Game 82: Suns @ Kings

[NaturalBuns]

That montage video shown at the end summed up the suns season.
When dragic laughed when he read 16-66

[thamadkant]

Eddie Johnson hit the nail on the head as usual.

When Archie gets that outside shot to fall and gains a bit of confidence...it's over.

I know it was garbage time, but the skills are there. He can get to the rim just as well as Bledsoe. Between Dragic, Bledsoe, and Goodwin, we are set at guard for quite some time. We just need to work on our 3/4/5. Especially the 4/5.

Goodwin as 6th man combo guard next season is my ideal situation.
Green, Marcus Morris and Tucker split the SF minutes and a bit of SG for Green.

Morris twins are fine as backup SF/PF but would love to upgrade them for a defensive / rebounding PF.
If Morris are kept..
Then I hope Len and Plumlee improve their rebounding...

The PF / C spots need to be cleaned out and integrated more...

Goodwin with a jump shot is a star level guard... Add in work ethic and competitiveness .. He could be anything he wants to be... His aggressiveness and attack of the ring is already star-player trait... Just need to bait the defenses out so he can have more space to drive.

[Revived]

QUOTABLE: "The more I play, the more I get comfortable. I feel like I could do things like this every night."
--Phoenix's Archie Goodwin on his big night

Sounds like he wishes he got more playing time this season.

Then again, who doesn't.

Not to worry young fella, hopefully you will be a key player off the bench next season.

[thamadkant]

QUOTABLE: "The more I play, the more I get comfortable. I feel like I could do things like this every night."
--Phoenix's Archie Goodwin on his big night

Sounds like he wishes he got more playing time this season.

Then again, who doesn't.

Not to worry young fella, hopefully you will be a key player off the bench next season.

Confidence is almost as important as talent.... It's that simple.


Decent/Ok players with high confidence over achieve and do well..

No talent but high confidence they're everywhere lol

Talented but no confidence, they hold back, they don't act out their skills and they under achieve and don't develop,..


Hence stars have self assurance... Even Tim Duncan he just doesn't verbally show it.

[grumpysaddle]

I'd actually like to see the team basically stay intact. If you can get a star without giving anything but a couple picks up, and they fit the system, you do it.

All of these players, for the most part, were playing their first big minutes over the course of a season. If no moves were made, and everyone was retained for next year, I'd be totally okay with it. I think teams like the Spurs are so successful year in and year out because they keep their players for really long stints. This Suns team was already full of chemistry... They're young enough to play together for the next 4 or 5 seasons, at which point, most of them will be either at the peak of their primes, or at just entering. Imagine this Suns team with 4 more seasons of chemistry between them.

I'd let Ish go, and try to steal Patty Mills for the backup PG role. See how the rookies progress over the summer, and start giving them a more substantial role. I guess after some time to reflect, I'd be okay with the Suns just staying put. Maybe use their last pick in the 1st round for someone to stash in a Euroleague, and maybe trade the top two picks to move up a few spots, if a player is available that McD has his eyes on.

[Revived]

Len is so pale I literally just had to adjust my tv...

Guess he's not taking advantage of the Arizona sun:

[Musli]

I hope someone posts the highlights of Archie Goodwin's performance.

Here you go
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHrE55vcmZo[/youtube]

[RunDogGun]

I'd actually like to see the team basically stay intact. If you can get a star without giving anything but a couple picks up, and they fit the system, you do it.

All of these players, for the most part, were playing their first big minutes over the course of a season. If no moves were made, and everyone was retained for next year, I'd be totally okay with it. I think teams like the Spurs are so successful year in and year out because they keep their players for really long stints. This Suns team was already full of chemistry... They're young enough to play together for the next 4 or 5 seasons, at which point, most of them will be either at the peak of their primes, or at just entering. Imagine this Suns team with 4 more seasons of chemistry between them.

I'd let Ish go, and try to steal Patty Mills for the backup PG role. See how the rookies progress over the summer, and start giving them a more substantial role. I guess after some time to reflect, I'd be okay with the Suns just staying put. Maybe use their last pick in the 1st round for someone to stash in a Euroleague, and maybe trade the top two picks to move up a few spots, if a player is available that McD has his eyes on.

I wouldn't mind staying somewhat pat. We could draft a point guard with one of our picks, if we were to let Ish go. Overall, except for his shooting, I liked Ish and his effort. I don't know if we could get Patty from the Spurs, especially if they go deep into the playoffs. It would be great if Goodwin could get his handles down.

Technically, we could let Xmas, Randolph, Ish, and LB go, and have enough room to keep all three of our first rounders, stash or trade our second rounder, and then have another roster spot from Okafor, to sign a FA.

[grumpysaddle]

I wouldn't mind staying somewhat pat. We could draft a point guard with one of our picks, if we were to let Ish go. Overall, except for his shooting, I liked Ish and his effort. I don't know if we could get Patty from the Spurs, especially if they go deep into the playoffs. It would be great if Goodwin could get his handles down.

Technically, we could let Xmas, Randolph, Ish, and LB go, and have enough room to keep all three of our first rounders, stash or trade our second rounder, and then have another roster spot from Okafor, to sign a FA.

The problem of Ish not being able to shoot is a major one. I wasn't even sure he was going to make most layups when he put them up. San Antonio exposed the problem of playing Ish pretty clearly. He was basically entirely ignored on the offensive end in the last meeting (except if he got into the lane, then they quickly adjusted on him). It puts the team at such a disadvantage having him on the floor. He shot 42% from the floor, which is higher than I thought it would be, but most of those were layups that he made. He shot FOUR percent from 3, and only 56% from the FT line. That is just awful shooting. While he does hustle, and is super quick, it's not enough to overcome being probably the worst guard in the NBA at getting the ball in the basket.

I'd like to see the Suns retain Shavlik Randolph. He showed he can make a difference in games by his nose for the ball off the boards, and general intelligence on positioning on defense. At worst he'd be a cheap end of bench guy. I also wouldn't mind keeping Barbs around if for nothing else than to be a veteran presence with spot minutes when needed. I'd like to see Goodwin develop a ton over the summer and come out swinging next season, but Barbs would be good to have in case something happened.

[RunDogGun]

I wouldn't mind staying somewhat pat. We could draft a point guard with one of our picks, if we were to let Ish go. Overall, except for his shooting, I liked Ish and his effort. I don't know if we could get Patty from the Spurs, especially if they go deep into the playoffs. It would be great if Goodwin could get his handles down.

Technically, we could let Xmas, Randolph, Ish, and LB go, and have enough room to keep all three of our first rounders, stash or trade our second rounder, and then have another roster spot from Okafor, to sign a FA.

The problem of Ish not being able to shoot is a major one. I wasn't even sure he was going to make most layups when he put them up. San Antonio exposed the problem of playing Ish pretty clearly. He was basically entirely ignored on the offensive end in the last meeting (except if he got into the lane, then they quickly adjusted on him). It puts the team at such a disadvantage having him on the floor. He shot 42% from the floor, which is higher than I thought it would be, but most of those were layups that he made. He shot FOUR percent from 3, and only 56% from the FT line. That is just awful shooting. While he does hustle, and is super quick, it's not enough to overcome being probably the worst guard in the NBA at getting the ball in the basket.

I'd like to see the Suns retain Shavlik Randolph. He showed he can make a difference in games by his nose for the ball off the boards, and general intelligence on positioning on defense. At worst he'd be a cheap end of bench guy. I also wouldn't mind keeping Barbs around if for nothing else than to be a veteran presence with spot minutes when needed. I'd like to see Goodwin develop a ton over the summer and come out swinging next season, but Barbs would be good to have in case something happened.

One game is tough to asses Ish, because some of the games, he shot really well, even from the 10-12 foot range, but I do see what you are saying, and I saw the problem a long time ago. As for Shav, I liked his effort, but would be just as happy using a rookie in that bench slo, or seek out Lou. I like LB a lot. Great kid, and really seems to love playing ball, but I'm totally fine with giving Goodwin, and/or a rookie to take those minutes.

What I want from the draft (currently we have three firsts and one second), if we draft all picks, would be a strong shooting wing player, who isn't a liability on defense, a decent PF, and a point guard with some size. After that, I wouldn't mind if we could snag another sf.

[TASTIC]

Nice find Musli - And 1 for that puppy.

Goodwin needs to stop taking 3s. 54% on 2s, just 5-36 from deep (14%). Slash young fella, slash.

I can see him being a Stuckey type combo guard - a guy who might top out at 18-4-5 levels. Not sold he's the re-incarnation of Eddie Jones like I hoped but the dude is only 19! I'll give him a good 3-4 years for sure...

He really doesn't compare all that bad to rookie Kobe and T-Mac. (no lofty expectations, I promise!). He gets murdered by them both from deep but easily has the higher 2pt fg% and also similar FT per -36 rate as T-Mac in terms of getting to the line. Lower TO rate than Kobe, better rebounder and similar D stats for per-36 as well.

He MUST get minutes over the summer and he needs to be in that gym 3-4hrs a day working on ball handling, free throws and his outside shot.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y3=1998

[Saberestar]

Why only 16 minutes for Len?

Very simple...he was playing horrible.

[MathiasPW]

I hope someone posts the highlights of Archie Goodwin's performance.

http://on.nba.com/1pcvDFN

Watch it...it's worth it.

[thamadkant]

Nice find Musli - And 1 for that puppy.

Goodwin needs to stop taking 3s. 54% on 2s, just 5-36 from deep (14%). Slash young fella, slash.

I can see him being a Stuckey type combo guard - a guy who might top out at 18-4-5 levels. Not sold he's the re-incarnation of Eddie Jones like I hoped but the dude is only 19! I'll give him a good 3-4 years for sure...

He really doesn't compare all that bad to rookie Kobe and T-Mac. (no lofty expectations, I promise!). He gets murdered by them both from deep but easily has the higher 2pt fg% and also similar FT per -36 rate as T-Mac in terms of getting to the line. Lower TO rate than Kobe, better rebounder and similar D stats for per-36 as well.

He MUST get minutes over the summer and he needs to be in that gym 3-4hrs a day working on ball handling, free throws and his outside shot.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y3=1998

He needs to take 3s to bring defenses towards him.
Not only that, he needs to have a decent jump shot to have something to fall on.

Eddie Johnson said it best...
Goodwin is getting by due to teams not scouting him or focusing on him... If they do... They just let him shoot and he'd struggle.

As a 19 year old, there is nothing wrong with experimenting and developing his shot... Percentages of his 3pters are abysmal but that's fine for where he is... He has room to go up and he can only go up by practicing as improving his shot.


I don't think he is a Stuckey type at all...
I'm surprise you lowered your projection of him after scoring his season high.

Goodwin with a jump shot and a bigger body would be a very good shooting guard/combo guard.

I still think he can be Sprewell / poor man's Wade hybrid.

[thamadkant]

Why only 16 minutes for Len?

Very simple...he was playing horrible.

Len is still so jittery on court... If he could calm down and move more purposely as opposed to moving all panicky and jittery he'd be much more effective.

Can't deny he can rebound and alter shots... Just need to calm down and move better overal.

[gaspar]

I wouldn't mind staying somewhat pat. We could draft a point guard with one of our picks, if we were to let Ish go. Overall, except for his shooting, I liked Ish and his effort. I don't know if we could get Patty from the Spurs, especially if they go deep into the playoffs. It would be great if Goodwin could get his handles down.

Technically, we could let Xmas, Randolph, Ish, and LB go, and have enough room to keep all three of our first rounders, stash or trade our second rounder, and then have another roster spot from Okafor, to sign a FA.

The problem of Ish not being able to shoot is a major one. I wasn't even sure he was going to make most layups when he put them up. San Antonio exposed the problem of playing Ish pretty clearly. He was basically entirely ignored on the offensive end in the last meeting (except if he got into the lane, then they quickly adjusted on him). It puts the team at such a disadvantage having him on the floor. He shot 42% from the floor, which is higher than I thought it would be, but most of those were layups that he made. He shot FOUR percent from 3, and only 56% from the FT line. That is just awful shooting. While he does hustle, and is super quick, it's not enough to overcome being probably the worst guard in the NBA at getting the ball in the basket.

I'd like to see the Suns retain Shavlik Randolph. He showed he can make a difference in games by his nose for the ball off the boards, and general intelligence on positioning on defense. At worst he'd be a cheap end of bench guy. I also wouldn't mind keeping Barbs around if for nothing else than to be a veteran presence with spot minutes when needed. I'd like to see Goodwin develop a ton over the summer and come out swinging next season, but Barbs would be good to have in case something happened.

Ish vastly improved in the 2nd half of the season. In 36 games in February-March-April he shot 49.3% from the floor, post All-Star break he's had a better NetRtg than Dragic(!). He was 2nd on the team in DefRtg and 10th in the NBA amongst point guards in DRPM. I'd much rather keep Ish than Barbosa or Shavlik.

[garrick]

point guards like Ish are a dime a dozen. The one thing he has is speed but I think it wouldn't be hard to find a 3rd string FA point guard or give a shot to an undrafted point guard.