The TJ Warren Thread!

[Zelaznyrules]

Read on Twitter

Way too emo for me. Shut up and play some basketball.

He's been cleared to talk, he hasn't been cleared to play basketball. I'm not trying to take a cheap shot here but honestly, I'd say your comment sounds far more "emo" than his does. His comment is actually upbeat as far as I can tell.

[GlenRiceARoni]

RIP GIRLFRIEND!!! DOES THIS MEAN HE'S COMING BACK

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

[Saberestar]

Warren was limited to three-on-three, half-court play and remains out for Sunday’s home game against New Orleans. Saturday’s session marked the first time that Warren played with contact since he left a Nov. 7 game feeling ill and was hospitalized for testing. He was diagnosed later with an unspecified minor head injury and gradually has eased back into activity.

“T.J. looked solid,” Suns coach Earl Watson said. “He played well. You can tell his timing’s not back yet. It’ll come with time. He needs to get game experience in order to get that back.

“He’s not cleared to play games yet. Right now, the first thing and foremost is for him to get into practice and get some type of competition in half-court, if not full-court.”

The Suns returned to Phoenix at about 3 a.m. Saturday so the staff decided not to have a full practice.
The Suns (7-16) are 3-7 since Warren went out. He was leading the team in points per game (20.0) and steals per game (2.1) before going 2 for 11 from the field on Nov. 16 at Denver and leaving the Nov. 18 Indiana game in the first quarter.

“It’s big to have him back in practice,” Watson said. “He’s a part of our team. We can’t miss anyone in order for us to do something special. He was arguably our most consistent player until he got injured, so it’s important to have him back.”

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/12/10/phoenix-suns-tj-warren-takes-1st-contact-not-cleared-play/95277842/

[LukasBMW]

Did you see the look on his face when he was on the bench tonight? He wanted so badly to be out there.

TJ is a baller. He loves loves loves the game of basketball. We're lucky to have him.

He and Booker are both studs and seem to have great attitudes and worth ethic. Wouldn't trade either of them considering we get to keep them for the next 6+ years as long as we max them out (and they both will deserve it).

[thamadkant]

How could a "Minor" Head injury lead to a month off Basketball.

Its either Not Minor... Or Minor but other reasons kept him out.

[Saberestar]

I am gonna make a prediction....Warren will play the next game at Oklahoma.
He has played amazing games there and that would bring him confidence and thinks and he hates Westbrook (he trash talk to him and that is weird for Warren ).

Hopefully I am right.

[Krush32]

I miss TJ

[OGBAH]

Tj's twitter... what the hell does that mean?
https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyWarrenJr?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Qwigglez]

Tj's twitter... what the hell does that mean?
https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyWarrenJr?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Just googled it. Lyrics to J Cole's song Too Deep For the Intro.

[OGBAH]

Tj's twitter... what the hell does that mean?
https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyWarrenJr?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Just googled it. Lyrics to J Cole's song Too Deep For the Intro.

Thank god I thought he was getting world peace crazy on us

[Saberestar]

T.J. Warren is back after missing 13 games because of a minor head injury. The 6-foot-8 forward scored two points in 14 minutes at Oklahoma City and was held scoreless, missing all five shots, in 10 minutes at Minnesota.

"He has to find his rhythm,'' Watson said. "... At OKC, he couldn’t find his rhythm to get shots up. Against Minnesota, he took shots that he normally makes (but) he missed. (In Tuesday's practice), he made those shots."
Warren started at a high level, averaging 20 points over the season's first 11 games. When healthy, he gives the Suns size and length on the wing, which is an NBA necessity. Moving forward, Watson said how much Warren plays is up to Warren.

"How he plays is how he goes,'' Watson said. "There’s no set minutes. His effectiveness on both ends of the court will determine his playing time."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/12/20/suns-earl-watson-we-have-get-toughness/95670852/

OK, so we set the bar high for Warren but Tucker and Knight can make the ridiculous out there and get consistent playing time ALWAYS? I just don't understand that.

He is out of rhythm because he was injured, he just need to stay on the court and feel confidence again. Reinsert him on the starting lineup and give him the touches that he had before his injury.

[PackSuns]

T.J. Warren is back after missing 13 games because of a minor head injury. The 6-foot-8 forward scored two points in 14 minutes at Oklahoma City and was held scoreless, missing all five shots, in 10 minutes at Minnesota.

"He has to find his rhythm,'' Watson said. "... At OKC, he couldn’t find his rhythm to get shots up. Against Minnesota, he took shots that he normally makes (but) he missed. (In Tuesday's practice), he made those shots."
Warren started at a high level, averaging 20 points over the season's first 11 games. When healthy, he gives the Suns size and length on the wing, which is an NBA necessity. Moving forward, Watson said how much Warren plays is up to Warren.

"How he plays is how he goes,'' Watson said. "There’s no set minutes. His effectiveness on both ends of the court will determine his playing time."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/12/20/suns-earl-watson-we-have-get-toughness/95670852/

OK, so we set the bar high for Warren but Tucker and Knight can make the ridiculous out there and get consistent playing time ALWAYS? I just don't understand that.

He is out of rhythm because he was injured, he just need to stay on the court and feel confidence again. Reinsert him on the starting lineup and give him the touches that he had before his injury.

Once again it makes me wonder who is pulling the strings. I don't think Watson would be granted that liberty as a rookie HC. The Suns haven't changed how they manage their players even though they changed their coach. I don't believe in too many coincidences. Meanwhile we play a bunch of bricklayers with ZERO recourse. We have players that play zero defense and are allegedly saviors of our program?? Man, watching the Tim Duncan ceremony a few days back showed the world how to run an organization.

[LacosteM]

I've been trying to find a player that could be compared to Warren and the closest thing I could find is Tobias Harris. Looking at their per/36 numbers, they are very similar. Warren is a more efficient scorer, but Harris eclipses him in TS% because of the higher FTr. Harris is also a better rebounder and a slightly better passer, while Warren gets more steals and commits fewer turnovers. It's also worth noticing that Warren appears to be improving at more steadier rate, whereas it looks Harris has quite stagnated in last 3 years. There's only 1 year differential between those two, so I think it will be interesting to monitor and compare their development.

http://bkref.com/tiny/m1Gdg

[bwgood77]

I don not demand wins but:

1. I want to see a young team improve. They are regressing.
2. I want to see young stars developing. Booker has regressed big time, Bender is not getting minutes. Len is our best center (yes) and not starting. Warren is progressing though.

I gave Watson the benefit of the doubt, but I am not seeing what I want from his team.

So no. Not yet at least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Based on the statistics (as a starter), Booker has not really regressed from last season to this season. However, he has not really progressed, either; see some of the recent posts in the "Devin Booker" thread.

Bender has been receiving more minutes lately (not last night). However, while Warren enjoyed a good game last night and has progressed in some skill areas and to some extent on defense, his field goal percentage, two-point field goal percentage, and True Shooting Percentage have all plummeted, turning him from an efficient scorer to an inefficient one as he has become a 15-points per game player. His assists and assists-to-turnover ratio have not improved, either.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/warretj01.html

T.J. Warren is a natural scorer—not a natural "go-to" type of scorer or a natural shooter or a natural all-around player, but a natural scorer. If he is barely posting a .500 True Shooting Percentage, he is not going to provide much value.

I think the problem with Warren has been in large part to his injury, and the effects that had on his game before and after he sat. I don't know if you can look at where his TS% was a a snapshot in time, like 10 or 11 games into the season, but I thought he came out well.

I guess the biggest dilemma with Warren is going to be whether or not he can get back to that long range shooting % of 40% from last year (on low volume) and to start out this year. The increased # of 3s seem to really impact his TS% because it isn't his strength.

So if he doesn't become an adequate 3 pt shooter, are you ok with having him focus on a midrange game and just doing what he does best, and perhaps being a 6th man type of scorer or make sure he only plays in lineups with 4 3 pt shooters (perhaps in time with two of Dudley/Bender/Chriss) playing the 4/5 spots. Maybe stagger Warren with Len to some extent.

I guess somewhat more troubling, is the drop off in his 2pt fg%, but perhaps this also comes down to him being focused on more 3s, and when those are misses, are take him out of his game, or get into his head, they may impact how well he shoots from other areas on the floor.

[GMATCallahan]

I think the problem with Warren has been in large part to his injury, and the effects that had on his game before and after he sat. I don't know if you can look at where his TS% was a a snapshot in time, like 10 or 11 games into the season, but I thought he came out well.

His True Shooting Percentage before the injury was .517.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/warretj01/gamelog-advanced/2017/#88-100-sum:pgl_advanced

That figure is much better than the .466 that he has since shown (and which will rise, I am sure), but it is still pretty inefficient, especially for a guy who is a scorer first and foremost and offers marginal contributions in other areas. The .517 mark is also down substantially from the .550 that he averaged over his first two seasons.

I guess the biggest dilemma with Warren is going to be whether or not he can get back to that long range shooting % of 40% from last year (on low volume) and to start out this year. The increased # of 3s seem to really impact his TS% because it isn't his strength.

You never know, but the .400 may well have been fluky. Warren is not a natural shooter, and he attempted 1.5 threes in 47 games last year—for a total of 70 attempts. You probably need at least twice that many attempts to receive a better feel for his ability, especially for someone who is not an especially talented shooter where you can just say, "Hey, if he takes a couple steps back and practices from that range, he can bury threes, too," which is what happened with Channing Frye when he came to Phoenix without a three-point resume or (as I have discussed previously) Kevin Johnson in '96-'97, when he finished third in the NBA in three-point field goal percentage at .441 (89-202, 2.9 FGA). The difference is that those guys could really shoot, even if they had not previously attempted many threes. Warren, conversely, is much more questionable in that regard.

Cedric Ceballos, like Warren a scoring small forward who was not a natural jump shooter, actually shot .397 on threes in 2.5 attempts per contest over 58 games (146 total attempts) with the Lakers in '94-'95, including 10-15 three-point shooting in two games in Phoenix that year.

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1994&b=19941230&tm=PHO

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1994&b=19950415&tm=PHO

But he never shot anything like that percentage over a significant sample in any other season of his career, not even during the next two years when the three-point line remained at the shorter distance.

So if he doesn't become an adequate 3 pt shooter, are you ok with having him focus on a midrange game and just doing what he does best, and perhaps being a 6th man type of scorer or make sure he only plays in lineups with 4 3 pt shooters (perhaps in time with two of Dudley/Bender/Chriss) playing the 4/5 spots. Maybe stagger Warren with Len to some extent.

If he cannot hit threes at a solid percentage, Warren can still be effective even as a starting small forward in a traditional lineup. At times, you will want smaller lineups with more floor spacing, especially late in games, but Warren can be dangerous off the ball as a cutter and especially a runner in the open floor. I hate to see someone shoot threes just for the sake of shooting threes. If you are not hitting them, do not waste shots on them and instead do what you do best to maximize your efficiency. In the NBA, players off the ball (even shooters) used to keep defenders occupied through movement more than spacing. This factor made pick-and-rolls and post play more intricate and sometimes complex (like driving on stick rather than automatic), but it also created more diversity in the game, so that there was a role for certain players beyond standing in a corner.

At times, you will want more spacing and perimeter shooting regardless, but those times will usually be in the fourth quarter. So when the Suns won the most games in the NBA in '92-'93, Ceballos would often start (unless Richard Dumas, a better shooter yet not a three-point shooter, was starting), but come crunch time, Phoenix would play Danny Ainge and Dan Majerle simultaneously to create more floor spacing and perimeter shooting.

I guess somewhat more troubling, is the drop off in his 2pt fg%, but perhaps this also comes down to him being focused on more 3s, and when those are misses, are take him out of his game, or get into his head, they may impact how well he shoots from other areas on the floor.

The decline in two-point field goal percentage probably reflects Warren shooting more two-point jumpers—more outside two-point jumpers—and also more self-created shots. The question regarding his efficiency may be how efficient he can be on runners and floaters in traffic or half-court situations. If he can hit those at a high percentage, the outside jumpers (two-pointers or three-pointers) become less vital.

[OGBAH]

http://arizonasports.com/story/999856/suns-t-j-warren-starting-get-legs-back/

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

http://arizonasports.com/story/999856/suns-t-j-warren-starting-get-legs-back/

From where I sit in the front row, the most disappointing aspect of TJ's play is not his shooting or even his astounding lack of production on the glass. It's his intensity. He's like the opposite of Russell Westbrook. Passive and floating on offense. I really thought he was capable of playing at a higher level. Perhaps there are circumstances beyond our knowledge, but if there are no physical limitations at play here, one has to wonder whether Earl is failing to tap into TJ's potential. Like Alex, it appears TJ has a long ways to go mentally.

[Saberestar]

http://arizonasports.com/story/999856/suns-t-j-warren-starting-get-legs-back/

From where I sit in the front row, the most disappointing aspect of TJ's play is not his shooting or even his astounding lack of production on the glass. It's his intensity. He's like the opposite of Russell Westbrook. Passive and floating on offense. I really thought he was capable of playing at a higher level. Perhaps there are circumstances beyond our knowledge, but if there are no physical limitations at play here, one has to wonder whether Earl is failing to tap into TJ's potential. Like Alex, it appears TJ has a long ways to go mentally.

I agree.

He was all around the floor before his injury, agressive on defense and fighting screens really well.
On offense he was sometimes in the corner (when the set played asked for that) but he was active all the time looking for offensive rebounds and making smart cuts to the basket.

With the ball in his hands he was taking easy decisions and making quick moves....now he plays like on slow motion.

It is so frustrating to watch him because we do not know if it is a mental problem or a physical one.

He is clearly not the same player right now....his motor was great, hopefully we can see that motor again before the season ends.

[sleepyvato]

Warren is starting to look like an average player that won't do much in the NBA, sad.

[LukasBMW]

Warren looked like the next KD early on in the season. He was our best player.

I agree 100% that he has not been right since the head injury. He seems to have a good head on his shoulder, seems to have a great work ethic, and seems to love basketball, but it does seem like his motor just isn't the same. He's also missing a lot of shots he usually makes. He usually hits every single floater in the lane and typically is a fantastic finisher.

Hopefully he gets back into it. I still think his potential is sky high. But his injury history is already starting to add up.