Draft Thread: Who do you want with the 13th pick? Stanley Johnson and WCS added..change votes if you want

[thamadkant]

Sacramento Kings, if they decide to keep Cousins and try for playoffs will be a good partner for trade.

[No-Man]

With the 13th pick there are 3 options for the Suns in my mind, Kaminsky to replicate Frye role, a guy that you have missed a ton, Jakob Poeltl, high ceiling prospect a bit similar to Len in some aspects, less agile but more role player-minded, and Myles Turner, a little bit of a question mark due to his body type and athleticism, but a guy that mix both upside and a profile that could fit what you need, shooting and defense.

Turner will be my pick if he is there.
I am assuming that this guys continue 100%,

Bledsoe
Knight, Goodwin, Bullock
Tucker, Warren, Granger
Morris, Morris
Len

And that Green and Thornton are 100% out.
Those 10 guys will cost around 55,5m$, leaving about 11m$ in capspace for signing some depth, a good shooter from the bench and some veterans could be needed, I guess retaining Wright could be an option if he asks for something similar of what he is earning, 5m$ a year.

With the 44th pick I'd probably draft an international player to stash.

[NavLDO]

With the 13th pick there are 3 options for the Suns in my mind, Kaminsky to replicate Frye role, a guy that you have missed a ton, Jakob Poeltl, high ceiling prospect a bit similar to Len in some aspects, less agile but more role player-minded, and Myles Turner, a little bit of a question mark due to his body type and athleticism, but a guy that mix both upside and a profile that could fit what you need, shooting and defense.

Turner will be my pick if he is there.
I am assuming that this guys continue 100%,

Bledsoe
Knight, Goodwin, Bullock
Tucker, Warren, Granger
Morris, Morris
Len

And that Green and Thornton are 100% out.
Those 10 guys will cost around 55,5m$, leaving about 11m$ in capspace for signing some depth, a good shooter from the bench and some veterans could be needed, I guess retaining Wright could be an option if he asks for something similar of what he is earning, 5m$ a year.

With the 44th pick I'd probably draft an international player to stash.

Naw...Wright needs to be more than "could be an option." We are so devoid of solid talent at the 4/5 spots that will require the Suns to pay Wright to stay. No, he's not a starter-level talnt, but he's a great versatile option for the PF/C positions.

And how much are you factoring in for Knight? To me, there's no way McD should even entertain paying more than $12M per for his services. Everyone thinks that since we traded so much to get him that we have too pay whatever he asks, or match whatever he's offered in RFA, but I don't believe that. McD won't 'mortgage' the future just to save face, IMO.

[No-Man]

I think he is going to get at least what Bledsoe got.
IEven if someones throw the max at him, there is no way you dont match after the whole haul you gave up for him.

McDonough already mortage the future with the trade, it is what it is.

[RunDogGun]

I think he is going to get at least what Bledsoe got.
IEven if someones throw the max at him, there is no way you dont match after the whole haul you gave up for him.

McDonough already mortage the future with the trade, it is what it is.

Let's wait until we see where and who could be picked by the Laker pick, and Ennis' play in the league before we claim that he mortgaged the future.

[No-Man]

I think he is going to get at least what Bledsoe got.
IEven if someones throw the max at him, there is no way you dont match after the whole haul you gave up for him.

McDonough already mortage the future with the trade, it is what it is.

Let's wait until we see where and who could be picked by the Laker pick, and Ennis' play in the league before we claim that he mortgaged the future.

ennis and plumlee are crap, but they are things you throw to sweeten a deal that didnt need that, because only by giving up the lakers pick for a FA that you can pay this summer, you already overpaid.
if Knight doesnt re-sign, you look like real dumbasses, and he does for the max, and he doesnt live up to that contract, it will look even worse.
It is what it is at this point.
And I like the Suns and what you have going, still like the flexibility and the roster, but you didnt need to make that move.

[RunDogGun]

I think he is going to get at least what Bledsoe got.
IEven if someones throw the max at him, there is no way you dont match after the whole haul you gave up for him.

McDonough already mortage the future with the trade, it is what it is.

Let's wait until we see where and who could be picked by the Laker pick, and Ennis' play in the league before we claim that he mortgaged the future.

ennis and plumlee are crap, but they are things you throw to sweeten a deal that didnt need that, because only by giving up the lakers pick for a FA that you can pay this summer, you already overpaid.
if Knight doesnt re-sign, you look like real dumbasses, and he does for the max, and he doesnt live up to that contract, it will look even worse.
It is what it is at this point.
And I like the Suns and what you have going, still like the flexibility and the roster, but you didnt need to make that move.

Couple things to consider: Knight is a decent player, who has steadily improved over his four years in the league, and is still only 23. And at this point, we can't say we overpaid for we don't know what he gets offered as a RFA. Overall what we gave up was to have his rights, a player our FO have been scouting. If he is a player we want(ed), then not having to worry about out bidding someone might be easily worth that Laker pick.

Trades are always a risk, and I wouldn't go as far as calling the FO dumbasses for one deal that may or may not pay off.

[letsgosuns]

I think he is going to get at least what Bledsoe got.
IEven if someones throw the max at him, there is no way you dont match after the whole haul you gave up for him.

McDonough already mortage the future with the trade, it is what it is.

Mortgaged the future with the trade? What are you talking about. There is a high probability that the Lakers will get a top five pick this year. The pick is top five protected. Then the pick will be pushed back to next year where it is top three protected. By then, the Lakers will have Randle, a new rookie, and potentially two max free agents or even more. How good will the pick look then.

By the way, the Suns might have traded that pick, but they also got back three other first round picks before the trade deadline. Two picks for Dragic. A 2017 top 7 protected first round pick and a 2021 unprotected first round pick. Those are fantastic picks. Unprotected first round picks in this league are like gold. The third pick they got was in the Isaiah Thomas trade. A 2016 top 10 protected first round pick via Cleveland.

So I have no idea why you say they mortgaged the future. They have three extremely young players in Len, Goodwin, and Warren with huge potential. They have another young player in Reggie Bullock. Brandon Knight is restricted so they control his rights. Bledsoe is 25. They own the rights to Bogdan Bogdanovich who they drafted last year. He is a 22 year old 6'6" shooting guard. They also drafted Alec Brown who is a 7'1" smooth shooting power forward/center and joined their D-League affiliate after he recovered from a dislocated shoulder.

Let's take a look at all of the Suns assets:

Players:

Alex Len- 21 year old 7'1" center
Archie Goodwin- 20 year old 6'5" shooting guard
T.J. Warren- 21 year old 6'8" small forward
Reggie Bullock- 24 year old 6'7" shooting guard
Bogdan Bogdanovich- 22 year old 6'6" shooting guard
Alec Brown- 22 year old 7'1" power forward/center
Eric Bledsoe- 25 year old 6'1" point guard
Own rights to Brandon Knight- 23 year old 6'3" point guard

Draft Picks:

The Suns own 2015 lottery pick and second round pick
The Cavaliers 2016 first round pick top 10 protected
The Miami Heat 2017 first round pick top 7 protected (protected top 7 in 2017-18, unprotected in 2019)
The Miami Heat 2021 first round pick unprotected

So to recap: the Suns have either signed and/or own the rights to eight players between the ages of 20-25. They own all of their own draft picks in addition to multiple other first round picks owed to them from other teams. How again did they mortgage the future?

[jcsunsfan]

Frank Kaminsky may be a good target for us. He looks goofy as hell and people say he isn't athletic, but he has great hands and he can finish and shoot the long ball. They say Okafor isn't an elite athlete either and I'd agree.

Dirk 2.0?

I think Kaminsky's ceiling is Channing Frye 2.0. A little less athletic, but a little more skilled. That is not bad though.

[MrMiyagi]

I think he is going to get at least what Bledsoe got.
IEven if someones throw the max at him, there is no way you dont match after the whole haul you gave up for him.

McDonough already mortage the future with the trade, it is what it is.

Mortgaged the future with the trade? What are you talking about. There is a high probability that the Lakers will get a top five pick this year. The pick is top five protected. Then the pick will be pushed back to next year where it is top three protected. By then, the Lakers will have Randle, a new rookie, and potentially two max free agents or even more. How good will the pick look then.

By the way, the Suns might have traded that pick, but they also got back three other first round picks before the trade deadline. Two picks for Dragic. A 2017 top 7 protected first round pick and a 2021 unprotected first round pick. Those are fantastic picks. Unprotected first round picks in this league are like gold. The third pick they got was in the Isaiah Thomas trade. A 2016 top 10 protected first round pick via Cleveland.

So I have no idea why you say they mortgaged the future. They have three extremely young players in Len, Goodwin, and Warren with huge potential. They have another young player in Reggie Bullock. Brandon Knight is restricted so they control his rights. Bledsoe is 25. They own the rights to Bogdan Bogdanovich who they drafted last year. He is a 22 year old 6'6" shooting guard. They also drafted Alec Brown who is a 7'1" smooth shooting power forward/center and joined their D-League affiliate after he recovered from a dislocated shoulder.

Let's take a look at all of the Suns assets:

Players:

Alex Len- 21 year old 7'1" center
Archie Goodwin- 20 year old 6'5" shooting guard
T.J. Warren- 21 year old 6'8" small forward
Reggie Bullock- 24 year old 6'7" shooting guard
Bogdan Bogdanovich- 22 year old 6'6" shooting guard
Alec Brown- 22 year old 7'1" power forward/center
Eric Bledsoe- 25 year old 6'1" point guard
Own rights to Brandon Knight- 23 year old 6'3" point guard

Draft Picks:

The Suns own 2015 lottery pick and second round pick
The Cavaliers 2016 first round pick top 10 protected
The Miami Heat 2017 first round pick top 7 protected (protected top 7 in 2017-18, unprotected in 2019)
The Miami Heat 2021 first round pick unprotected

So to recap: the Suns have either signed and/or own the rights to eight players between the ages of 20-25. They own all of their own draft picks in addition to multiple other first round picks owed to them from other teams. How again did they mortgage the future?

BUT, BUT.... Tyler Ennis!

[RunDogGun]

The more I think about the Knight trade, is either they think that Goodwin just wasnt going to be a starter or just clearly not ready to be the other ball handling guard, they saw Knight as a chip to possibly trade later , or they thought they made a wrong choice in Bledsoe, but didn't really have the means to trade him.

It will be an interesting offseason. Hopefully all our guys work their butts off and all improve. There is still a lot of potential in all our players.

[tdjm]

The more I think about the Knight trade, is either they think that Goodwin just wasnt going to be a starter or just clearly not ready to be the other ball handling guard, they saw Knight as a chip to possibly trade later , or they thought they made a wrong choice in Bledsoe, but didn't really have the means to trade him.

It will be an interesting offseason. Hopefully all our guys work their butts off and all improve. There is still a lot of potential in all our players.

As far as the Knight trade goes, of the options you presented, it's a chip to trade later (and a little of option D: none of the above - diversifying assets)

First of all, just like in real life, it doesn't help you to have a million of the same asset. You diversify to manage risk.

Look at what the Suns were overloaded on at the deadline - prospects, and draft picks. Now, examine some of the recent big player trades.

First, the Harden trade - HOU sent out Martin (good player), Lamb (prospect), 2 firsts, and a second.

Now, the Melo trade - Denver got Chandler, Felton, Gallo, Mozgov, a first, and two seconds.

Notice that you can't just overload a team with picks and prospects when you're trading - you need a third type of asset, which is a good player. While I believe he's had his eye on Knight for a while, I don't believe there was anything special about Knight other than the fact that he was a RFA and he was available. If any of the other big RFAs were available for a similar package, McDonough would have been looking. We've seen this FO's MO, which is to lock in as many dudes as possible before the cap jump on good contracts (regardless of position), so they can either play at a bargain, or be trade chips (with extra value due to depressed contracts.)

Also, I'm not really fond of Knight, but the only thing of consequence we gave up for him was the Lakers pick in a soft draft. Plumlee was cool as a post defender but a total scrub as a basketball player. Ennis was by far the worst prospect on our roster, and a disappointment*. I don't like Knight very much, but I think the gamble is very neat.

*As for why I consider Ennis a disappointment, Len, Warren, and Archie all came out of college with a smattering of strengths and a major grouping of weaknesses. All of them showed their strengths at the D-League and/or at the summer league/NBA level. Archie flashed his athleticism and driving ability, Warren showed his uncanny feel for the game and excellent finishing ability, and Len displayed his mobility and defense. They also showed some improvement in areas they were lacking. Archie's shot and FT stroke are improving while he plays (marginally) more under control, Warren's defense improved throughout the year and his fitness and mobility is WAY better than projected pre-draft, and Len continues to improve on both ends at basically everything (he was a really well rounded prospect, so improvement across the board is nice). Ennis didn't really show off his strengths at any level (passing, playmaking), and his weakness (defense) looked even worse than most scouts were expecting - tough to bank on improvement on that end, given his subpar athleticism.

I think one of the interesting things about the Knight trade was the FO moving on from a guy before the rest of the league caught on that he didn't have as much potential as they hoped. After selling low on I.T., I think they secretly sold high on Ennis before his value deteriorated further.

Of course, it's hard to know if a guy is going to actually busted until at least year 3 or 4 so I could be TOTALLY off the mark here, but I doubt it.

[Skillmatic]

What about drafting Devin Booker. He can eliminate our shooting Problems. In the Second Round we can Pick a PF like Brandon Ashley. Our Rebounding could also be lift up via Free Agency.

- Draft Booker and Ashley/Dakari Johnson
- Sign Draymond Green

[SideSwipe]

Trade everything for D'angelo Russell. If that fails, trade everything else minus a little for Hezonja. BBIQ guys are what we need. Shooting too. It seems these guys have both.

[Skillmatic]

Devin Booker has both too. I really like his BBIQ. And we need BBIQ guys sooooo much.

[bwgood77]

Frank Kaminsky may be a good target for us. He looks goofy as hell and people say he isn't athletic, but he has great hands and he can finish and shoot the long ball. They say Okafor isn't an elite athlete either and I'd agree.

Dirk 2.0?

I think Kaminsky's ceiling is Channing Frye 2.0. A little less athletic, but a little more skilled. That is not bad though.

I think Utah might take him, as they really could use a big that could stretch the floor at times since they have two good rim protecting bigs in Gobert and Favors who don't have much range.

[jcsunsfan]

Frank Kaminsky may be a good target for us. He looks goofy as hell and people say he isn't athletic, but he has great hands and he can finish and shoot the long ball. They say Okafor isn't an elite athlete either and I'd agree.

Dirk 2.0?

I think Kaminsky's ceiling is Channing Frye 2.0. A little less athletic, but a little more skilled. That is not bad though.

I think Utah might take him, as they really could use a big that could stretch the floor at times since they have two good rim protecting bigs in Gobert and Favors who don't have much range.

I see Kaminsky as a great third big. He can come off the bench as a 4 or 5. He shoots, stretches the floor, has handles and passing skills and rebounds a little. There is a chance he is an underrated defender simply because the WI system discourages defensive aggressiveness to avoid foul trouble.

That was the ideal Channing Frye role too--off the bench at the 4 or 5 depending on matchups. Its also probably Markieff's ideal role although much less of a 5 and more of a 4.

[SideSwipe]

Frye never had Kaminsky's footwork inside. He is money with his dropstep reverse, also. I think an Olynyk type impact is very likely.

[ATTL]

Why is Looney falling on draft boards when no workouts and no more games are being played. He seems to have good perimeter skills and good length for a power forward.

[RunDogGun]

Why is Looney falling on draft boards when no workouts and no more games are being played. He seems to have good perimeter skills and good length for a power forward.

Its probably the name.