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Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must step up or step down

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Post#21 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:45 pm by phrazbit

sunsfan88 wrote:
phrazbit wrote:
Jodi wrote:Piston fan here, I come in peace...What would it take to get Beasley?? I know he just signed with the Suns this summer, but is there any chance he'll become available during the deadline??


Michael Beasley and one of the Lakers 1sts for a conditional 2nd round pick.

And trust me... the Pistons will be getting screwed.

Thank god your not the GM :lol:


If I was the GM we wouldnt have signed his worthless ass in the first place. All Beasley is going to do for the next several years is cost the Suns cap space and wins. From a competitive stand point the Suns would be better off waiving him tomorrow and eating his entire salary.
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Post#22 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:42 pm by Moochthemonkey

GrantHill wrote:Beasley is one of the worst players on the Phoenix Suns in a long time. Can't remember someone having more negative impact on a team than him. Terrible.


Beasley thus far has basically been a more talented, but lazier Hakim Warrick. The difference being Warrick played with Nash and was basically a 9th-11th man while Beasley is a starter and doesnt play with Nash.
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Post#23 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:16 pm by EB2

Moochthemonkey wrote:
GrantHill wrote:Beasley is one of the worst players on the Phoenix Suns in a long time. Can't remember someone having more negative impact on a team than him. Terrible.


Beasley thus far has basically been a more talented, but lazier Hakim Warrick. The difference being Warrick played with Nash and was basically a 9th-11th man while Beasley is a starter and doesnt play with Nash.

I was about to bring up Warrick too. :lol:
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Post#24 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:41 am by Long Time Sun

Beasley is helping us in the draft....but you know what???? we are only ten games into the season....he can be brilliant...he may find his way....the effort definitely needs to pick up and his defense is often non-existent....I cringe when he shoots but I am working hard to be patient and we can, since we are not planning on competing for a championship this year.

Dudley is starting to find his offensive groove...he'll be fine...
Pazienza....pazienza...pazienza....and before you know it, we're celebrating in "Suns City" baby....
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Post#25 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:45 am by Long Time Sun

Beas is beginning to penetrate more...now he just needs to take it up strong when he does and get hit so he can be a WARRICK!
Pazienza....pazienza...pazienza....and before you know it, we're celebrating in "Suns City" baby....
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Post#26 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:19 am by EB2

After that amazing 6-8 start by Beasley, he didn't hit another shot and looked completely disinterested on defense in the 2nd half. I hope to eat tons of crow on Beasley, but it really seems like you can't teach an old dog new tricks. :(
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Post#27 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:22 am by Klomp

Saw this on Twitter

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Beasley's shot chart
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Post#28 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:37 am by ATTL

The Beas Knees wrote:
Jodi wrote:
:rofl2: :rofl2: The Pistons could probably work something out if all we need to offer is Budweiser, Sour Cream & Onion chips, injury prone Maggette, or a 2nd rounder...

I'll take your damn garbage if you take Beasley from us.


Regretting the name choice?
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Post#29 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:29 am by RunDogGun

Amaretotheline wrote:
The Beas Knees wrote:I'll take your damn garbage if you take Beasley from us.


Regretting the name choice?


Are you? :D
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Post#30 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:47 am by DragicTime85

Dudley is pissing me off this season so far missing a ton of open 3's. I'm getting its a mental thing right now and he doesn't believe in himself. But if Duds doesn't step up within next 5 games please bench him and put someone else that can produce in the starting lineup. Keep Beasley as a starter for now and hopefully he gets better as games go on.
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Post#31 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:51 am by EB2

Amaretotheline wrote:
The Beas Knees wrote:
Jodi wrote:
:rofl2: :rofl2: The Pistons could probably work something out if all we need to offer is Budweiser, Sour Cream & Onion chips, injury prone Maggette, or a 2nd rounder...

I'll take your damn garbage if you take Beasley from us.


Regretting the name choice?

Yep. :lol:
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Post#32 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:38 am by rsavaj

Klomp wrote:Saw this on Twitter

Image

Beasley's shot chart


47/146 are long 2s(the worst shot in the NBA).

That's 1/3 of his offense.

Unfortunately, that's pretty consistent with his entire career. Dude does not like contact.
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Post#33 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:57 am by DragicTime85

I'm not liking those mid range jumpers by the Suns. Either go strong inside or try hitting some 3's. Others years we had Hill, J-Rich, Amare and they connected on those mid range jumpers and were consistent but this isn't the same players so it hurts our chances of making those shots.
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Post#34 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:59 am by DRK

phrazbit wrote:I just dont get how you could not have patience with Dudley but preach that Beasley deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Dudley has been a good player here for the last few years and recovered from a slow start last year. While Beasley has been an awful player for his entire career. Even when he manages to "get his" on offense, it comes at the expense of his own teams offensive flow. And he might as well not run back on defense because at least then his team would know they are 4 on 5 instead of getting caught off guard by Beasley's disappearing act.

Beasley is a bad NBA player. Period. He has never been good, he would have to fundamentally change both on offense and on defense just for him to become usable, because right now every minute he plays he dramatically decreases his teams chances of victory.

Minnesota tried hard to trade Beasley, found no takers. Most of the league knows what he is and any half decent front office wouldnt even take him on a minimum deal. His lazy stupid play is a disease. I know it wouldnt happen but the Suns would literally be better of waiving him tomorrow and eating his entire contract. At least then they are paying him to stay home rather than paying him to make the Suns awful and unwatchable.



I dont how you can not have patience with Beasley, but preach that Dudley gets the benefit of the doubt.

How old is Michael Beasley? Twenty Three. Three years younger than Goran Dragic. Think about it.

Three. Years. Younger.

When Dragic was 23 years old, we drafted him, and he ended up riding the pine for his rookie season, with many obniouxious posters over at ASFN calling him "Tragic." (Yes I may only have been a early-teenager at the time, but I still remember the idiots over at ASFN)

But looking at our very own Goran Dragic, we see how much a player can change. We've allowed Goran Dragic three years of patience and nurturing in the NBA to get to where he is right now, a sure fire starter and a borderline star. But some of us aren't even giving Michael Beasley ten games to acquaint himself with our new system, new team, new coaching staff, and new mentality.

Do you remember how badly Jason Richardson played for us when he got traded here? It took him almost a whole season to acquaint himself.

Saying that Beasley has "never been a good NBA player" is stretching it. You have to be at least a decent NBA player to earn a starting job, and at least a "good NBA player" if you can average 19.2 points per game. Beasley is a good NBA player. In fact, he is a very good NBA player, with the potential of being a star in this league. Yes he has his faults, but the problem is, people are writing him off too early, and not giving him time to get over these faults and improved his game.

Remember guys. Twenty three. At twenty three, Wesley Johnson was a rookie.

Before Beasley came to the Suns, he was known as a ball stopper. But the Michael Beasley I have seen this season, is anything but. He has shown to me, and to many others, that he's completely changed his game, and is actually a very willing and skilled passer. Thats a big tick in the "prove dem haterz wrong" box for Beasley, and has shown he has the work ethic to improve his game

Right now, it is obvious that he isnt shooting well. But history suggests that it's just a slump, and will get out of it soon. The problem is, many people seem to believe a shooting slump warrants "trading him for a second rounder." Knee jerk??


Onto why I do not preach the same patience with Jared Dudley. Do you remember our 2009/20 Playoff run? Yes? Good.

Jared Dudley was a key contributor to that wonderful team. His hustle, grit, and determination, along with his beautiful three-point shot earned him the nickname "junkyard dog." Then things changed. Dudley went from being the guy off the bench, into being our permanent starter.

It's as if to him, being a starter elevates him up the heirachy. He stopped hustling. He has stopped playing good defence. And he's focused on driving to the rim more. Yes. Jared Dudley. The most un-athletic starting shooting guard in the league, has worked on attacking the basket. What a big waste of time that is.

Jared Dudley has not only lost my respect. But he has also lost his identity. He has lost the identity of the dirt-working, hustle maniac player he used to be. He has moved away from focusing on splashing the three ball, and worked more on isolations. He's moved away from leading by example as a dirt-working hustler, to a prima-donna "I'm too good to be diving on the floor and scrapping for rebounds" starter.

What Dudley has done, is that he's ruined his own game. The game which everyone respect him for. He's basically ruined himself, because if I was running thsi team right now, Dudley wouldn't get even ten minutes of playing time based on this production.
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Post#35 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:27 pm by phrazbit

You can score 19.2 points per game and still be a very very bad player if you are among the league leaders in shot attempts and you have no care for how the forcing of one players offense effects the teams offense as a whole... and thats Beasley. His 19.2 points per game season came on a team that went 17-65 and Beasley shot significantly more than Kevin Love... despite averaging far less points. And the guy has never earned a starting job, he has been handed them, then eventually demoted to the bench or traded away for nothing.

Beasley is an absolutely awful player. And he is not comparable to Dragic as a rookie because Dragic was... a rookie! Beasley has already logged a TON of minutes as an NBA player. Its extremely rare that a guy goes 4 years + in the league receiving big minutes and then suddenly becomes a good player after having been awful the previous 4 years.

Another reason to doubt that Beasley has any hope of development is that the guy is lazy and has an awful basketball IQ. Its very difficult to improve those types of players.

And again, dont let his PPG fool you. During Beasley's career he has been an absolutely awful player on BOTH ends of the court. He is inefficient on offense and dramatically hurts his teams offensive flow as a whole with his ball-stopping iso game. And he is so abysmal defensively that his supposed offensive prowess is totally negated. Just watch him and him alone on D sometimes. Beasley frequently gets totally lost and ends up defending no one, he also regularly is very slow back in transition, causing mismatches for his teammates.

And trading him for a 2nd rounder is not knee jerk. The guy has negative trade value, he had it the instant he signed his contract. The Wolves desperately shopped Beasley last year and couldnt get anything for him... because most of the league is already clued into how wretched Beasley is as an NBA player. The fact that his only other supposed suitor this offseason was the laughable Charlotte Bobcats should tell you a lot about Beasley's total lack of value as a trade piece. Two years ago on a much more cap friendly contract the Miami Heat traded Beasley away for nothing but a couple 2nd round picks, since that time Beasley's value has dramatically decreased. The Suns would be lucky if they could find a way to give him away. But the most likely scenario is that he will continue to cost us wins up until he inevitably gets either bench or waived.
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Post#36 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:18 pm by Ulquiorra

phrazbit wrote:You can score 19.2 points per game and still be a very very bad player if you are among the league leaders in shot attempts and you have no care for how the forcing of one players offense effects the teams offense as a whole... and thats Beasley. His 19.2 points per game season came on a team that went 17-65 and Beasley shot significantly more than Kevin Love... despite averaging far less points. And the guy has never earned a starting job, he has been handed them, then eventually demoted to the bench or traded away for nothing.

Beasley is an absolutely awful player. And he is not comparable to Dragic as a rookie because Dragic was... a rookie! Beasley has already logged a TON of minutes as an NBA player. Its extremely rare that a guy goes 4 years + in the league receiving big minutes and then suddenly becomes a good player after having been awful the previous 4 years.

Another reason to doubt that Beasley has any hope of development is that the guy is lazy and has an awful basketball IQ. Its very difficult to improve those types of players.

And again, dont let his PPG fool you. During Beasley's career he has been an absolutely awful player on BOTH ends of the court. He is inefficient on offense and dramatically hurts his teams offensive flow as a whole with his ball-stopping iso game. And he is so abysmal defensively that his supposed offensive prowess is totally negated. Just watch him and him alone on D sometimes. Beasley frequently gets totally lost and ends up defending no one, he also regularly is very slow back in transition, causing mismatches for his teammates.

And trading him for a 2nd rounder is not knee jerk. The guy has negative trade value, he had it the instant he signed his contract. The Wolves desperately shopped Beasley last year and couldnt get anything for him... because most of the league is already clued into how wretched Beasley is as an NBA player. The fact that his only other supposed suitor this offseason was the laughable Charlotte Bobcats should tell you a lot about Beasley's total lack of value as a trade piece. Two years ago on a much more cap friendly contract the Miami Heat traded Beasley away for nothing but a couple 2nd round picks, since that time Beasley's value has dramatically decreased. The Suns would be lucky if they could find a way to give him away. But the most likely scenario is that he will continue to cost us wins up until he inevitably gets either bench or waived.


No, he's not an awful player. Awful players dont stick to the Nba more than 2-3 years, and certainly not starting in it. And awful players are not recognized by the league as big talents but with psychological issues that stop them from showing it.

He doesn't disrupt the offensive flow of our team. Most times he either passes the ball (and looking good doing it) or takes the open shot immediately (again, not bad shots like previous years, they're good shots that are not fallin yet). He even drives to the basket more which is one of his strengths, he should do it a lot more!

Lazy and no work ethic? Totally not true. He's been praised by many for his work ethic and the hours he spents in the gym. He's working to improve believe it or not. Sure, he's not hustling like PJ, he looks disinterested at times, but he's not lazy.

Defense is his biggest issue, correct. He often seem confused in D, loses his man after the screens, contests the shot too late. But his 1on1 defense has been very good several times. So i have faith in our coaching stuff to guide him through the systems and teach him team defense. He has the physical attributes. (keep in mind that if he played in his natural position he wouldn't have to chase these perimeter guys all over the court, he would just have to rebound well and not get too overpowered in the paint).

Miami shopped him cuz it needed INSTANT cap space for LeBron and Bosh.
Minessota shopped him becuz of a longjam in the forward spots. He actually did pretty well the first season until he got injured.
He didn't attract other teams becuz Phoenix was the 1st place he visited and he agreed with everything and felt wanted, didn't have to search any further.

So stop searching for a bunch of crap to accuse him of because you don't have the patience to wait at least one season to see how he bonds with the new team, system, enviroment etc., and how he develops. 23 IS young, no matter how many years he's been in the league, at 23 most are still trouble-minded and immature. He could figure it all out one of these years, and yeah it would make a big difference.
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Post#37 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:26 pm by lilfishi22

I've called Dragic, Tragic in his first season and even in his 2nd season, but he's shown improvement year after year. Beasley, on the other hand, had one very good (albeit inefficient) season and then leveled out at a few notches above mediocre for the rest of his carer. It's his 5th season in the NBA and he still doesn't get it. He doesn't get how he can be good in this league and instead has continued to do what he's always done. Charles Barkley doesn't often say anything of any credibility but I definitely believe in his comment that young NBA players should know what their game is by their 3rd season. Beasley has basically figured out that, he can shoot long 2's at a mediocre clip, not defend or rebound and still get paid.

This issue with him being a "starting-caliber" player is that, he hasn't earned his starting spots. He's become a starter because he still has "potential" to be good. The teams he's been on have been terrible and he pretty much got the starting gig by default. Look at who's he's beaten to get the starting job with the Heat and Wolves? James Jones, Dorrell Wright, Wesley Johnson, Martell Webster? None of these guys are starters.

He's a more willing passer and I give him props for that. But all he's done is shown that at times, he'll make a smart play. But what about the other 95% of his game when he's chucking long shots, letting defenders blow by him, not making the defensive rotation and not boxing our for rebounds?

From what I hear, he's always had a pretty good work ethic, but we've yet to see the fruits of his labor. In the end, it may just come down to his extremely low bball IQ. He's straight up, doesn't get the game.
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Post#38 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:39 pm by phrazbit

Ulquiorra wrote:
No, he's not an awful player. Awful players dont stick to the Nba more than 2-3 years, and certainly not starting in it. And awful players are not recognized by the league as big talents but with psychological issues that stop them from showing it.

He doesn't disrupt the offensive flow of our team. Most times he either passes the ball (and looking good doing it) or takes the open shot immediately (again, not bad shots like previous years, they're good shots that are not fallin yet). He even drives to the basket more which is one of his strengths, he should do it a lot more!

Lazy and no work ethic? Totally not true. He's been praised by many for his work ethic and the hours he spents in the gym. He's working to improve believe it or not. Sure, he's not hustling like PJ, he looks disinterested at times, but he's not lazy.

Defense is his biggest issue, correct. He often seem confused in D, loses his man after the screens, contests the shot too late. But his 1on1 defense has been very good several times. So i have faith in our coaching stuff to guide him through the systems and teach him team defense. He has the physical attributes. (keep in mind that if he played in his natural position he wouldn't have to chase these perimeter guys all over the court, he would just have to rebound well and not get too overpowered in the paint).

Miami shopped him cuz it needed INSTANT cap space for LeBron and Bosh.
Minessota shopped him becuz of a longjam in the forward spots. He actually did pretty well the first season until he got injured.
He didn't attract other teams becuz Phoenix was the 1st place he visited and he agreed with everything and felt wanted, didn't have to search any further.

So stop searching for a bunch of crap to accuse him of because you don't have the patience to wait at least one season to see how he bonds with the new team, system, enviroment etc., and how he develops. 23 IS young, no matter how many years he's been in the league, at 23 most are still trouble-minded and immature. He could figure it all out one of these years, and yeah it would make a big difference.


I said he was lazy and stupid. Lazy in that he displays no hustle, he frequently dogs it in transition and virtually never shows any urgency. And stupid because he has no basketball IQ. I think both of those terms are extremely accurate ways to describe Beasley. And both are symptoms of players who will likely never improve.

Miami did need space, but it wasnt just for their big 3. They prioritized signing Mike Miller over keeping Beasley, same with Haslem. And even though they were quick to move him, a trade of 2nd rounders in return is nothing but a salary dump, because its the best they could get... because there is very little interest in Michael Beasley. And Minnesota was trying to trade him because they regularly played better without him and even though they had a lot of forwards it still does not explain why there was ZERO interest from other teams in taking Beasley off their hands, despite them blatantly shopping him for months.

And if you think he is taking smart shots then you are watching something different than the rest of the world. 20 foot jumpers with a man on him is not a smart shot... even when he goes at the lane he does not go to the rim, instead he avoids contact and takes an awful running one hander, its a dumb shot. It does not matter if he is taking it closer to the hoop than normal, its still a shot with very little hope of success.

I dont have to search for stuff to accuse him of. His entire career speaks to how bad he has been. Guys with his draft hype get several second chances no matter how awful they are... just look at Kwame Brown. Beasley has been a disaster as a player, he isnt good, he isnt even average, the dude is a bad NBA player. The fact that the Suns are a much much better team this season when they insert PJ Tucker for Beasley speaks volumes about how much of a negative impact Beasley has on this team.
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Post#39 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:41 pm by Ulquiorra

Problem is, he takes two contested shot the whole game and you all are Beasly chuckin the whole time, Beasley low IQ, Beasley DIE etc. His problem so far is not his offense, he had some off nights yeah, but he had some nights with 15+ pts and 5+ ast without taking too many shots or TOs. His problem is his defense. My opinion is we need to assign him a personal coach that works with him the whole time, i believe too that his BB IQ is what's holding him off.

I'm not saying he's good or that he plays well, I've already said his overall impact so far is negative. I just can't stand the whole board bashing him like he's worse than the 13th guy on the wizards. 90% doesn't have the patience to even wait half a season and jumps in prejudiced conclusions. Give the guy a break, he's 10 games in on a new team.
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Post#40 Re: Michael Beasley and Jared Dudley must ste
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:53 pm by phrazbit

Ulquiorra wrote:Problem is, he takes two contested shot the whole game and you all are Beasly chuckin the whole time, Beasley low IQ, Beasley DIE etc. His problem so far is not his offense, he had some off nights yeah, but he had some nights with 15+ pts and 5+ ast without taking too many shots or TOs. His problem is his defense. My opinion is we need to assign him a personal coach that works with him the whole time, i believe too that his BB IQ is what's holding him off.

I'm not saying he's good or that he plays well, I've already said his overall impact so far is negative. I just can't stand the whole board bashing him like he's worse than the 13th guy on the wizards. 90% doesn't have the patience to even wait half a season and jumps in prejudiced conclusions. Give the guy a break, he's 10 games in on a new team.


Thats simply not true...

He has had a total of 2 games in which he scored more points than he did take shots... and one of those games was 16 points on 15 shots which is a pretty lousy ratio on its own. For the year he is averaging 13.3 points on 14.8 shots per game. That is an abysmal level of shooting efficiency.

You're right in that he has been awful on defense, but the guy has also been horrible on offense.

I am killing him right now because everyone, especially the "experts" in our front office should have seen this coming. It was an awful signing that never should have taken place. You dont give multiyear contracts to bad players on the hope that their entire career has been a fluke.
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