Nerlens traded

[youngcrev]

That being said. I disagree that we could just extend him to a near max contract and trade him later. That just doesn't work especially considering the role Noel would play if staying with us. Just see the case of Allen Crabee.

Eh. I think a lot of teams would be fine with paying Nerlens that type money. With Crabbe, you had a situation where a guy got more than was expected and now has a trade kicker on top of that.

[ankle420breaker]

If Nerleans wasn't already on the team he'd be getting little to no consideration from us in free agency. When you tie in his desire to start then the scenario of signing him to a max deal to backup Embiid is us essentially jamming a square peg into a round hole.

There's definitely some merit to the argument that we can afford him and that he's nice insurance for Embiid, but it's difficult to overlook the concerns with committing so much long term $ to the center spot, especially with Nerlens clearly prefering a starting position to a reserve role.

All that being said, the return BC brought back for him is so deeply unimpressive. We may as well have held onto him through the end of the season and tested the market for him as a RFA while exploring our own FA targets.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[PLO]

The recent Lowe pod pointed to an organisational inefficiency (a bit of a euphamism) within the 6ers. There seems to be A: factions within the organisation thatlook to be competing and B: a detrimental lag between Colangelo getting a trade to the "going to happen" stage and ownership OKing the trade. BC is going to wear a lot of criticism because he's the face of the FO and I guess at the end of the day its up to him to organise things so they go much more smoothly, but its a bit hard when its ownership holding up things and there are entrenched factions in the organisation who perhaps have a different view on trades/decisions who have ownership's ear.

So while its true the lack of return for Noel is down to the marketplace, its also likely that several trades were probably nixed because BC didn't get the OK from the owners in time. The fact the Noel trade does look like a bit of a rushed panic trade after several other opportunities were missed indicates to me that there's quite a bit of meat to this situation as alluded to in the Lowe pod.

[the_process]

The recent Lowe pod pointed to an organisational inefficiency (a bit of a euphamism) within the 6ers. There seems to be A: factions within the organisation thatlook to be competing and B: a detrimental lag between Colangelo getting a trade to the "going to happen" stage and ownership OKing the trade. BC is going to wear a lot of criticism because he's the face of the FO and I guess at the end of the day its up to him to organise things so they go much more smoothly, but its a bit hard when its ownership holding up things and there are entrenched factions in the organisation who perhaps have a different view on trades/decisions who have ownership's ear.

So while its true the lack of return for Noel is down to the marketplace, its also likely that several trades were probably nixed because BC didn't get the OK from the owners in time. The fact the Noel trade does look like a bit of a rushed panic trade after several other opportunities were missed indicates to me that there's quite a bit of meat to this situation as alluded to in the Lowe pod.

This is why you need one owner and not an ownership group. The whole Danny Ferry situation was because of the Hawks ownership group infighting.

Anyway, the win now section is clearly Scott O'Neil, who wants to have a product to peddle to the masses.

[Simmons25]

If Nerleans wasn't already on the team he'd be getting little to no consideration from us in free agency. When you tie in his desire to start then the scenario of signing him to a max deal to backup Embiid is us essentially jamming a square peg into a round hole.

And that is exactly how it should be looked at.

If we didn't have Nerlens on our roster... would we pay $20 mill to get him as a stater from another team and have him sit on the bench for us? No of course not. Everyone would be losing their mind over that signing.

[PLO]

The recent Lowe pod pointed to an organisational inefficiency (a bit of a euphamism) within the 6ers. There seems to be A: factions within the organisation thatlook to be competing and B: a detrimental lag between Colangelo getting a trade to the "going to happen" stage and ownership OKing the trade. BC is going to wear a lot of criticism because he's the face of the FO and I guess at the end of the day its up to him to organise things so they go much more smoothly, but its a bit hard when its ownership holding up things and there are entrenched factions in the organisation who perhaps have a different view on trades/decisions who have ownership's ear.

So while its true the lack of return for Noel is down to the marketplace, its also likely that several trades were probably nixed because BC didn't get the OK from the owners in time. The fact the Noel trade does look like a bit of a rushed panic trade after several other opportunities were missed indicates to me that there's quite a bit of meat to this situation as alluded to in the Lowe pod.

This is why you need one owner and not an ownership group. The whole Danny Ferry situation was because of the Hawks ownership group infighting.

Anyway, the win now section is clearly Scott O'Neil, who wants to have a product to peddle to the masses.

This situation sucks; I really hope it doesn't interfere with our draft, though if the owners interfered in the Oakafor draft there's precedent. Really hope that didn't happen though. If the lack of streamlining of the decision making process interfered with our trade period obviously something has to change.

[Kolkmania]

We could have afforded a max deal for Noel at this point. However in three years the 25 million dollars should be spent at adding perimeter players rather than a backup center.
So is Noel tradeable with a max contract in two years? That was the million dollar question imo and it's a hard one. Purely based on talent and his skill set in the modern NBA, I do think he would be worth something more than Justin Anderson + two second round picks.
However, if he made a clear statement that he will not accept a bench role then I can understand the trade made. In that case BC's bluff was called and he was outplayed, resulting in an extremely underwhelming return.

[HartfordWhalers]

The trade sucked. The trade still sucks.

[hookshot199]

Would the max offer from another team only be three year maximum?

No. It would have been for four. So we would have been left scrambling and probably paid luxury tax in Year Four. But if we were contending, what difference would it have made?

This is just such a waste - to give him away. The only silver lining. We didn't give him to Boston. At least we can root for him and Mark Cuban.

That's what I thought but wasn't sure with the new CBA.

I think it is more a cap space issue than a luxury tax issue. Next summer, they will likely have to sign Embiid, Cov, while Bayless and Ben will combine to make about 15 million that summer. Also, they may try to add some players via free agency and trade this summer. I think they don't want Nerlens $20+ mill adding to that figure and wasting a quarter of their cap space, just to be a backup. I think they want to have some serious flexibility in free agency, and likely view that cap space as more valuable than what they could get by matching a Nerlens offer and trading him.

This was the arithmetic had we not given Noel away for nothing. Even if Colangelo would have succeeded in stealing a free agent guard like Jrue or had to match slightly higher than 4 years/$72 mil for Noel or slightly more than I've estimated or Robert Covington and TJ, we would have been under the $136 mil project 2019/2029 luxury tax with 14 roster spots filled.

I'm guessing 6 picks for the Sixes 2017, Lakers 2018 and Sacramento 2019. They could be better.

Bayless, Henderson, Stauskas gone. Holmes probably gone for a future second-round pick.


2019-2020 payroll estimate

1) Noel: $18
2) Embiid: $25
3) Covington: $15
4) TJ: $12
5) Simmons: $8.1
6) Saric: $3.5
7) 2017 Sixers pick: $4.0
8) 2018 Lakers pick: $4.0
9) 2018 Sixers pick: $3.0
10) 2019 Sacramento pick: $3.5
11) Luwawu: $2.6
14) Kormaz: $2.5
13) Okafor replacement: $6.0
14) Jrue or other free agent: $22

Tota: $129 mil

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/04/15/nba-salary-cap-higher-than-projections/83095482/


Stauskas
Bayless
Okaor

[kukenotas]

What we will say if noel resign woth any team for 17 mil a year. Whats then?

Sent from my LG-H811 using RealGM mobile app

[the_process]

2019-2020 payroll estimate

1) Noel: $18
2) Embiid: $25
3) Covington: $15
4) TJ: $12
5) Simmons: $8.1
6) Saric: $3.5
7) 2017 Sixers pick: $4.0
8) 2018 Lakers pick: $4.0
9) 2018 Sixers pick: $3.0
10) 2019 Sacramento pick: $3.5
11) Luwawu: $2.6
14) Kormaz: $2.5
13) Okafor replacement: $6.0
14) Jrue or other free agent: $22

Tota: $129 mil

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/04/15/nba-salary-cap-higher-than-projections/83095482/


Stauskas
Bayless
Okaor

In what world is TJ McConnell worth $12M?

[bobsquad]

Been meaning to visit this board to post about Anderson.

JA has been in Carlisle's doghouse mostly because he turns the ball over too much, which is basically a nail in your coffin playing in RC's system. Now, you won't see this in the stats because despite his high USG%, he wasn't used much as a ballhandler. His summer league stats (3.6 TO/36), when he was let a bit more loose, tell more of the story.

Inability to handle the ball would be forgivable for most coaches if he were a great catch-and-shoot player, but he's not, sporting a god awful 44.7% EFG on catch-and-shoots this season. And that's an improvement on last season.

His shooting has always been an area of concern because he shot under 30% from deep his first two college seasons. His junior year % of .452 is looking more like an anomaly.

His defense was a plus last year, but this year he was outplayed by Dorian Finney-Smith pretty early on.

I was in favor of trading him, more than most. If you can't handle the ball... and you can't shoot... and your defense isn't as good as an UDFA rookie's... then you're out of a spot.

There are some positives, though. He has quite a bit more potential than most 23 year olds because he's an athletic freak. He puts a lot of effort getting rebounds and does well for his size. If his shooting ever develops, he could be a starting-caliber wing. Same goes if he takes his defense to the next level.

We had high hopes for him after his performance in last season's playoffs. I hope he's able to develop in Philadelphia because he wasn't going to get much of a chance here.

[hookshot199]

2019-2020 payroll estimate

1) Noel: $18
2) Embiid: $25
3) Covington: $15
4) TJ: $12
5) Simmons: $8.1
6) Saric: $3.5
7) 2017 Sixers pick: $4.0
8) 2018 Lakers pick: $4.0
9) 2018 Sixers pick: $3.0
10) 2019 Sacramento pick: $3.5
11) Luwawu: $2.6
14) Kormaz: $2.5
13) Okafor replacement: $6.0
14) Jrue or other free agent: $22

Tota: $129 mil

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/04/15/nba-salary-cap-higher-than-projections/83095482/

Stauskas
Bayless
Okaor

In what world is TJ McConnell worth $12M?

I'm trying to give a worst-case scenario - that signing Noel wouldn't have put us at risk for paying luxury tax until Year 4 of his contract. Re TJ, Matthew Dellavedova signed for around $9-$9.5 mil/year. If you prefer I estimate $10 mil, fine. We're down to $127 mil.

[phifans]

PJ Tucker should be a realistic comparation for JA to reach.

[the_process]

2019-2020 payroll estimate

1) Noel: $18
2) Embiid: $25
3) Covington: $15
4) TJ: $12
5) Simmons: $8.1
6) Saric: $3.5
7) 2017 Sixers pick: $4.0
8) 2018 Lakers pick: $4.0
9) 2018 Sixers pick: $3.0
10) 2019 Sacramento pick: $3.5
11) Luwawu: $2.6
14) Kormaz: $2.5
13) Okafor replacement: $6.0
14) Jrue or other free agent: $22

Tota: $129 mil

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/04/15/nba-salary-cap-higher-than-projections/83095482/

Stauskas
Bayless
Okaor

In what world is TJ McConnell worth $12M?

I'm trying to give a worst-case scenario - that signing Noel wouldn't have put us at risk for paying luxury tax until Year 4 of his contract. Re TJ, Matthew Dellavedova signed for around $9-$9.5 mil/year. If you prefer I estimate $10 mil, fine. We're down to $127 mil.

Delly signed that deal to be a starter for Milwaukee. The Sixers aren't ever starting TJ after this year. They will possibly both draft and sign a PG this summer; and even if they only do one, Bayless is still coming back. So that makes TJ 3rd string, and if he is still here 3 years from now, I would estimate his salary in an absolute max overpay scenario as more like 5M. More realistic would be like 3.33M (3 yr-10M deal).

[Sixerscan]

In what world is TJ McConnell worth $12M?

I'm trying to give a worst-case scenario - that signing Noel wouldn't have put us at risk for paying luxury tax until Year 4 of his contract. Re TJ, Matthew Dellavedova signed for around $9-$9.5 mil/year. If you prefer I estimate $10 mil, fine. We're down to $127 mil.

Delly signed that deal to be a starter for Milwaukee. The Sixers aren't ever starting TJ after this year. They will possibly both draft and sign a PG this summer; and even if they only do one, Bayless is still coming back. So that makes TJ 3rd string, and if he is still here 3 years from now, I would estimate his salary in an absolute max overpay scenario as more like 5M. More realistic would be like 3.33M (3 yr-10M deal).

You're sort of missing the point by arguing this.

[TTP]

I think TJ will get more than 3-10. He's grading really well right now and his underlying numbers are really solid - an extremely high assist to turnover ratio, great midrange shooting percentages, grading very well as a perimeter defender, etc. I think he plays either ahead of (or with) Bayless next year.

[hookshot199]

I'm trying to give a worst-case scenario - that signing Noel wouldn't have put us at risk for paying luxury tax until Year 4 of his contract. Re TJ, Matthew Dellavedova signed for around $9-$9.5 mil/year. If you prefer I estimate $10 mil, fine. We're down to $127 mil.

Delly signed that deal to be a starter for Milwaukee. The Sixers aren't ever starting TJ after this year. They will possibly both draft and sign a PG this summer; and even if they only do one, Bayless is still coming back. So that makes TJ 3rd string, and if he is still here 3 years from now, I would estimate his salary in an absolute max overpay scenario as more like 5M. More realistic would be like 3.33M (3 yr-10M deal).

You're sort of missing the point by arguing this.

Thank you. Again, we're in the realm of 'what-ifs'. Noel is gone forever because of an idiot. Colangelo got nothing for him, for a player who has potential to be an all-defensive first team player. They money argument didn't matter until Year Four. Once he moved Ilyasova (a good move), we could have built in a close-to-max free agent. With no penalty until 2020/2021.

Anyway, I'm happy for Noel. He'll flourish in Dallas, and several years from now we'll put this trade slightly below Wilt for nothing, Moses for damaged goods, Barkley for nothing, and Iverson for nothing.

The only silver lining to the trade is if we get a three or four pick in the draft, rather than an eight or nine pick, and that player turns into Jackson, Isaac, Fox or Smith who could all be all stars.

It's possible that Colangelo's tank will work. We weren't going to be a bottom dweller. We now have a chance.

[Kolkmania]

2019-2020 payroll estimate

1) Noel: $18
2) Embiid: $25
3) Covington: $15
4) TJ: $12
5) Simmons: $8.1
6) Saric: $3.5
7) 2017 Sixers pick: $4.0
8) 2018 Lakers pick: $4.0
9) 2018 Sixers pick: $3.0
10) 2019 Sacramento pick: $3.5
11) Luwawu: $2.6
14) Kormaz: $2.5
13) Okafor replacement: $6.0
14) Jrue or other free agent: $22

Tota: $129 mil

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/04/15/nba-salary-cap-higher-than-projections/83095482/

Stauskas
Bayless
Okaor

In what world is TJ McConnell worth $12M?

I'm trying to give a worst-case scenario - that signing Noel wouldn't have put us at risk for paying luxury tax until Year 4 of his contract. Re TJ, Matthew Dellavedova signed for around $9-$9.5 mil/year. If you prefer I estimate $10 mil, fine. We're down to $127 mil.

18 million dollar for Nerlens Noel is not a worst-case scenario at all, there was always the risk someone would offer a 25 million dollar contract.

[kriss73]

Like Harden a couple of years ago, Noel wanted a chance to start and shine.
It's not matter of $ , it's matter of role.
We all have simply ti deal with it.
Trade was awful (package, timing) but necessary .