Grantland: The Suns in Year 2 and the Ghost of Channing Frye

[rsavaj]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-w ... ning-frye/

Interesting take. I've had similar fears of regression and I'm anxious to see how we play this year.

[aIvin adams]

goldsberry ranked Frye as the 17th best shooter in the NBA.

here's the goldsberry-produced shot chart for Frye:

Spoiler:

(uhhh thats huge. here's a link: http://s0.wp.com/wp-content/themes/vip/ ... 412275126g )

definitely gonna miss him. but i've yet to hear a suns fan who wished that the FO had given Frye that 32M contract, sowhat can you do.

[Sun Scorched]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-windows-the-suns-in-year-2-and-the-ghost-of-channing-frye/

Interesting take. I've had similar fears of regression and I'm anxious to see how we play this year.

Fears of regression are valid. Hope for improvement is, as well.

But, while I agree that Frye was an important cog in the system, I refuse to believe he was the most important cog.

Channing Frye was assisted on 98% of his three point attempts. He connected on 37% of those. He is/was an incredibly unique player, but he was a prototypical stretch four (five in our system?) that took primarily spot up threes.

Thing is, while he did a few other things, he didn't do something that Markieff is capable of. And that's take people off the dribble. Sure, players had to respect Frye's range - but all they had to accomplish was getting the ball out of his hands out along the perimeter. If a defender races out to meet Kieff who is spotting up for the trey (which will happen this season), he's shown the ability (and willingness) to blow by defenders and make a strong move towards the rim - something Frye never did.

Can he be as efficient as Frye from range? Possibly, though not probably. Does ne need to be? I don't think so, as long as he's more dynamic offensively - which I think he most definitely is. He creates more issues offensively than Frye did, in my opinion, and solves the only knock I ever had on Channing... which was if his shot wasn't falling, he became worthless... and I've noticed a METRIC TON of Suns fans only seem to remember the good times. Frye could disappear for WEEKS, and did. I understand what the advanced stats say, but consistency is also very important.

[bwgood77]

Frye is a big loss. Not because he is better than Morris but because he is better for Dragic than Morris. I really wanted Hawes as a replacement as some know. But I know some were not high on him. Plus Hawes blocks shots and could play stretch with Dragic at 5 WITH Kieff.

I've heard some talk about the plexiglass principle, but I think the great chemistry and Hornacek learning from coaching in year two COULD help but at the same time other teams won't be caught off guard nearly as much and will know how to defend us much better.

Nothing would really surprise me though. 14th pick again or a competitive first round series....I guess I WOULD be surprised if we landed the 7th or 8th seed and were able to knock out a veteran playoff team like OKC or SA. But if we could get higher and face GS, LAC, or Portland it wouldn't surprise me. I guess there is a possibility that LAC finish with a top two seed and we matchup with them which wouldn't be bad, but if we somehow played Memphis or Houston we'd be in trouble. I think Dallas would be tough for us too simply because I hugely respect Carlisle and Dirk and how playoff tested they are.


Edit: I read that whole article thinking it was Zach Lowe. Nice to see another knowledgable basketball guy at Grantland. I think their best writers are basketball guys. I like reading Zach Lowe and apparently this guy Danny Chau for pro and Titus is hilariously awesome for college and Shane Ryan is also good for college. Simmons always has stuff that can be fun but usually also frustrating and homerish to read.

Most of their other writers either bore me, are too into themselves, think they are far funnier than they actually are, or only deal with regression instead of actual real information on things (Bill Barnwell).

One of their best writers though, and he is more of a big research and usually writes a good long piece, is Jonathan Abrams. He is REALLY good. His articles are usually long, and sometimes the subjects don't sound like the would be interesting, but if you take the time to dive in they are usually quite fascinating (although I admit I don't on some of them just because the subject doesn't interest me or I don't have the time, even though I'm 95% sure I'd love it).

[Christine-In-AZ]

There's no doubt Frye's absence will be felt in a negative way this season, but considering his financial demands, his age, the Suns prospectus (Suns are aiming for '16 and forward) ...letting him walk is right.

The Suns have plenty of time to find another stretch 4 with Channing Frye-like qualities before the Dragic-Bledsoe verve is over ...we've years! Sooner would be better, but Channing Frye player-type's facilatators are out there. McD will get it done.

[bwgood77]

There's no doubt Frye's absence will be felt in a negative way this season, but considering his financial demands, his age, the Suns prospectus (Suns are aiming for '16 and forward) ...letting him walk is right.

The Suns have plenty of time to find another stretch 4 with Channing Frye-like qualities before the Dragic-Bledsoe verve is over ...we've years! Sooner would be better, but Channing Frye player-type's facilatators are out there. McD will get it done.

Yes, letting him go at that price was the right move in the long term, but it will hurt in the short term. We could end up better if Bledsoe and everyone else is healthy, but we'd be even better with Frye. But long term has to be the major goal right now with the tough west.

[lilfishi22]

It's not so much that Kieff can most likely replicate Frye's 3PT shooting and add him his offensive dynamism, it's that you can't have Frye and Kieff on the floor together any more which was one of our most productive front court duos. Tolliver will need to step up big time and hit those 3's at a decent clip if we want to maximise Kieff's potential because Kieff was terrible when he was settling for long 2's and 3's two seasons ago. We need Kieff doing his damage in the mid-range and the paint while someone like Tolliver or Mook camps out at the 3.

[rsavaj]

It's not so much that Kieff can most likely replicate Frye's 3PT shooting and add him his offensive dynamism, it's that you can't have Frye and Kieff on the floor together any more which was one of our most productive front court duos. Tolliver will need to step up big time and hit those 3's at a decent clip if we want to maximise Kieff's potential because Kieff was terrible when he was settling for long 2's and 3's two seasons ago. We need Kieff doing his damage in the mid-range and the paint while someone like Tolliver or Mook camps out at the 3.

Kieff/Frye together was deadly.

Re: Frye vanishing for long stretches, that's true. But teams still had their guys stick to him, even if he was going through a cold stretch. Amin Elhassan said that other teams' scouting reports always had "DON'T LEAVE FRYE" sprinkled in multiple times. Even if the guy wasn't hitting his shots, he still had a gravitational pull that few bigs in the leagues have.

Even if his detractors are right and Frye is more myth than actual production, what matters is that opposing defenses bought into the myth, and as a result our team's production was much better with Channing on the floor.

[BurningHeart]

And considering where Channing Frye "came from".....it's amazing to know just how respected he is.

I hope we don't suffer without him.

[DRK]

And considering where Channing Frye "came from".....it's amazing to know just how respected he is.

And considering that Frye was a Bi-Annual Exception guy with his career on a downhill spiral, and had no three point range before being a Sun, I'm sure he can be easily replaced.

[Sun Scorched]

Here's my thing:

Reasons Why We Could Be Worse
Frye's Departure
Dragic's Regression

Reasons Why We Could Be Better
Bledsoe Stays Healthy
Thomas' Acquisition
Plumlee's Improvement
Len's Improvement
Tolliver's Acquisition
Drafting Warren
Drafting Ennis
Morrii Improvement

So, again, I understand the fear of regression is warranted - but when you take a step back, I think we have more things to look forward to, than things to be concerned with. Frankly, I'm more worried (simply because I fricken love the guy so much) that Dragic regresses, than Frye having left. And I know most will say that the two are correlated, but Dragic is undeniably our star and the heart that makes the whole crazy mess function.

[RaisingArizona]

I really won't miss Frye at all. Gives the Mo Bros. more time to flourish. The problem with this team is we lack a true center/inside presence. Frye didn't help in that respect. Yes, he spaced the floor but literally everyone on our team can do that as well besides Len and Plumlee.

[aIvin adams]

I really won't miss Frye at all. Gives the Mo Bros. more time to flourish. The problem with this team is we lack a true center/inside presence. Frye didn't help in that respect. Yes, he spaced the floor but literally everyone on our team can do that as well besides Len and Plumlee.

Frye could defend C's, like Len and Plumlee. it's a significant loss to our offense, however you chalk it up.

but why worry? last year if someone had said they thought the Suns could win 50 games, it would have been completely reasonable to respond "that's nearly impossible-- everyone would have to have a career year." but then everyone did if i've learned anything as a Suns fan, it's that optimism doesn't cost you a damn thing.

2015 Finals here we come!

[Wormwood74]

I will come right out and say it: we should have ponied up the dough for Frye. Players with his skill set tend to age gracefully. See: Matt Bonner. As a result, we won't win 48 games again this year.

[BurningHeart]

And considering where Channing Frye "came from".....it's amazing to know just how respected he is.

And considering that Frye was a Bi-Annual Exception guy with his career on a downhill spiral, and had no three point range before being a Sun, I'm sure he can be easily replaced.

I sure damn hope so. Go Tolliver Go!

[Miklo]

Good read, and good points made in the article - I think Chau slightly overvalues Frye though. As others have alluded to, it was more what he did for the offense than his actual talent level on any given night.

And even if we say that losing Frye will directly cost us x number of games, I would argue that we've seen where that type of offense can get us - a very exciting team that can't win a championship. If we really want to talk about what this team is lacking, it's a solid post presence. That's what we need to develop or bring in before we can compete at the highest level, I think. And that could be someone like Len, we just don't know yet. Both Morris twins could develop a reputation and help space the floor. I guess my point is that I'm not that worried about losing Frye, it's a role that can somewhat be replicated in the future - I'm more focused on how we develop the young talent that we have and building a team that will eventually be much stronger than last year's.

[Frank Lee]

It should be noted, Frye could have opted in and stayed here. Not surprised we didn't match what he was offered, considering we gave him a yr paid yoga vacation.

Just hope the shouldwouldcould Frye talk goes away as the season goes on. BTW... he's injured isn't he?

[bigfoot]

I will come right out and say it: we should have ponied up the dough for Frye. Players with his skill set tend to age gracefully. See: Matt Bonner. As a result, we won't win 48 games again this year.

I'm fine with not winning 48 ... 50+ is fine with me.

[lilfishi22]

Good read, and good points made in the article - I think Chau slightly overvalues Frye though. As others have alluded to, it was more what he did for the offense than his actual talent level on any given night.

And even if we say that losing Frye will directly cost us x number of games, I would argue that we've seen where that type of offense can get us - a very exciting team that can't win a championship. If we really want to talk about what this team is lacking, it's a solid post presence. That's what we need to develop or bring in before we can compete at the highest level, I think. And that could be someone like Len, we just don't know yet. Both Morris twins could develop a reputation and help space the floor. I guess my point is that I'm not that worried about losing Frye, it's a role that can somewhat be replicated in the future - I'm more focused on how we develop the young talent that we have and building a team that will eventually be much stronger than last year's.

It's not so much that he's so talented that he can't be replaced, it's that his unique abilities allowed guys like Goran and Morris to elevate their games. That's where we'll feel the biggest impact, not the absence his 10ppg/5rpg/.37%3pt.

Having the Morri playing 4-5 will speed up the pace but I'd be worried we'll get crushed defensively because neither has the size to match up with most opposing 4-5's.

[NaturalBuns]

This team won't miss frye.
Dragic will though

Team will probably avg more points WITHOUT frye this year with additions of Thomas/Warren and Green off bench instead of starting.

Not to mention the rebounding and defense will be better.