Thoughts on Jahlil Okafor?

[TTP]

Ideally, we get 4-5 Embiid level talent with our tanked top 3 picks.

Realistically, there will be fallouts that will turn into sunk costs.

Deep inside, with a superteam type set-up (championship or bust built), most of us knew that out of the three centers we draft, only one will stay (i was stubborn with this). The two? They will turn into assets.

We LIKELY won't get a star, superstar or good draft picks for the two fallout centers. What's the next best thing? 3&D wings. They are plug and play. If theY turn out well and be like RoCo, Crowder or Bazemore then you can win big. If just average, they'll always have their place in anytime like a Joe Ingles, Kyle Anderson, Harkless, Turner, PJ Tucker or Crabbe?

Here's the thing. 3&D wings and centers are oversupplied in the league. Teams won't give much for them but most are willing to exchange one for the other.

I don't think 3 and D wings are oversupplied. Several of the guys you listed (Harkless, Turner, Crabbe) don't even satisfy both of the two requirements to being a 3 and D wing - being at least league average at both 3 point shooting and defense. They're just wings (though Crabbe probably has the tools to eventually be a positive on both ends). I also don't think Bazemore is deserving of being listed in the same tier as Crowder and Covington.

I also don't think you can really have too many 3 and D wings. Ideally you have at least two of them on the court at a time, and the nature of the archetype means that they can be slotted into just about any lineup, making for smoother player rotations. Given the contracts we've seen given to mediocre guys like Crabbe and Bazemore, it seems demand still far exceeds supply. Otto Porter is also in the elite tier and is going to get a max contract.

I agree that the opposite seems to be true for centers though. There's a massive oversupply as the demand for bigs has decreased as teams go smaller more frequently and few teams run two big lineups.

[SelfishPlayer]

We still have yet to see Okafor play with quality NBA guards. The Houston Rockets and Wizards aren't concerned with the midrange jumpshooting and floor spacing abilities of their starting centers. Okafor is offensively more talented than both of them and he's a backup here. I believe that he would develop better if he played with Harden or Wall over TJ.

[76ciology]

Ideally, we get 4-5 Embiid level talent with our tanked top 3 picks.

Realistically, there will be fallouts that will turn into sunk costs.

Deep inside, with a superteam type set-up (championship or bust built), most of us knew that out of the three centers we draft, only one will stay (i was stubborn with this). The two? They will turn into assets.

We LIKELY won't get a star, superstar or good draft picks for the two fallout centers. What's the next best thing? 3&D wings. They are plug and play. If theY turn out well and be like RoCo, Crowder or Bazemore then you can win big. If just average, they'll always have their place in anytime like a Joe Ingles, Kyle Anderson, Harkless, Turner, PJ Tucker or Crabbe?

Here's the thing. 3&D wings and centers are oversupplied in the league. Teams won't give much for them but most are willing to exchange one for the other.

I don't think 3 and D wings are oversupplied. Several of the guys you listed (Harkless, Turner, Crabbe) don't even satisfy both of the two requirements to being a 3 and D wing - being at least league average at both 3 point shooting and defense. They're just wings (though Crabbe probably has the tools to eventually be a positive on both ends). I also don't think Bazemore is deserving of being listed in the same tier as Crowder and Covington.

I also don't think you can really have too many 3 and D wings. Ideally you have at least two of them on the court at a time, and the nature of the archetype means that they can be slotted into just about any lineup, making for smoother player rotations. Given the contracts we've seen given to mediocre guys like Crabbe and Bazemore, it seems demand still far exceeds supply. Otto Porter is also in the elite tier and is going to get a max contract.

I agree that the opposite seems to be true for centers though. There's a massive oversupply as the demand for bigs has decreased as teams go smaller more frequently and few teams run two big lineups.

Yeah, I may have gone a bit far with Crabbe. Harkless was shooting OK on 3s in regular season (but gone 16% in playoffs) while Turner played great D in playoffs and shot 33% on 3s. Aminu is another guys from that Blazers roster. Yup, all three are shaky 3&D maybe a lower tier class.

Supply of a upper tier 3&D are few and high in demand. But the lower tier ones like the guys I've mentioned are not that few and with some player development and time they can move up just like most guys in the upper tier.

While I also agree that 3&D wings > centers.

Other guys looking to be on the rise are Oubre and Taureen Prince.

[TTP]

Ideally, we get 4-5 Embiid level talent with our tanked top 3 picks.

Realistically, there will be fallouts that will turn into sunk costs.

Deep inside, with a superteam type set-up (championship or bust built), most of us knew that out of the three centers we draft, only one will stay (i was stubborn with this). The two? They will turn into assets.

We LIKELY won't get a star, superstar or good draft picks for the two fallout centers. What's the next best thing? 3&D wings. They are plug and play. If theY turn out well and be like RoCo, Crowder or Bazemore then you can win big. If just average, they'll always have their place in anytime like a Joe Ingles, Kyle Anderson, Harkless, Turner, PJ Tucker or Crabbe?

Here's the thing. 3&D wings and centers are oversupplied in the league. Teams won't give much for them but most are willing to exchange one for the other.

I don't think 3 and D wings are oversupplied. Several of the guys you listed (Harkless, Turner, Crabbe) don't even satisfy both of the two requirements to being a 3 and D wing - being at least league average at both 3 point shooting and defense. They're just wings (though Crabbe probably has the tools to eventually be a positive on both ends). I also don't think Bazemore is deserving of being listed in the same tier as Crowder and Covington.

I also don't think you can really have too many 3 and D wings. Ideally you have at least two of them on the court at a time, and the nature of the archetype means that they can be slotted into just about any lineup, making for smoother player rotations. Given the contracts we've seen given to mediocre guys like Crabbe and Bazemore, it seems demand still far exceeds supply. Otto Porter is also in the elite tier and is going to get a max contract.

I agree that the opposite seems to be true for centers though. There's a massive oversupply as the demand for bigs has decreased as teams go smaller more frequently and few teams run two big lineups.

Yeah, I may have gone a bit far with Crabbe. Harkless was shooting OK on 3s in regular season (but gone 16% in playoffs) while Turner played great D in playoffs and shot 33% on 3s. Aminu is another guys from that Blazers roster. Yup, all three are shaky 3&D maybe a lower tier class.

Supply of a upper tier 3&D are few and high in demand. But the lower tier ones like the guys I've mentioned are not that few and with some player development and time they can move up just like most guys in the upper tier.

While I also agree that 3&D wings > centers.

Other guys looking to be on the rise are Oubre and Taureen Prince.

I still like Crabbe, perhaps irrationally. He's clearly an elite shooter and he has a pretty huge wingspan. Maybe someday he'll figure it out defensively and be a lot more valuable.

Harkless 3 point percentage is small sample size fool's gold. I doubt he's anywhere near league average from 3 going forward. He's still a valuable player in other ways.

I strongly disagree with the bolded classification though. They're wings, just not 3 and D wings. If you start calling them shaky 3 and D, then what wings aren't 3 and D? Guys that do more? Evan Turner does a lot of creating and is horrific from 3 (he's sub 30% career over a decent sample - I'm not using a 15 shot single playoff sample). He's more of a playmaker or versatile wing.

[Highfive]

I have a contract question:

Could a player like Okafor go overseas for a year (Europe, China, Australia, etc) where he could play full time... and then return the following season? And... if he could, would we still own his rights?

[76ciology]

I have a contract question:

Could a player like Okafor go overseas for a year (Europe, China, Australia, etc) where he could play full time... and then return the following season? And... if he could, would we still own his rights?

I thought you were wondering if he can have an australian accent or speak chinese after a year overseas, which when you think about it maybe a better question

[Sixerscan]

Ideally, we get 4-5 Embiid level talent with our tanked top 3 picks.

Realistically, there will be fallouts that will turn into sunk costs.

Deep inside, with a superteam type set-up (championship or bust built), most of us knew that out of the three centers we draft, only one will stay (i was stubborn with this). The two? They will turn into assets.

We LIKELY won't get a star, superstar or good draft picks for the two fallout centers. What's the next best thing? 3&D wings. They are plug and play. If theY turn out well and be like RoCo, Crowder or Bazemore then you can win big. If just average, they'll always have their place in anytime like a Joe Ingles, Kyle Anderson, Harkless, Turner, PJ Tucker or Crabbe?

Here's the thing. 3&D wings and centers are oversupplied in the league. Teams won't give much for them but most are willing to exchange one for the other.

I don't think 3 and D wings are oversupplied. Several of the guys you listed (Harkless, Turner, Crabbe) don't even satisfy both of the two requirements to being a 3 and D wing - being at least league average at both 3 point shooting and defense. They're just wings (though Crabbe probably has the tools to eventually be a positive on both ends). I also don't think Bazemore is deserving of being listed in the same tier as Crowder and Covington.

I also don't think you can really have too many 3 and D wings. Ideally you have at least two of them on the court at a time, and the nature of the archetype means that they can be slotted into just about any lineup, making for smoother player rotations. Given the contracts we've seen given to mediocre guys like Crabbe and Bazemore, it seems demand still far exceeds supply. Otto Porter is also in the elite tier and is going to get a max contract.

I agree that the opposite seems to be true for centers though. There's a massive oversupply as the demand for bigs has decreased as teams go smaller more frequently and few teams run two big lineups.

Yeah, I may have gone a bit far with Crabbe. Harkless was shooting OK on 3s in regular season (but gone 16% in playoffs) while Turner played great D in playoffs and shot 33% on 3s. Aminu is another guys from that Blazers roster. Yup, all three are shaky 3&D maybe a lower tier class.

Supply of a upper tier 3&D are few and high in demand. But the lower tier ones like the guys I've mentioned are not that few and with some player development and time they can move up just like most guys in the upper tier.

While I also agree that 3&D wings > centers.

Other guys looking to be on the rise are Oubre and Taureen Prince.

Calling turner a 3&d wing because he shot slightly below average for 4 games is, just wow, and regardless him and Crabbe are each making over $15 million a year, which would indicate that they are a little harder to find than you might believe.

You can't just call anyone that takes 3 point shots or occasionally plays defense a 3&D guy. Those Portland guys have various holes in their games that got exposed in the playoffs. That's kind of the point, an actual 3&D guy is sort of a cheat code in that being above average in both of those things allows an otherwise limited player to stay on the floor against good teams.

[76ciology]

I don't think 3 and D wings are oversupplied. Several of the guys you listed (Harkless, Turner, Crabbe) don't even satisfy both of the two requirements to being a 3 and D wing - being at least league average at both 3 point shooting and defense. They're just wings (though Crabbe probably has the tools to eventually be a positive on both ends). I also don't think Bazemore is deserving of being listed in the same tier as Crowder and Covington.

I also don't think you can really have too many 3 and D wings. Ideally you have at least two of them on the court at a time, and the nature of the archetype means that they can be slotted into just about any lineup, making for smoother player rotations. Given the contracts we've seen given to mediocre guys like Crabbe and Bazemore, it seems demand still far exceeds supply. Otto Porter is also in the elite tier and is going to get a max contract.

I agree that the opposite seems to be true for centers though. There's a massive oversupply as the demand for bigs has decreased as teams go smaller more frequently and few teams run two big lineups.

Yeah, I may have gone a bit far with Crabbe. Harkless was shooting OK on 3s in regular season (but gone 16% in playoffs) while Turner played great D in playoffs and shot 33% on 3s. Aminu is another guys from that Blazers roster. Yup, all three are shaky 3&D maybe a lower tier class.

Supply of a upper tier 3&D are few and high in demand. But the lower tier ones like the guys I've mentioned are not that few and with some player development and time they can move up just like most guys in the upper tier.

While I also agree that 3&D wings > centers.

Other guys looking to be on the rise are Oubre and Taureen Prince.

Calling turner a 3&d wing because he shot slightly below average for 4 games is, just wow, and regardless him and Crabbe are each making over $15 million a year, which would indicate that they are a little harder to find than you might believe.

You can't just call anyone that takes 3 point shots or occasionally plays defense a 3&D guy. Those Portland guys have various holes in their games that got exposed in the playoffs. That's kind of the point, an actual 3&D guy is sort of a cheat code in that being above average in both of those things allows an otherwise limited player to stay on the floor against good teams.

Yup my bad those PTB wings sucks

[rzzzzz]

all prognostication and criticism remain flyspecks until we get something definite about the guy's health. if his knee remains suspect, he's pretty worthless. if the expectation is (eventual) full recovery, THEN we can argue about fit, trade, development, etc. (as far as our last three top picks finishing the season in street clothes...)

[Unbreakable99]

all prognostication and criticism remain flyspecks until we get something definite about the guy's health. if his knee remains suspect, he's pretty worthless. if the expectation is (eventual) full recovery, THEN we can argue about fit, trade, development, etc. (as far as our last three top picks finishing the season in street clothes...)

Okafor is worthless for us if he is not healthy and if he is healthy. Regardless we have no use for him. He should not be on the team next year taking up a roster spot we can give to guys who can help us.

[NatiboyB]

I really think that one day Jahlil will be traded to a new situation and in that situation he will be successful

[Ericb5]

I really think that one day Jahlil will be traded to a new situation and in that situation he will be successful

Me too.

That being said, he is irrelevant here.


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[AdotSmoove]

I really think that one day Jahlil will be traded to a new situation and in that situation he will be successful

Just think happy thoughts. Just think happy thoughts.


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[Simmons25]

I have a contract question:

Could a player like Okafor go overseas for a year (Europe, China, Australia, etc) where he could play full time... and then return the following season? And... if he could, would we still own his rights?

I am pretty sure that can be done.

Immediate one that came to mind is James Ennis was drafted by Miami Heat out of College... but was then sent to Australia to play for the Perth Wildcats in his first season. He could actually have been called back to the Heat at any time during that season and I remember at one point he had the opportunity to go back to the Heat but decided to stay in Perth and won the Championship, MVP etc.

Same during the NBA lockout season a few years back where half the season was lost. Patty Mills was released by the Spurs to come back and play in Australia and when the lockout ended was on the first plane back to the NBA.

Andrew Bogut was also going to play in Australia during the NBA lockout but in the end they couldn't find an insurance company that could cover his salary... so it never eventuated.

So I can't see any reason why it couldn't be done.

[Simmons25]

I really think that one day Jahlil will be traded to a new situation and in that situation he will be successful

If he is the starting 5 for that team... you can guarantee they won't be a Championship level or even Eastern/Western conference finals team.

So I guess it comes down to how you define being "successful"

[76ciology]

Two futures for Okafor

1.) traded on draft night for a late first
2.) traded during season for a wing

[Unbreakable99]

Two futures for Okafor

1.) traded on draft night for a late second
2.) cut if not traded by start of season

Fixed.

[76ciology]

Two futures for Okafor

1.) traded on draft night for a late second
2.) cut if not traded by start of season

Fixed.

Hahaha aint gonna argue with you on that

[the_process]

Two futures for Okafor

1.) traded on draft night for a late second
2.) cut if not traded by start of season

Fixed.

I still think there are enough people in the league that remember Okafor's draft grades, and both think the Sixers tanking ruined him and that they are the right ones to fix him, who would be willing to give up more than just a late 2nd.

I would bet the only reason he's even still here now is because BC overvalued him at the deadline.

[rzzzzz]

I still think there are enough people in the league that remember Okafor's draft grades, and both think the Sixers tanking ruined him and that they are the right ones to fix him, who would be willing to give up more than just a late 2nd.

I would bet the only reason he's even still here now is because BC overvalued him at the deadline.

among those rumored interested in him when he was drafted were Flip, Phil, Danny, Pops and Pat. if he was healthy, i think 3 of them would be willing to risk a roster spot if they got him for next to nothing. probably Chicago as well. maybe even the Lakers. but no one is giving up anything valuable for him in the upcoming draft.