Suns vs. Nuggets

[JTrain]

That middle blonde again! :drool:

Ariel?

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[MathiasPW]

I think Warren is maintaining something close to 1 point per minute played since Summer League.

That is insane.

[Bulk]

Any website/link where I could check the entire game?

[rsavaj]

Yeah, I'm excited to see what Tolliver does. I think Dragic will play much better with him stretching the floor. People seem to underestimate how much Frye helped Dragic no matter how many times it is mentioned and demonstrated and Tolliver may be able to provide the same type of thing. Nobody was excited about Frye before last season but he was one part of the best pick n roll duo in the league.

Jeff Hornacek, on the effect of starting Anthony Tolliver

The first group with Anthony (Tolliver) moved the ball a little bit quicker....Anthony keeps it spread out. So, we'll continue to play with it and see what works best.

When Eric or Goran are coming off and (Tolliver's) spacing and you have a big guy down low, teams have to make decisions at what they're going to do. Are they going to give up a shot, or a lay-up. Our twos and threes are very good at getting to the basket, so it will make it tough on teams

Clear as day. Hornacek is endorsing the idea of a stretch-4, but some fans will never accept the possibility that our coach miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight know more than they do about what's best for the team.

Honestly, I don't think it was a coincidence that Goran looked "better" this game. He actually had some space to do his thing! If Tolliver continues to shoot like this, we might be best served starting Tolliver and keeping the Morrii together off the bench. I think that moves maximizes the production of the twins and our Bledsoe/Dragic duo.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I'm excited to see what Tolliver does. I think Dragic will play much better with him stretching the floor. People seem to underestimate how much Frye helped Dragic no matter how many times it is mentioned and demonstrated and Tolliver may be able to provide the same type of thing. Nobody was excited about Frye before last season but he was one part of the best pick n roll duo in the league.

Jeff Hornacek, on the effect of starting Anthony Tolliver

The first group with Anthony (Tolliver) moved the ball a little bit quicker....Anthony keeps it spread out. So, we'll continue to play with it and see what works best.

When Eric or Goran are coming off and (Tolliver's) spacing and you have a big guy down low, teams have to make decisions at what they're going to do. Are they going to give up a shot, or a lay-up. Our twos and threes are very good at getting to the basket, so it will make it tough on teams

Clear as day. Hornacek is endorsing the idea of a stretch-4, but some fans will never accept the possibility that our coach miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight know more than they do about what's best for the team.

Honestly, I don't think it was a coincidence that Goran looked "better" this game. He actually had some space to do his thing! If Tolliver continues to shoot like this, we might be best served starting Tolliver and keeping the Morrii together off the bench. I think that moves maximizes the production of the twins and our Bledsoe/Dragic duo.

Yeah, there is no real reason to start Kieff if he is GREAT off the bench with his brother. Just think of how good our bench is. ESPECIALLLY if Bledsoe and especially Goran play best with the space that Tolliver provides and he keep knocking down shots and can't be cheated off of.

[NavLDO]

TBH I feel like the only people that don't like Tucker are people that just read box scores and don't watch the games. He really is the heart of the team.

Are there Suns fans that really "don't like Tucker"? Admittedly, I've only been on this forum for about 45 days, so it's a genuine question.

Or is it that fans feel Tucker is overpaid? Because you'll have to lump me in with that group...sort of. I just feel that Tucker, being given a 3 yr contract, at an average of $5.5M per, was a little long. Would have felt a lot better with $5.5M x 2 yrs, especially with Warren and Marcus as our long term plans at SF.

But really, that's just nitpicking on my part. Because PJ actually probably outplays his contract worth.

[b-ball forever]

I'd like to see Tolliver in the 3 point contest at allstar weekend. On top of being an accurate shooter, his release and shooting mechanics are also great now. He's come a long way since the time he was getting posterized by Amare.

He's a solid defender who has a high activity level with his hustle, and can use his muscle mass to hold ground against most PF's (a strong dude despite being short for a PF). While Markieff is the better overall player who will likely get more minutes, Tolliver might be a better fit with the starters, so I don't mind him starting at all.

Hornacek will likely change the starting lineup several times during the season anyways, depending on the matchup. I bet Markieff will see quite a bit of time at center too, with Tolliver/Tucker/Warren playing PF in smallball lineups.

[Sunsdeuce]

TBH I feel like the only people that don't like Tucker are people that just read box scores and don't watch the games. He really is the heart of the team.

Are there Suns fans that really "don't like Tucker"? Admittedly, I've only been on this forum for about 45 days, so it's a genuine question.

Or is it that fans feel Tucker is overpaid? Because you'll have to lump me in with that group...sort of. I just feel that Tucker, being given a 3 yr contract, at an average of $5.5M per, was a little long. Would have felt a lot better with $5.5M x 2 yrs, especially with Warren and Marcus as our long term plans at SF.

But really, that's just nitpicking on my part. Because PJ actually probably outplays his contract worth.

Look, I have been watching basketball for a LONG time. Put it this way I was going to basketball games at the madhouse on McDowell. It's not like I'm a teenager or in my twenties. I know quality players when I see them. I feel like people that absolutely love tucker only look at the box scores. I have seen 100s of tucker type players come and go. What I am saying is that there are plenty if tucker type players in the dleague. I don't dislike tucker as a person but I know what he is. A hard working, hustle, low skill, low iq basketball player. He has a lot of bo outlaw in him but he is too small to do what Bo Outlaw did. If he was where he should be (the 8-9th player off the bench) I would be just fine.

As far as tolliver goes, in this era every team needs a stretch 4 coming off the bench. They should not be starting. The Bottomline is you have to have a quality power forward OR quality center to be a true contender. The heat players admitted they got beat this year because they got beat up in the low post area. And when the heat won their championships, bosh was playing quality power forward minutes (plus the birdman gave them a decent rebounding/shot blocking presence down low. Plus lebron is so big he can play forward and post up. The Mavs had chandler in his prime, pistons had Wallace/Wallace, spurs have/had Duncan. Shoot even the great Michael Jordan have Horace grant and Dennis rodman. The truth of the matter is you have to have a presence in the paint or you will always be a fringe playoff team.

I'm saying that we need a TRUE presence down low. Until than we are going to beat up bad teams like the lakers, nuggets, Utah, etc but we are really going to struggle against the spurs, blazers, Mavs, bulls. I will not be surprised if we have a losing record during the regular season against playoff caliber teams while having a large win percentage against sub 500 teams.

I love the suns as much as anyone but sometimes I feel like this team goes in circles. In 25+ years we have always had an all-star point guard. Shoot KJ is my top 5 suns player of all time. But we have never had an all-star center. Amare doesn't count because he is a power forward playing out of position and shaq was near retirement when we got him.

Ironically the closest we came to a championship is when we got one of the greatest power forwards of all time in Charles Barkley.

I am as excited as anyone about the upcoming season but I don't let that get in the way of reality. I respect everyone's opinion but have respect for other people's opinions.



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[Zelaznyrules]

TBH I feel like the only people that don't like Tucker are people that just read box scores and don't watch the games. He really is the heart of the team.

Are there Suns fans that really "don't like Tucker"? Admittedly, I've only been on this forum for about 45 days, so it's a genuine question.

Or is it that fans feel Tucker is overpaid? Because you'll have to lump me in with that group...sort of. I just feel that Tucker, being given a 3 yr contract, at an average of $5.5M per, was a little long. Would have felt a lot better with $5.5M x 2 yrs, especially with Warren and Marcus as our long term plans at SF.

But really, that's just nitpicking on my part. Because PJ actually probably outplays his contract worth.

Look, I have been watching basketball for a LONG time. It's not like I'm a teenager or in my twenties. I know quality players when I see them. I feel like people that absolutely love tucker only look at the box scores. I have seen 100s of tucker. Type players come and go. What I am saying is that there are plenty if tucker type players in the dleague. I don't dislike tucker as a person but I know what he is. A hard working, hustle, low skill, low iq basketball player. He has a lot of bo outlaw in him but he is too small to do what Bo Outlaw did. If he was where he should be (the 8-9th player off the bench) I would be just fine.


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I think you're claiming too much authority on this subject. Watching the game for a long time doesn't always mean that much when it comes to judging talent. Experts with far greater experience than yours often fail to reach a consensus on talent levels. I think Tucker brings a lot to the table and surrounded by the right players he could even be a starter on a championship team.

There have probably been more than a hundred NBA players that started for a team that won it all that weren't appreciably better than PJ. He's no star but he is an excellent role player and not all role players are subs. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team with a number 8 or 9 guy that was Tucker's equal and that's without giving him credit for his emotional leadership. IMO, based on my 50 plus years of watching the NBA, Tucker falls more into that 4th through 7th best player range on a very good team.

[Sunsdeuce]

Are there Suns fans that really "don't like Tucker"? Admittedly, I've only been on this forum for about 45 days, so it's a genuine question.

Or is it that fans feel Tucker is overpaid? Because you'll have to lump me in with that group...sort of. I just feel that Tucker, being given a 3 yr contract, at an average of $5.5M per, was a little long. Would have felt a lot better with $5.5M x 2 yrs, especially with Warren and Marcus as our long term plans at SF.

But really, that's just nitpicking on my part. Because PJ actually probably outplays his contract worth.

Look, I have been watching basketball for a LONG time. It's not like I'm a teenager or in my twenties. I know quality players when I see them. I feel like people that absolutely love tucker only look at the box scores. I have seen 100s of tucker. Type players come and go. What I am saying is that there are plenty if tucker type players in the dleague. I don't dislike tucker as a person but I know what he is. A hard working, hustle, low skill, low iq basketball player. He has a lot of bo outlaw in him but he is too small to do what Bo Outlaw did. If he was where he should be (the 8-9th player off the bench) I would be just fine.


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I think you're claiming too much authority on this subject. Watching the game for a long time doesn't always mean that much when it comes to judging talent. Experts with far greater experience than yours often fail to reach a consensus on talent levels. I think Tucker brings a lot to the table and surrounded by the right players he could even be a starter on a championship team.

There have probably been more than a hundred NBA players that started for a team that won it all that weren't appreciably better than PJ. He's no star but he is an excellent role player and not all role players are subs. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team with a number 8 or 9 guy that was Tucker's equal and that's without giving him credit for his emotional leadership. IMO, based on my 50 plus years of watching the NBA, Tucker falls more into that 4th through 7th best player range on a very good team.

I respectfully disagree. About tucker being a 4th thru 7th best player on a very good team.

Also same applies to you....I think you're claiming too much authority on this subject.

I respect everyone's opinion as everyone here should be respected for their opinion. And I like when people disagree. That's the way it should be. There is always three different truths to everything. So I could be 100 percent wrong as everyone here could be 100 percent wrong. We all have opinions.

Anyways if your a suns fan, I got nothing but love for ya! And if your an all arizona sports fan much more love!

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[Zelaznyrules]

Look, I have been watching basketball for a LONG time. It's not like I'm a teenager or in my twenties. I know quality players when I see them. I feel like people that absolutely love tucker only look at the box scores. I have seen 100s of tucker. Type players come and go. What I am saying is that there are plenty if tucker type players in the dleague. I don't dislike tucker as a person but I know what he is. A hard working, hustle, low skill, low iq basketball player. He has a lot of bo outlaw in him but he is too small to do what Bo Outlaw did. If he was where he should be (the 8-9th player off the bench) I would be just fine.


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I think you're claiming too much authority on this subject. Watching the game for a long time doesn't always mean that much when it comes to judging talent. Experts with far greater experience than yours often fail to reach a consensus on talent levels. I think Tucker brings a lot to the table and surrounded by the right players he could even be a starter on a championship team.

There have probably been more than a hundred NBA players that started for a team that won it all that weren't appreciably better than PJ. He's no star but he is an excellent role player and not all role players are subs. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team with a number 8 or 9 guy that was Tucker's equal and that's without giving him credit for his emotional leadership. IMO, based on my 50 plus years of watching the NBA, Tucker falls more into that 4th through 7th best player range on a very good team.

I respectfully disagree. About tucker being a 4th thru 7th best player on a very good player.

Also same applies to you....I think you're claiming too much authority on this subject.


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Nice try. I'm not claiming any expertise, I'm just playing off your claim. I don't think I'm an expert (not even close) but I think you're wrong on Tucker. IMO, if this was a balanced team with quality at the 4 and 5 spots to go along with our guards, Tucker would look a lot better to you. Yes, he seems to make at least one bone-headed decision every game, either on the break or on a putback and it is very frustrating. Usually when you have a hustle guy like Tucker you can count on him to do all the little things right and to make good decisions. PJ goes against the grain there.

If you were to track everything he did well for us and than measure it against his flaws, I really doubt he'd be the whipping boy of choice for you. One of the problems is that we are so weak at the power positions that we need PJ to play like a top 3 guy and he just doesn't have that kind of talent. But his motor, his intensity and his defense make him a special player, more than enough to offset his occasional bull in a china closet approach to the game.

[Sunsdeuce]

I respectfully disagree. About tucker being a 4th thru 7th best player on a very good player.

Also same applies to you....I think you're claiming too much authority on this subject.


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Nice try. I'm not claiming any expertise, I'm just playing off your claim. I don't think I'm an expert (not even close) but I think you're wrong on Tucker. IMO, if this was a balanced team with quality at the 4 and 5 spots to go along with our guards, Tucker would look a lot better to you. Yes, he seems to make at least one bone-headed decision every game, either on the break or on a putback and it is very frustrating. Usually when you have a hustle guy like Tucker you can count on him to do all the little things right and to make good decisions. PJ goes against the grain there.

If you were to track everything he did well for us and than measure it against his flaws, I really doubt he'd be the whipping boy of choice for you. One of the problems is that we are so weak at the power positions that we need PJ to play like a top 3 guy and he just doesn't have that kind of talent. But his motor, his intensity and his defense make him a special player, more than enough to offset his occasional bull in a china closet approach to the game.

Well, we are never going to agree on this subject and that's perfectly ok. I'm just not big on players who don't know how to take care of the ball and make sound decisions with the ball in their hands(low iq). But regardless, I got your back when it comes to the suns.

[MathiasPW]

TBH I feel like the only people that don't like Tucker are people that just read box scores and don't watch the games. He really is the heart of the team.

Are there Suns fans that really "don't like Tucker"? Admittedly, I've only been on this forum for about 45 days, so it's a genuine question.

Or is it that fans feel Tucker is overpaid? Because you'll have to lump me in with that group...sort of. I just feel that Tucker, being given a 3 yr contract, at an average of $5.5M per, was a little long. Would have felt a lot better with $5.5M x 2 yrs, especially with Warren and Marcus as our long term plans at SF.

But really, that's just nitpicking on my part. Because PJ actually probably outplays his contract worth.

Look, I have been watching basketball for a LONG time. Put it this way I was going to basketball games at the madhouse on McDowell. It's not like I'm a teenager or in my twenties. I know quality players when I see them. I feel like people that absolutely love tucker only look at the box scores. I have seen 100s of tucker type players come and go. What I am saying is that there are plenty if tucker type players in the dleague. I don't dislike tucker as a person but I know what he is. A hard working, hustle, low skill, low iq basketball player. He has a lot of bo outlaw in him but he is too small to do what Bo Outlaw did. If he was where he should be (the 8-9th player off the bench) I would be just fine.

As far as tolliver goes, in this era every team needs a stretch 4 coming off the bench. They should not be starting. The Bottomline is you have to have a quality power forward OR quality center to be a true contender. The heat players admitted they got beat this year because they got beat up in the low post area. And when the heat won their championships, bosh was playing quality power forward minutes (plus the birdman gave them a decent rebounding/shot blocking presence down low. Plus lebron is so big he can play forward and post up. The Mavs had chandler in his prime, pistons had Wallace/Wallace, spurs have/had Duncan. Shoot even the great Michael Jordan have Horace grant and Dennis rodman. The truth of the matter is you have to have a presence in the paint or you will always be a fringe playoff team.

I'm saying that we need a TRUE presence down low. Until than we are going to beat up bad teams like the lakers, nuggets, Utah, etc but we are really going to struggle against the spurs, blazers, Mavs, bulls. I will not be surprised if we have a losing record during the regular season against playoff caliber teams while having a large win percentage against sub 500 teams.

I love the suns as much as anyone but sometimes I feel like this team goes in circles. In 25+ years we have always had an all-star point guard. Shoot KJ is my top 5 suns player of all time. But we have never had an all-star center. Amare doesn't count because he is a power forward playing out of position and shaq was near retirement when we got him.

Ironically the closest we came to a championship is when we got one of the greatest power forwards of all time in Charles Barkley.

I am as excited as anyone about the upcoming season but I don't let that get in the way of reality. I respect everyone's opinion but have respect for other people's opinions.



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Have you checked our record against these teams last year? I have the impression it's a lot better than what you say, not even including the games we lost by only a handful of points.

[Sunsdeuce]

Are there Suns fans that really "don't like Tucker"? Admittedly, I've only been on this forum for about 45 days, so it's a genuine question.

Or is it that fans feel Tucker is overpaid? Because you'll have to lump me in with that group...sort of. I just feel that Tucker, being given a 3 yr contract, at an average of $5.5M per, was a little long. Would have felt a lot better with $5.5M x 2 yrs, especially with Warren and Marcus as our long term plans at SF.

But really, that's just nitpicking on my part. Because PJ actually probably outplays his contract worth.

Look, I have been watching basketball for a LONG time. Put it this way I was going to basketball games at the madhouse on McDowell. It's not like I'm a teenager or in my twenties. I know quality players when I see them. I feel like people that absolutely love tucker only look at the box scores. I have seen 100s of tucker type players come and go. What I am saying is that there are plenty if tucker type players in the dleague. I don't dislike tucker as a person but I know what he is. A hard working, hustle, low skill, low iq basketball player. He has a lot of bo outlaw in him but he is too small to do what Bo Outlaw did. If he was where he should be (the 8-9th player off the bench) I would be just fine.

As far as tolliver goes, in this era every team needs a stretch 4 coming off the bench. They should not be starting. The Bottomline is you have to have a quality power forward OR quality center to be a true contender. The heat players admitted they got beat this year because they got beat up in the low post area. And when the heat won their championships, bosh was playing quality power forward minutes (plus the birdman gave them a decent rebounding/shot blocking presence down low. Plus lebron is so big he can play forward and post up. The Mavs had chandler in his prime, pistons had Wallace/Wallace, spurs have/had Duncan. Shoot even the great Michael Jordan have Horace grant and Dennis rodman. The truth of the matter is you have to have a presence in the paint or you will always be a fringe playoff team.

I'm saying that we need a TRUE presence down low. Until than we are going to beat up bad teams like the lakers, nuggets, Utah, etc but we are really going to struggle against the spurs, blazers, Mavs, bulls. I will not be surprised if we have a losing record during the regular season against playoff caliber teams while having a large win percentage against sub 500 teams.

I love the suns as much as anyone but sometimes I feel like this team goes in circles. In 25+ years we have always had an all-star point guard. Shoot KJ is my top 5 suns player of all time. But we have never had an all-star center. Amare doesn't count because he is a power forward playing out of position and shaq was near retirement when we got him.

Ironically the closest we came to a championship is when we got one of the greatest power forwards of all time in Charles Barkley.

I am as excited as anyone about the upcoming season but I don't let that get in the way of reality. I respect everyone's opinion but have respect for other people's opinions.



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Have you checked our record against these teams last year? I have the impression it's a lot better than what you say, not even including the games we lost by only a handful of points.

You may be right. I'm not saying we are going to get destroyed (based on what the score board says). What I think is we will lose because of size difference. Again I could be wrong. I see 2007 golden state warriors written all over this team. That's all I'm saying. I think we are going to get bullied by bigger teams which was golden states biggest problem.


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[Zelaznyrules]

You may be right. I'm not saying we are going to get destroyed (based on what the score board says). What I think is we will lose because of size difference. Again I could be wrong. I see 2007 golden state warriors written all over this team. That's all I'm saying. I think we are going to get bullied by bigger teams which was golden states biggest problem.

Oh I don't think there's any doubt that we'll lose some games because of size difference. It happened last year too - Detroit, Memphis, Sacramento, Brooklyn, Chicago come to mind. I love the advantage we'll have with quickness and speed but it would be nice to have someone that could guard a real power player.

[TheMoochinator]

Sunsdeuce, I think you make some really good points, but I have a question for you.

I think we can all agree this is not a championship team, this isn't even a contender, so if that's the case, would you rather us relegate Tucker to a 8-9th man role and have Tolliver be a bit player off the bench and not be as successful as if we start them both?

Sure it might be somewhat gimmicky, but why wouldn't you try to put out the pieces in the way that has thus far shown the most success? I'd rather us make the playoffs and eventually get bounced round 1 or 2 with our gimmicky ball then miss the playoffs entirely because we want to try in fit the formula that leads to championships.

If we don't have the personnel for a contending team, why would we play like one?

[Sunsdeuce]

Sunsdeuce, I think you make some really good points, but I have a question for you.

I think we can all agree this is not a championship team, this isn't even a contender, so if that's the case, would you rather us relegate Tucker to a 8-9th man role and have Tolliver be a bit player off the bench and not be as successful as if we start them both?

Sure it might be somewhat gimmicky, but why wouldn't you try to put out the pieces in the way that has thus far shown the most success? I'd rather us make the playoffs and eventually get bounced round 1 or 2 with our gimmicky ball then miss the playoffs entirely because we want to try in fit the formula that leads to championships.

If we don't have the personnel for a contending team, why would we play like one?

To answer that, I think (just my opinion), that we would be just as successful with the Morris twins starting. Ironically Marcus puts up nearly identical numbers as pj in 10 minutes less per game. Also, it provides development for the younger guys. I mean, I think we all know tucker and tolliver are not in this teams long term plans.

Here is my fear, and I'm going to refer back to the 2007 golden state warriors. That we make the playoffs and get beat and than take more years ie the warriors to rebuild. Everyone was saying the warriors were this up and coming team.

I don't know if this comes off mean but what's the difference between not making the playoffs and getting beat in the first round of the playoffs. Basically, you only played maybe 7 more games and your now stuck with a low 20s draft pick. That's a hard choice.

I think what I am looking for is an answer to the age old question.
Are we building simply for a playoff birth or are we looking to build a contender? That's what is scratching at my brain, right now.


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[carey]

About a month ago I posted that those of you giving Tolliver under 10 minutes in your minutes projections were dead wrong and that he was going to play a lot. Several of you said that if Tolliver played a lot then we were in trouble. Do you still feel that way?

The heat players admitted they got beat this year because they got beat up in the low post area.

You're going to have to give me a couple of quotes on that because that's not why they lost at all. The series turned after game 2 when Pop put 6' 7" Boris Diaw in the starting line-up and had him operate in the post and then spread the Heat out. They basically won with small-ball. Or, you know, the opposite of what you're saying.

[Sunsdeuce]

About a month ago I posted that those of you giving Tolliver under 10 minutes in your minutes projections were dead wrong and that he was going to play a lot. Several of you said that if Tolliver played a lot then we were in trouble. Do you still feel that way?

Actually yes. Having watched last nights game(be it poor quality (firstrowsprts), tolliver did not display very good defensive instincts. Too many times he was out of position and players drive past him with ease. I know he is not an inside banger, that's just not him. But again, the rebounds, the tough ones, where you need a big boy down low and fight for them are just not going to be there , when this team needs it the most.

The heat players admitted they got beat this year because they got beat up in the low post area.

You're going to have to give me a couple of quotes on that because that's not why they lost at all. The series turned after game 2 when Pop put 6' 7" Boris Diaw in the starting line-up and had him operate in the post and then spread the Heat out. They basically won with small-ball. Or, you know, the opposite of what you're saying.

Hold on, let me try and find some quotes. I actually heard that from espn analysts.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rlins.html

"Miami can't handle big guys down low."
Barkley concurs with Grant: “I agree with him. You really think they could beat Magic Johnson's Lakers, Larry Bird's Celtics, the [Jordan-led] Bulls? Not even a chance. They made David West and Roy Hibbert looks like Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Wilt Chamberlain every game. They’ve got a little team. You can punish them down low. I would love to see some of those little guys try to guard me down low. I would get to the game at 2 in the afternoon.”

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/sports/b ... doing.html

Jun 13, 2014 - San Antonio has simply rolled over the Heat in every facet of the game, ... Duncan has controlled the paint and the Spurs have dominated the boards against the smallish Heat.

http://midwaymadness.com/2014/06/four-a ... over-heat/
Size: The Spurs size of their front court trio of Duncan, Tiago Splitter and Kawhi Leonard is a major advantage they hold over the Heat who don’t really have a strong inside presence. An effective inside presence such as Serge Ibaka whose length gave the Spurs trouble especially in games 3 and 4 is simply a factor Miami does not boast. San Antonio’s size has allowed them to average 43.2 rebounds per game compared to Miami’s 34.6 throughout the postseason. The Spurs have also averaged 9.9 offensive boards compared to 6.1 for the Heat – a significant edge that has the potential to swing the series. As seen in the Western Conference Finals, the Spurs dominated the paint in their wins — scoring over 50 points in the paint in games 1 and 2. (Both those dominating performances in the paint came in the absence of Ibaka, which proves the Spurs can thrive when not forced to contend with a strong paint presence — which Miami doesn’t have). The Spurs ability to out rebound and outscore the Heat can make a major difference in the outcome of the series.


Honestly just google spurs size advantage over heat or something to that affect.

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[jcsunsfan]

Are there Suns fans that really "don't like Tucker"? Admittedly, I've only been on this forum for about 45 days, so it's a genuine question.

Or is it that fans feel Tucker is overpaid? Because you'll have to lump me in with that group...sort of. I just feel that Tucker, being given a 3 yr contract, at an average of $5.5M per, was a little long. Would have felt a lot better with $5.5M x 2 yrs, especially with Warren and Marcus as our long term plans at SF.

But really, that's just nitpicking on my part. Because PJ actually probably outplays his contract worth.

Look, I have been watching basketball for a LONG time. It's not like I'm a teenager or in my twenties. I know quality players when I see them. I feel like people that absolutely love tucker only look at the box scores. I have seen 100s of tucker. Type players come and go. What I am saying is that there are plenty if tucker type players in the dleague. I don't dislike tucker as a person but I know what he is. A hard working, hustle, low skill, low iq basketball player. He has a lot of bo outlaw in him but he is too small to do what Bo Outlaw did. If he was where he should be (the 8-9th player off the bench) I would be just fine.


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I think you're claiming too much authority on this subject. Watching the game for a long time doesn't always mean that much when it comes to judging talent. Experts with far greater experience than yours often fail to reach a consensus on talent levels. I think Tucker brings a lot to the table and surrounded by the right players he could even be a starter on a championship team.

There have probably been more than a hundred NBA players that started for a team that won it all that weren't appreciably better than PJ. He's no star but he is an excellent role player and not all role players are subs. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team with a number 8 or 9 guy that was Tucker's equal and that's without giving him credit for his emotional leadership. IMO, based on my 50 plus years of watching the NBA, Tucker falls more into that 4th through 7th best player range on a very good team.

As long as Tucker is the most prolific rebounder on the team, he will get starter level minutes. He is also a shut down defender. Look at the tape of him defending Harden. He had 10 boards in 17 minutes last night. If Len, Plumlee, or Keef start rebounding in double digits, he might drop back to bench level minutes, but not until then.

I would love to see Warren starting. I think he has superstar potential. He plays decent D and if given 30 minutes a game, I have every confidence he would score an efficient 20. But our pf and c positions do not seem to be strong enough rebounding to allow the luxury of Warren with starter minutes at the 2.