven't heard about a return date


Wish i knew. But i hope it's soon
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