German National Football Team Thread (Nationalmannschaft)

cgf · Post #261 » by **cgf** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:30 pm

I'm not sure what's worse. Implying that Matthaus was the best german midfielder of all time, or outright calling Ballack the second best. *sigh*

And I say this as someone biased towards Ballack as one of the last great DDR born stars, who's NT jersey I still have in my closest.

Foye · Post #262 » by **Foye** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:03 pm

It was a damn shame that Ballack and Kahn played in an era with relatively little talent surrounding them.

No_20 · Post #263 » by **No_20** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:26 pm

cgf wrote:I'm not sure what's worse. Implying that Matthaus was the best german midfielder of all time, or outright calling Ballack the second best. *sigh*

And I say this as someone biased towards Ballack as one of the last great DDR born stars, who's NT jersey I still have in my closest.

Breitner, Schuster, Netzer were not better than Matthäus.

Most World Cup matches, most World Cups played, most capped German player of all time. Maradona called him the best rival he ever had.

Dont care about his coaching career and the off the field stuff. The man is the best German midfielder of all time and the 3rd greatest German player of all time after Franz and Gerd.

Ballack was better than those mentioned(Breitner, Schuster, Netzer) as well. They are all great players, but they also played in great teams unlike Ballack.

No_20 · Post #264 » by **No_20** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:45 pm

Foye wrote:It was a damn shame that Ballack and Kahn played in an era with relatively little talent surrounding them.

Ballack carried 3 of the worst Germans teams ever to medals(2002, 2006, 2008)

Carried Leverkusen to a European Cup final as well.

cgf · Post #265 » by **cgf** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:22 pm

You should go get some old Netzer matches and some old Matthaus matches. After watching them play you can re-assess your position and correct your mistake. Matthaus playing until he was a billion doesn't change the fact that at no point in his career was he near the level Netzer had reached. Just like Brett Favre doesn't get pushed above Elway, Unitas or Montana just because he never actually retired. Nor is Martin Brodeur pushed over Roy, Hasek, Hall, Dryden, just for his longevity; Gordie Howie doesn't get put above Gretzky or Orr; and Emmitt Smith doesn't get ranked over Barry, Payton or Big Jim Brown.

Longevity is great and deserves a lot of respect, but longevity doesn't push a guy over someone who was clearly better on the pitch/field/ice unless that period of superior play was very short, like if we were debating Matthaus v Sammer or Emmitt Smith v Terrell Davis. There Lothar's longevity would be a factor because Sammer's knees meant that he wasn't better than Lothar for very long, and didn't last at Lothar's level. Unfortunately for Matthaus, Sammer isn't the only guy he has to surpass to claim the title of germany's best mid.

Netzer was on another level and was, if not the very best player we've ever had, one of the 4 best who all have strong claims to the GGOAT crown (Netzer, Beckenbauer, Mueller and Rummenigge). And he's not the only mid between Lothar and the honor you're trying to bestow on him.

cgf · Post #266 » by **cgf** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:23 pm

Foye wrote:It was a damn shame that Ballack and Kahn played in an era with relatively little talent surrounding them.

Psh, we all know that the white brazilian was the real star of that side; not Kahn, Ballack, Frings, Lahm, or Klose...

DD12 · Post #267 » by **DD12** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:09 pm

Are you talking about Michael Ballack? Dude was an okay player. You guys made him Like a God

El Turco · Post #268 » by **El Turco** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:41 am

No_20 wrote:Most World Cup matches, most World Cups played, most capped German player of all time.

and none of those matter when discussing historical players. different eras have different match frequency, not to mention some players choose to retire earlier even if they can still play.

Det the Threat · Post #269 » by **Det the Threat** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:10 am

cgf wrote:
Foye wrote:It was a damn shame that Ballack and Kahn played in an era with relatively little talent surrounding them.

Psh, we all know that the white brazilian was the real star of that side; not Kahn, Ballack, Frings, Lahm, or Klose...

Pretty much. Schnix(Bernd Schneider) was just great and absolutely underrated during his whole career.
The guy had all the abilities and created so much for others, it was just brilliant.

BTW: Matthäus was a great player and leader who pushed himself and others to great results. Though, he was a guy that did most of his stuff thanks to his will and power. Netzer on the other hand was just way more talented and most of the stuff just came so easy to him.
That's also one of the reasons he didn't play more for the NT(and had to give his spot to Overrath), cause they played more like Bayern's style of play which was more controlled and organized compared to the wild style of the Foals.

As far as Ballack goes. He's also in that Matthäus category of squeezing everything out of his talents and becoming a top player because of that.
On the other hand there was a guy called Sebastian Deisler who had more talent in his right big toe then Ballack had in his whole body but he couldn't show it enough thanks to his body not being made for professional football and with him breaking down mentally because of it.

Also three of the four guys I'm talking about here have had their breakthrough in professional football for Borussia Moenchengladbach. Just another reminder of how much influence that club from the lower rhine has had on german football.

cgf · Post #270 » by **cgf** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:29 pm

Holy **** is Deisler a name I haven't heard in eons...I still remember how excited Hertha fans were about him finally getting past his injuries and joining Marcelinho in creating.

No_20 · Post #271 » by **No_20** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:04 pm

Say what do you want about Bayern and Hoeneß, but you have to say they really handled the Deisler situation really classy.

cgf · Post #272 » by **cgf** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:45 pm

Thinking about Hector starting for our NT makes it kinda really suck that the two best LBs in the world both play in the BuLi and represent the Swiss and Austrians internationally. We should be allowed to loan one of them for the euros if their NT doesn't qualify...I'm looking at you Austria, would be nice of you to do us a solid for a change...

Also why does Loew hate gladbach and Jantschke-in-particular? Nevermind that Kruse would be a better poldi than poldi because he's a lot better on the pitch and a more colorful character off of it, which is Poldi's only purpose for this team, PR. But Jantschke taking over for Lahm at RB is the most obvious decision a NT manager has ever had to make, especially with Jung's quiet first season at FC VW, yet Jogi continues to refuse to make it. Even if Lahm only retired so he didn't have to play in qualifiers, Jogi can't possibly be planning on just handing it to Itter or continuing to play without FBs past 2016, can he? Not even the nose-picker is that dumb, right?

At least Kramer belonging to Leverkusen got Jogi to forgive him for playing for gladbach...

As a side note I really hope Maxi Arnold forces his way into the NT one day and whoever's in charge when that happens has the foresight to play him as a LB. That kid could be spectacular at that spot if someone ever tries him there after he's done learning the 8.

No_20 · Post #273 » by **No_20** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:03 am

Football on RTL today.

König and Lehmann innit.

GM Wotsup · Post #274 » by **GM Wotsup** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:09 pm

I liked the 3 youngsters Australia played upfront, Leckie, Troisi & Burns. Leckie plays Bunde 2 and has had a reasonable season. Troisi belongs to Juventus while Burns is back in Australia after a few years in Greece with AEK as a kid. I think all 3 could play Bundesliga.

Det the Threat · Post #275 » by **Det the Threat** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:33 pm

Starting XI at Georgia.

---------------------------Götze-------------------------------

--Reus--------------------Özil--------------------Müller------

-------------------Kroos--------Schweinsteiger--------------

-Hector----------Hummels-----Boateng--------------Rudy-

----------------------------Neuer------------------------------

Those fullbacks aren't anything special and Sebastian Rudy at RB has got to be a joke.
But hey, Tony Jantschke could never play the position like the Hopp player... :lol:

Maex · Post #276 » by **Maex** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:42 am

I hope some good fullbacks will evolve until European Cup. The set of center backs is maybe the best one in the world. The Boateng & Hummel partnership is naughty. Than you have Badstuber who fully recovered could be back to be one of the outstanding CBs. After that you have a couple of talents (Knoche, Mustafi, Rüdiger, Ginter) and quite solid players like Höwedes and Mertesacker.

Pretty please give us fitting FBs :pray:

Boateng (click to load):

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Captain_Obvious · Post #277 » by **Captain_Obvious** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:56 am

Just insane by Boateng (a really weak pass though). I guess we need to think outside the box for FBs. Can't believe this plethora of DMs cannot at least bring forward one decent FB on right: Gundogan/Schweinsteiger/Khedira/Benders/Kroos/Kramer. OK, maybe not slow Kroos, but Kroos-like crosses from a FB would be insane. I'd like to try Gundogan at least.

Post #278 » by **Shaazzam** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:08 pm

Thanks for posting the clip. When I was watching the game I was kind of like, "Holy crap, I think he just backheeled that interception into a 20 yard pass. Naah, he couldn't have."

cgf · Post #279 » by **cgf** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:06 pm

We have RBs, Jogi just doesn't call Jantschke or Jung up because he's an idiot. It's LB were there's nothing...assuming nobody ever thinks to try Maxi Arnold at LB, and Dudziak doesn't put in the work to develop to that level.

Foye · Post #280 » by **Foye** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:16 pm

Boateng is just an absolute beast. It is about time he gets the credit he deserves after all these years of being criticized by the media for random reasons.