2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[cksdayoff]

Fultz is showing everything tonight, my god. Dissecting a zone defense like that. Fricken sick

edit: Huskies are such ass, it's unbelievable. Can't rebound, can't defend. their bigs are trash. Fultz had to take over, brought the team back from 17 down tonight and won it in OT.

37 points, career high. Fultz looked dead tired late in the 2nd half but he kept taking it to Colorado like his life depended on it, always getting into the paint (somehow) and made plays. amazing

[Unbreakable99]

I couldn't disagree more with your perspective on this.

Again, Devin Booker is not a good basketball player. Who cares that he's dropping 20 a game and shooting the ball well? He has a negative BPM on both ends of the floor and he's been a negative VORP player for 2 years now.

I see what you're saying but do you think the Cavs would be more efficient with Love on offense or Josh Jackson? There's something to be said about putting pressure on the defense and stretching then out.

Kevin Love is an elite rebounder who also shoots and is a big. It's not really comparable to an archetype of an all-points wing.

It's hard to say what happens with Josh Jackson, plus again, it's a different thing because it's a guy who plays the 3 or 4 and does lots of other stuff. In addition, nobody wants a non-shooter, but he's not Tony Allen either on offense. He's good with the ball in his hands etc.

I do like Josh Jackson as a prospect. I love defense and value him a lot. I'm looking at fit right now. I think jackson would fit became if you play D you can fit in but we need to surround Simmons with shooters. Putting another no shooter on the court with Simmons woudnt be utilizing him at his best on offense. Sometimes it's ok to get a player who isn't a two way player and isn't that good on defense. It shouldn't wreck our team defense. Simmons our man be pretty good on D. Embiid's is a beast. Covington is good. That's 3 players good on D. You can afford to have a shooter who isn't all that good on defense. Again putting pressure on the defense is essential. Look at the Warriors. They put teams in a bind on defense. They are hard to stop. Even good defenses can't stop them.

[Slizeezyc]

I see what you're saying but do you think the Cavs would be more efficient with Love on offense or Josh Jackson? There's something to be said about putting pressure on the defense and stretching then out.

Kevin Love is an elite rebounder who also shoots and is a big. It's not really comparable to an archetype of an all-points wing.

It's hard to say what happens with Josh Jackson, plus again, it's a different thing because it's a guy who plays the 3 or 4 and does lots of other stuff. In addition, nobody wants a non-shooter, but he's not Tony Allen either on offense. He's good with the ball in his hands etc.

I do like Josh Jackson as a prospect. I love defense and value him a lot. I'm looking at fit right now. I think jackson would fit became if you play D you can fit in but we need to surround Simmons with shooters. Putting another no shooter on the court with Simmons woudnt be utilizing him at his best on offense. Sometimes it's ok to get a player who isn't a two way player and isn't that good on defense. It shouldn't wreck our team defense. Simmons our man be pretty good on D. Embiid's is a beast. Covington is good. That's 3 players good on D. You can afford to have a shooter who isn't all that good on defense. Again putting pressure on the defense is essential. Look at the Warriors. They put teams in a bind on defense. They are hard to stop. Even good defenses can't stop them.

What you're arguing for isn't really the same thing that we're talking about. If you want to bring up the Warriors, it's a bad example. All their guys who play are two-way guys. The one who tries on defense but isn't great (though, I would still argue is better than other guys who get let off the hook more like Westbrook) is Steph Curry. Steph Curry gets to be a special case because he's Steph Curry -- and he does plenty more than just shoot.

The idea of hiding someone on defense functions and makes sense only if that player is actually worth hiding. You hide a Steve Nash because he gives so much (and is the PG). You don't hide a J.R. Smith. He only gets to play in that spot for Cleveland because he shoots AND plays defense now. You don't hide a Kyle Korver, you just don't play him when it counts at this point.

This is a fundamental thing about wings. You have to be so good that your skills are worth the deficiency. With a wing, where the only skill is shooting, that's next to impossible to accomplish. Hence why the surplus value is crap.

The point here is a one-way wing where his ONLY skill is shooting (how special it is, is almost irrelevant) is not going to be worth playing big minutes on a playoff roster that wants to win a title. Again, look at the teams winning titles the past X number of years, who is that one-way player who provides nothing but shooting and plays a lot? I think of a Mike Miller getting some big minutes in a couple games against OKC while with the Heat, and that's probably as close as you get -- even that one is arguable because he's big and they were just switching everything. Late-stage Tony Parker isn't a great defender on the Spurs, but he's a PG and a ball mover rather than a shooter. It's hard to really come up with examples. Even on the best teams now, really try to think about one-way wings who only shoot and play a lot. How many are there? Redick? (who has vastly improved on defense over the years?) You can't be Devin Booker bad on defense and be on a championship-level team.

And, again, this isn't to say Josh Jackson is a perfect fit in Philly, or Devin Booker isn't worth having, it's simply to say that "well offense matters and we can hide him" is only true with very specific caveats.

Beyond that, to point it back at the draft, I think a Malik Monk can do better on defense than he is right now, but if you don't project that, then you just can't pick him that high. His shooting, and how he shoots and gets shots off is legit as all hell. But if you don't believe he can actually learn to defend, then he's going to be an issue rather than a solution (unless you believe there's lots of playmaking left in there as well) -- in that he will end up not getting major minutes in the biggest games. I would rather take a Josh Jackson in that case 10 out of 10 times because he's still going to provide more value even if the fit isn't perfect.

[cksdayoff]

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[zimpy27]

Jayson Tatum might be a realistic get for sixers. Probably fits position wise as they need a backup SF.

[Kolkmania]

OG Anunoby was in tears in the locker room, could be a devastating injury.

[PhilasFinest]

jonathan isaac with 23/10/7 blocks tonight. damn

He is intriguing as hell. The thought of adding Issac to our roster with Simmons/Embiid is something I've been giving a lot of consideration lately (due to us winning more and likely pushing us out of the top 3-4).

6'10" with a 7'1.25" wingspan....38% from 3, smooth & natural jump shot (80.3% FT), rebounds the ball (7.7 RPG) and uses his length to get steals (1.4 spg) and blocks (1.5 big). He has the package and tools to become a matchup nightmare and 2-way wing.

Some people were arguing Brandon Ingram last June being a better prospect then Ben Simmons. I think Issac could be BETTER than Ingram.

Pair that with a 6'10" freak PG/PF like Simmons and 7'2" Embiid and you've got an insane combination of size/skill/versatility. Insert Covington at the 2 spot initially (6'8") and thats some serious length & defensive potential.

Obviously he is not my 1st choice, but barring some blockbuster trade or lucky Cavs like bounce in the lottery...I think we have to start taking much deeper looks at some of these guys as they are seemingly becoming more realistic options for us.

Tatum,Issac,Ntilikina,Fox,Bridges and maybe Monk are the guys we are probably looking at as of now.

Embiid's impact and the teams growth around him is starting to look legit. Simmons has not even come back yet and we are still dancing around with the whole OKafor/Noel thing. Insert even a marginal actual fitting piece via trade along with Simmons and I can't see us being worse then the likes of Brooklyn,Dallas,Miami,Phoenix,LA,Orlando by years end.

[Kobblehead]

If Malik Monk struggles to shoot/score against the length of Dozier and Thornwell on Saturday and looks lost out there on the court, unable to contribute in other areas, I'm REALLY going to sour on him as a prospect. It would confirm all the skepticism I have about that type of player.

[sixerswillrule]

This team with Fultz is a dynasty. Unfortunately it's unlikely we'll be in a position to get him.

If we can end up with Monk and Isaac, we'd be looking really good!

[Negrodamus]

I'm intrigued by Vince Edwards for Purdue. 10.1 BPM, very solid defensively, has a 7'0 wingspan at 6'7, and he does a large amount of the ball handling duties. He also is something like 70% at the rim along with great 3FG% and FT%. Just someone to look at.

[LloydFree]

jonathan isaac with 23/10/7 blocks tonight. damn

He is intriguing as hell. The thought of adding Issac to our roster with Simmons/Embiid is something I've been giving a lot of consideration lately (due to us winning more and likely pushing us out of the top 3-4).

6'10" with a 7'1.25" wingspan....38% from 3, smooth & natural jump shot (80.3% FT), rebounds the ball (7.7 RPG) and uses his length to get steals (1.4 spg) and blocks (1.5 big). He has the package and tools to become a matchup nightmare and 2-way wing.

Some people were arguing Brandon Ingram last June being a better prospect then Ben Simmons. I think Issac could be BETTER than Ingram.

Pair that with a 6'10" freak PG/PF like Simmons and 7'2" Embiid and you've got an insane combination of size/skill/versatility. Insert Covington at the 2 spot initially (6'8") and thats some serious length & defensive potential.

Obviously he is not my 1st choice, but barring some blockbuster trade or lucky Cavs like bounce in the lottery...I think we have to start taking much deeper looks at some of these guys as they are seemingly becoming more realistic options for us.

Tatum,Issac,Ntilikina,Fox,Bridges and maybe Monk are the guys we are probably looking at as of now.

Embiid's impact and the teams growth around him is starting to look legit. Simmons has not even come back yet and we are still dancing around with the whole OKafor/Noel thing. Insert even a marginal actual fitting piece via trade along with Simmons and I can't see us being worse then the likes of Brooklyn,Dallas,Miami,Phoenix,LA,Orlando by years end.

People are really under-rating Isaac as a prospect. And DraftEx is a joke. Barring injury, there is no way that guy is only the 8th best prospect or falls to 8th. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Isaac is a consensus top 3 pick by the time of the draft.

[Kobblehead]

Draft sites are overvaluing the guards and not properly valuing the forwards in this draft.

[ProcessDoctor]

I think Isaac would be awesome to get with our later pick. He's someone we could groom behind Covington until he's NBA ready. Still hoping one of our picks lands in the top 5 for a shot at Ball/Fultz/Jackson.

[Kobblehead]

With Isaac's wingspan and rebounding ability, he might be too good of a PF to play him on the wing. FSU listed him at 210 in the fall. I'd imagine he'll be in the mid-220s by the time the draft comes around. Which is pretty close to ideal stretch four range.

[Kobblehead]

Ersan and Dario have had various degrees of success without contributing on the defensive end. Can you imagine how good we'd be with an actual defender filling that same role?

[Arsenal]

Ersan and Dario have had various degrees of success without contributing on the defensive end. Can you imagine how good we'd be with an actual defender filling that same role?

Good point. If we can't get Isaac, I wouldn't mind trading up from Ersan to Serge Ibaka next summer. Say we sign Ibaka and Holiday, let Ersan walk, and release Henderson and Sergio. Renegotiate/extend Covington. Then resign Noel with Bird Rights. Draft Jackson (via LAL) and Monk (via SAC pick swap).

PG Holiday / Monk / McConnell
SG Jackson / Stauskas / Bayless
SF Simmons / Covington/ Luwawu
PF Ibaka / Saric / ???
CE Embiid / Noel / Holmes

Looks like a strong contender to me.

[No-Man]

I'm intrigued by Vince Edwards for Purdue. 10.1 BPM, very solid defensively, has a 7'0 wingspan at 6'7, and he does a large amount of the ball handling duties. He also is something like 70% at the rim along with great 3FG% and FT%. Just someone to look at.

Like him a lot since last year, he is not all that athletic and can't finish above any athletic guy, but knows how to play and is big.

[Negrodamus]

I wouldn't be upset with Isaac because of the versatility he'd bring to this team. He and Simmons play essentially the same position defensively but provide different attributes on both ends which would allow them to play together. Additionally, if we keep Noel, Simmons and Isaac work very nicely with him as well.

Ideally, we'd be able to draft one of Fultz or Smith and grab Isaac with the second pick.

[PhilasFinest]

Ersan and Dario have had various degrees of success without contributing on the defensive end. Can you imagine how good we'd be with an actual defender filling that same role?

Good point. If we can't get Isaac, I wouldn't mind trading up from Ersan to Serge Ibaka next summer. Say we sign Ibaka and Holiday, let Ersan walk, and release Henderson and Sergio. Renegotiate/extend Covington. Then resign Noel with Bird Rights. Draft Jackson (via LAL) and Monk (via SAC pick swap).

PG Holiday / Monk / McConnell
SG Jackson / Stauskas / Bayless
SF Simmons / Covington/ Luwawu
PF Ibaka / Saric / ???
CE Embiid / Noel / Holmes

Looks like a strong contender to me.

Signing Holiday and Ibaka to monster deals during this stretch of inflated cap due to the TV money is something I'm not really interested in doing.If you were to do all of what your saying, All of a sudden your pretty much locked in financially. Your likely limiting retaining all these high 1st rounders and trying too quickly to make something happen IMO unless these guys are coming in on 2 years deals, which I cant imagine.

Noel being resigned is going to coast you probably at least 20M per.
Holiday is netting a BIG deal. 25+M per
Ibaka is netting a BIG deal. 25+M per
Covington is going to command a pay day. Likely some type of Allen Crabbe like money. (15-18M per) His defense is amongst the tops in terms of wing defenders and he's a volume 3 point shooter. Teams will covet that and someone like Brooklyn will throw money at him because they will be sitting on a ton of it.

Do that math. Thats roughly 85-90M right there in contracts handed out to 4 guys. None whom are really your franchises "core" pieces.

Then factor in Embiid will be up for a monster, max extension the following off-season (likely will attempt to do it sooner). And thats around 115 M just in 5 players. All of this and Simmons is still on a rookie deal, Saric, etc etc.

Anyways, this is really deviating from Thread.....but I think we need to stay the course and continue to grow from within. Im fine with adding A piece via FA or some decent role player fits, but essentially maxing out guys like Jrue/Ibaka just seems like a reach to me.

[Kolkmania]

Think Kentucky's game against Mississippi State shows exactly why I'm reluctant to draft Malik Monk. If his shot doesn't fall the kid is a big negative on both ends of the floor. He still didn't drive, showed he lacks playmaking ability with some poor turnovers, forcing tough two-pointers and made some very poor decisions defensively which costed them FT's.