Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[sixerswillrule]

His form is actually pretty good.

The fact that he's a left handed shooter who otherwise plays like a right handed player is still so strange. And not just any right handed player, but one that has a below average left.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf6EKfsVg9Y[/youtube]

Lefties don't take the right handed shots that he takes at 2:33, 4:34, 6:00, etc. I don't get it.

[Agnostifarian]

Just watched this video of Givony & Cowherd talking about Ben Simmons. Sounds like Givony has been present at Ben's games going back at least four years. It's not a "hot take."

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/

Dean on Draft admitted to not having watched Simmons play much but suggested his analytical evaluation predicts the possibility that Simmons may be caught between bad shooting and bad defense. Not flattering.

[KG_Wolves]

Take Ingram and don't look back, this Simmons kid is a major project and may not ever come good.

[Negrodamus]

Just watched this video of Givony & Cowherd talking about Ben Simmons. Sounds like Givony has been present at Ben's games going back at least four years. It's not a "hot take."

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/

Dean on Draft admitted to not having watched Simmons play much but suggested his analytical evaluation predicts the possibility that Simmons may be caught between bad shooting and bad defense. Not flattering.

This gets discounted because people feel Givony has a vendetta against Simmons. I agree with him and feel the same way about Simmons. Great prospect, but I'm not comfortable taking him first overall with someone like Ingram in this draft.

[Ericb5]

Just watched this video of Givony & Cowherd talking about Ben Simmons. Sounds like Givony has been present at Ben's games going back at least four years. It's not a "hot take."

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/

Dean on Draft admitted to not having watched Simmons play much but suggested his analytical evaluation predicts the possibility that Simmons may be caught between bad shooting and bad defense. Not flattering.

This gets discounted because people feel Givony has a vendetta against Simmons. I agree with him and feel the same way about Simmons. Great prospect, but I'm not comfortable taking him first overall with someone like Ingram in this draft.

I really don't understand the idea that Ingram and Simmons are in the same tier.

The first tier is for potential franchise players, like Embiid, Towns, and Simmons.

The second tier is for potential all stars like Wiggins, Ingram, Parker, etc...

The third tier is for potential high level starters on good teams like Randle, Smart, Dunn, Russell, etc...

It takes a lot of jujitsu to make it a close comparison between Simmons and Ingram.

NOBODY Is arguing that Ingram is a franchise player. NOBODY.

They are just arguing that he has a high level skill that Simmons doesn't have.

Is there ANYONE on this board that is going to argue that Ingram can be the best player on a contender? The fact that you aren't seeing those arguments is very telling.

What you really have are folks that don't believe in Simmons, more so than believers in Ingram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Agnostifarian]

Just watched this video of Givony & Cowherd talking about Ben Simmons. Sounds like Givony has been present at Ben's games going back at least four years. It's not a "hot take."

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/

Dean on Draft admitted to not having watched Simmons play much but suggested his analytical evaluation predicts the possibility that Simmons may be caught between bad shooting and bad defense. Not flattering.

This gets discounted because people feel Givony has a vendetta against Simmons. I agree with him and feel the same way about Simmons. Great prospect, but I'm not comfortable taking him first overall with someone like Ingram in this draft.

I really don't understand the idea that Ingram and Simmons are in the same tier.

The first tier is for potential franchise players, like Embiid, Towns, and Simmons.

The second tier is for potential all stars like Wiggins, Ingram, Parker, etc...

The third tier is for potential high level starters on good teams like Randle, Smart, Dunn, Russell, etc...

It takes a lot of jujitsu to make it a close comparison between Simmons and Ingram.

NOBODY Is arguing that Ingram is a franchise player. NOBODY.

They are just arguing that he has a high level skill that Simmons doesn't have.

Is there ANYONE on this board that is going to argue that Ingram can be the best player on a contender? The fact that you aren't seeing those arguments is very telling.

What you really have are folks that don't believe in Simmons, more so than believers in Ingram.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Clearly, we are the Defenders of the Flat Earth Society.

[Negrodamus]

Just watched this video of Givony & Cowherd talking about Ben Simmons. Sounds like Givony has been present at Ben's games going back at least four years. It's not a "hot take."

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/

Dean on Draft admitted to not having watched Simmons play much but suggested his analytical evaluation predicts the possibility that Simmons may be caught between bad shooting and bad defense. Not flattering.

This gets discounted because people feel Givony has a vendetta against Simmons. I agree with him and feel the same way about Simmons. Great prospect, but I'm not comfortable taking him first overall with someone like Ingram in this draft.

I really don't understand the idea that Ingram and Simmons are in the same tier.

The first tier is for potential franchise players, like Embiid, Towns, and Simmons.

The second tier is for potential all stars like Wiggins, Ingram, Parker, etc...

The third tier is for potential high level starters on good teams like Randle, Smart, Dunn, Russell, etc...

It takes a lot of jujitsu to make it a close comparison between Simmons and Ingram.

NOBODY Is arguing that Ingram is a franchise player. NOBODY.

They are just arguing that he has a high level skill that Simmons doesn't have.

Is there ANYONE on this board that is going to argue that Ingram can be the best player on a contender? The fact that you aren't seeing those arguments is very telling.

What you really have are folks that don't believe in Simmons, more so than believers in Ingram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's because you see Simmons as a transcendent talent and I don't. Givony just gave a way more detailed and inside look at what Simmons is and what he is not than I, or anyone here, could give. This is a guy that has been watching Simmons since before he was a household name. Saying things like he's afraid of shooting in shootaround because he's afraid of showing his deficiencies? What the hell is that?

He names Lamar Odom as what Simmons is mostly like. That's a really good player. Definitely worth a top 2 pick in this weak draft. A great comparison I saw for Ingram was a longer Danny Granger in his prime before injuries. Is that a top 5 player in the NBA? Nope. Neither is Lamar Odom. I just don't see anyone in the range of KAT or Davis in this draft. It's interesting you put Wiggins in the second tier since he was so incredibly hyped coming into the draft. It's almost as if he didn't live up to the hype. It does happen.

[Unbreakable99]

Take Ingram and don't look back, this Simmons kid is a major project and may not ever come good.

Ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if someone is a major project then I need to ask you where you would rank him in this draft. Where should he be drafted?

[Ericb5]

This gets discounted because people feel Givony has a vendetta against Simmons. I agree with him and feel the same way about Simmons. Great prospect, but I'm not comfortable taking him first overall with someone like Ingram in this draft.

I really don't understand the idea that Ingram and Simmons are in the same tier.

The first tier is for potential franchise players, like Embiid, Towns, and Simmons.

The second tier is for potential all stars like Wiggins, Ingram, Parker, etc...

The third tier is for potential high level starters on good teams like Randle, Smart, Dunn, Russell, etc...

It takes a lot of jujitsu to make it a close comparison between Simmons and Ingram.

NOBODY Is arguing that Ingram is a franchise player. NOBODY.

They are just arguing that he has a high level skill that Simmons doesn't have.

Is there ANYONE on this board that is going to argue that Ingram can be the best player on a contender? The fact that you aren't seeing those arguments is very telling.

What you really have are folks that don't believe in Simmons, more so than believers in Ingram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's because you see Simmons as a transcendent talent and I don't. Givony just gave a way more detailed and inside look at what Simmons is and what he is not than I, or anyone here, could give. This is a guy that has been watching Simmons since before he was a household name. Saying things like he's afraid of shooting in shootaround because he's afraid of showing his deficiencies? What the hell is that?

He names Lamar Odom as what Simmons is mostly like. That's a really good player. Definitely worth a top 2 pick in this weak draft. A great comparison I saw for Ingram was a longer Danny Granger in his prime before injuries. Is that a top 5 player in the NBA? Nope. Neither is Lamar Odom. I just don't see anyone in the range of KAT or Davis in this draft. It's interesting you put Wiggins in the second tier since he was so incredibly hyped coming into the draft. It's almost as if he didn't live up to the hype. It does happen.

You are absolutely correct that I see Simmons as a transcendent talent, and you don't.

That really is the difference between people like you and me, and that is fair.

I obviously disagree with you because I see him as an OBVIOUS superstar prospect on the level of Iverson, Barkley, Towns, or Davis.

He is good enough to be BEYOND the types of quibbles that people like you are making.

There is nothing to be said other than to see how things play out. We are both confident in our positions, but only one of us is right, and only time will tell.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LongLiveHinkie]

Since we've been keeping track of media personalities and who they lean, Doug Gottlieb is Team Simmons big-time. He loves Simmons.

[PhilasFinest]

Who does Drake prefer?

[Kobblehead]

Drake is both a bandwagon Kentucky fan and a Canadian homer. He'd probably be lobbying for Jamal Murray to go #1.

[Unbreakable99]

Read this article on Simmons. Read the tweets that people said about Simmons. Some good info. This article is from last summer though.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/us-sports/ben-simmons-earning-rave-reviews--after-nike-basketball-academy-workout-with-harden-lebron/news-story/8728d72dc0c85ecfc0d038f8bc5d0f3c

Simmons blew away plenty of hardened NBA analysts with his efforts going up against Harden and Davis in particular at the Academy hitout. ESPN’s Jay Bilas, Bleacher Report’s CJ Moore, Full Court Press’ Dinos Trigonis and NBA Draft Express’ Mike Schmitz were among those impressed. SB Nation college hoops writer Russell Steinberg went so far as to say he looked BETTER than Harden during the workout.

“The fact anyone can hold his own defensively against both James Harden and Anthony Davis is impressive. Considering he is doing it at just 18 years old is incredible.

“Here’s a brief recap of Simmons’ time in LA: He guarded Anthony Davis, battled James Harden to a draw, proved he’s the best passer in the building, showed off his defensive potential and did enough to get Jay Bilas to say he has a higher ceiling than Andrew Wiggins. He’s being called the “ultimate modern NBA player” a month after he graduated high school.”

[sixers4real]

I can say only one thing: I'm team Simmons now. It took me a month to change my mind. I want BC to risk and take better upside in Simmons.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Saw this on SI.com, but was too lazy to read it all:

http://www.si.com/longform/brandon-ingram-2016-nba-draft

[anubis0713]

Givony is just pissed he had Labisiere at 1 at the start of the year, showing he has no idea what the hell was going on or who had talent.The kid was a disaster at Kentucky.

All the Ben Simmons having issue as a person off the court were started by him. He said the Australian national teams junior/Senior players though he was too cool for school. And called him the Yank because he was different. Ben was 15 when he won Silver at the under 17 world champs and hadn't even moved to America and he tried out for the Australian senior national team as a 16 year old.

He became you youngest player ever to play for Australia at 17 and 1 month.

So all these concerns about Ben's character have come about from when he was 15 or 16 lol.

[anubis0713]

I hope you don't get offended, but almost all scouting reports i've read says Ingram is a willing and capable passer and has really good ball handling skills for his size. He also did a lot of ISO&PnR which has good Points per possesion numbers.

I do admit Ingram lacks strength and Ingram's freshman stats is lackluster for a number 1 pick.

But i think it's easier for Ingram to add strength than Simmons to be a really good 3pt shooter like Ingram. I also think Ingram had a hard time adjusting with the physicality and the more structured college game and it showed with his horrible 1st month where he had around 5 games of below 40FG%.

If you remove his first month, he'd average around 45FG%, 71FT% (shot 77-78% in HS) and 42.5 3pt%, with good Iso/pnr numbers. He is also said to gain 20lbs, and shows no sign of his strength issue being a red flag than a work in progress.

In his last 15 games Ingram shot 38% from the field and 35% on 9, 2 pt attempts per game.

[Agnostifarian]

I really don't understand the idea that Ingram and Simmons are in the same tier.

The first tier is for potential franchise players, like Embiid, Towns, and Simmons.

The second tier is for potential all stars like Wiggins, Ingram, Parker, etc...

The third tier is for potential high level starters on good teams like Randle, Smart, Dunn, Russell, etc...

It takes a lot of jujitsu to make it a close comparison between Simmons and Ingram.

NOBODY Is arguing that Ingram is a franchise player. NOBODY.

They are just arguing that he has a high level skill that Simmons doesn't have.

Is there ANYONE on this board that is going to argue that Ingram can be the best player on a contender? The fact that you aren't seeing those arguments is very telling.

What you really have are folks that don't believe in Simmons, more so than believers in Ingram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's because you see Simmons as a transcendent talent and I don't. Givony just gave a way more detailed and inside look at what Simmons is and what he is not than I, or anyone here, could give. This is a guy that has been watching Simmons since before he was a household name. Saying things like he's afraid of shooting in shootaround because he's afraid of showing his deficiencies? What the hell is that?

He names Lamar Odom as what Simmons is mostly like. That's a really good player. Definitely worth a top 2 pick in this weak draft. A great comparison I saw for Ingram was a longer Danny Granger in his prime before injuries. Is that a top 5 player in the NBA? Nope. Neither is Lamar Odom. I just don't see anyone in the range of KAT or Davis in this draft. It's interesting you put Wiggins in the second tier since he was so incredibly hyped coming into the draft. It's almost as if he didn't live up to the hype. It does happen.

You are absolutely correct that I see Simmons as a transcendent talent, and you don't.

That really is the difference between people like you and me, and that is fair.

I obviously disagree with you because I see him as an OBVIOUS superstar prospect on the level of Iverson, Barkley, Towns, or Davis.

He is good enough to be BEYOND the types of quibbles that people like you are making.

There is nothing to be said other than to see how things play out. We are both confident in our positions, but only one of us is right, and only time will tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

[Unbreakable99]

That's because you see Simmons as a transcendent talent and I don't. Givony just gave a way more detailed and inside look at what Simmons is and what he is not than I, or anyone here, could give. This is a guy that has been watching Simmons since before he was a household name. Saying things like he's afraid of shooting in shootaround because he's afraid of showing his deficiencies? What the hell is that?

He names Lamar Odom as what Simmons is mostly like. That's a really good player. Definitely worth a top 2 pick in this weak draft. A great comparison I saw for Ingram was a longer Danny Granger in his prime before injuries. Is that a top 5 player in the NBA? Nope. Neither is Lamar Odom. I just don't see anyone in the range of KAT or Davis in this draft. It's interesting you put Wiggins in the second tier since he was so incredibly hyped coming into the draft. It's almost as if he didn't live up to the hype. It does happen.

You are absolutely correct that I see Simmons as a transcendent talent, and you don't.

That really is the difference between people like you and me, and that is fair.

I obviously disagree with you because I see him as an OBVIOUS superstar prospect on the level of Iverson, Barkley, Towns, or Davis.

He is good enough to be BEYOND the types of quibbles that people like you are making.

There is nothing to be said other than to see how things play out. We are both confident in our positions, but only one of us is right, and only time will tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

That is a bad analogy. LeBron still can't shoot well 13 years into his career and look at him. Wade isn't a good 3 point shooter and is a streaky outside shooter. Look at him. They both can create and get to the rim though. If anything Simmons is more like LeBron than AI or Barkley.

[anubis0713]

That's because you see Simmons as a transcendent talent and I don't. Givony just gave a way more detailed and inside look at what Simmons is and what he is not than I, or anyone here, could give. This is a guy that has been watching Simmons since before he was a household name. Saying things like he's afraid of shooting in shootaround because he's afraid of showing his deficiencies? What the hell is that?

He names Lamar Odom as what Simmons is mostly like. That's a really good player. Definitely worth a top 2 pick in this weak draft. A great comparison I saw for Ingram was a longer Danny Granger in his prime before injuries. Is that a top 5 player in the NBA? Nope. Neither is Lamar Odom. I just don't see anyone in the range of KAT or Davis in this draft. It's interesting you put Wiggins in the second tier since he was so incredibly hyped coming into the draft. It's almost as if he didn't live up to the hype. It does happen.

You are absolutely correct that I see Simmons as a transcendent talent, and you don't.

That really is the difference between people like you and me, and that is fair.

I obviously disagree with you because I see him as an OBVIOUS superstar prospect on the level of Iverson, Barkley, Towns, or Davis.

He is good enough to be BEYOND the types of quibbles that people like you are making.

There is nothing to be said other than to see how things play out. We are both confident in our positions, but only one of us is right, and only time will tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

Ben Simmons has won 3 National Championships in 4 years and was finals MVP in 2 of them. How many has Ingram won ,how many game winners have you seen him hit?