Should Suns keep starting lineup of Bledsoe-Tucker-Marcus-Kieff-Len or start Knight?

[Revived]

Tucker also stumped to keep the big lineup going, even when Knight comes back.

"We turned down shots to get other shots for each other," Tucker said. "Me and Marcus play so well together, a couple times I was wide open I seen him and swing it to him and he does the same. So it's just having trust in each other, playing together."

"I really like our lineup with me and Marcus (Morris) at the two and three," he said. "I don't think we lost a rebound battle against any team since we went to that lineup. We communicate better so I really like that lineup."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/ ... ce=twitter

Markieff and I believe Bledsoe also both said that they like this lineup more because it gives them much needed length defensively and others teams don't get mismatches they take advantage of.

I know we gave up a lot for Knight but still, is he better off in a 6th man type role for at least remainder of this season? I don't know if him and his agent will be happy about it since their trying to land a huge contract this summer but still, the team seems to be doing so much better. Win or loss, for the first time in a long time we don't look like a gimmick team during this stretch.

I'm not a big fan of Marcus but he's been balling since getting the start defensively and especially on the glass.

Also, we always try to post up Tucker and even that works much better when he's playing the 2 because he has a strength advantage over most SGs in the league.

Our bench has been outscored in 6 straight games so I think Knight, a premier scorer, off the bench would help greatly with that also.

I think we should go forward with this current lineup at least for the time being until it turns into a disaster or something.

Keep this lineup or return to Bledsoe-Knight-Tucker-Kieff-Len?

[tdjm]

You have to keep this lineup while it's working, and if that pisses off Knight in time for restricted free agency, that's too bad as far as I'm concerned.

First of all, Knight individually has been subpar since he got here. 37% from the field, 34% from three, posting career lows in most counting stats and advanced stats (http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... hbr03.html). More importantly, his defense has been freaking ghastly. He can't keep his guy in front of him. He was the prime culprit responsible for losing the Miami game as he got repeatedly blown past by Mario Chalmers and allowed Tyler Johnson to drop a career high on his head.

Worse still, Suns were giving him the easier matchups. Bled was drawing shooting guards like Oladipo and Wade as his matchup and leaving Knight to match up on the PG. Taking the tougher matchup is bad for Bledsoe, that job needs to go to Tucker to allow him to properly facilitate.

This is somewhat confirmed by the Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Markieff/Len lineup being -2.2 pts/100 possessions on 107 minutes played. That's really really really horrible, and it's especially horrible for your starting lineup (by comparison, Bledsoe/Tucker/Morris/Morris/Wright is +3.3 on 63 minutes and Bledsoe/Tucker/Morris/Morris/Len is +7.1 on 77 minutes).

It's not fair for Knight to come in here and get handed a starting spot. I'm sorry, but it's just not. Alex Len had to grind his way into the starting lineup from the bench, even though Plumlee in front of him was a borderline disaster. It took him 10-15 games longer than it should have to knock Plumlee out of the starting lineup. Why should a guy who has performed so poorly (Knight) get to walk in to a new team and get a guaranteed starting job? What has he done to earn it?

The guys are playing together so well because they have chemistry. Everyone except Wright, Price, and Warren was here last year and Wright has had a lot of games to acclimate, Price is inconsequential, and Warren went through training camp and summer league and d-league with Archie. Everyone else knows each other. The chemistry is obvious. Marcus was hitting Tucker right in his shooting pocket over and over last night. He set up Alex with a sick dime right where he could finish it easily. These guys know each other, they trust each other, and most importantly they are willing to battle, play hard, play gritty for each other, from the top of the rotation to the bottom.

I don't think Knight is a disaster or anything, but he needs time to acclimate. He needs to get used to his new teammates. Why not do it from the bench? When Bledsoe sits, the Suns have been atrocious at getting their offense rolling. Curry and Price were/are laughable, and Goodwin is boom or bust at the backup PG spot. The Suns NEED what Knight can bring, but if Knight wants to bring that in the starting lineup, he has to play better.

He's 23 and hasn't had a training camp with these guys. He may earn that starting job in time but I'm praying they keep it this way for now.

[bwgood77]

As I posted in the other thread...

And with Len, the twins, Tucker and Bledsoe, we suddenly become a pretty good rebounding team....and Tucker guarding 2s helps a ton. I'm not sure about who should start, but that lineup looks like it's working.

If this lineup looks that good for awhile, that trade giving up the pick looks worse. It's tough though because I still like Knight and I'm not sure you keep him if you don't start him but I'd hate to have traded the pick and Ennis for nothing if we let him walk. Ultimately you sign him and if it makes sense to trade him later you do. If you can get him to a reasonable contract, he will probably have trade value once the cap goes up or even in anticipation of the cap going up. I really don't expect them to be a big market for him.

I don't mind starting him just for the sake of it to see if he gets going early with the starters. His defense will not be as glaring if he is clicking offensively, but I might take him out pretty early, like after 4-5 minutes, and then bring in Tucker to suddenly change the defensive intensity which would be a little shocking after getting settled against Knight defensively (for the 2). Then when Bledsoe sits at say the 8-9 minute mark, you bring him back in and keep Tucker at the 2 (or Goodwin), and he plays the last few minutes if the first and the first few minutes of the second while Bledsoe sits. I don't mind if they play together some, but not all the time, and you always need to have one of them on the floor.

And with Len, the twins, Tucker and Bledsoe, we suddenly become a pretty good rebounding team....and Tucker guarding 2s helps a ton. I'm not sure about who should start, but that lineup looks like it's working.

If this lineup looks that good for awhile, that trade giving up the pick looks worse. It's tough though because I still like Knight and I'm not sure you keep him if you don't start him but I'd hate to have traded the pick and Ennis for nothing if we let him walk. Ultimately you sign him and if it makes sense to trade him later you do. If you can get him to a reasonable contract, he will probably have trade value once the cap goes up or even in anticipation of the cap going up. I really don't expect them to be a big market for him.

I don't mind starting Knight just for the sake of it to see if he gets going early with the starters. His defense will not be as glaring if he is clicking offensively, but I might take him out pretty early, like after 4-5 minutes, and then bring in Tucker to suddenly change the defensive intensity which would be a little shocking after getting settled against Knight defensively (for the 2). Then when Bledsoe sits at say the 8-9 minute mark, you bring him back in and keep Tucker at the 2 (or Goodwin), and he plays the last few minutes if the first and the first few minutes of the second while Bledsoe sits. I don't mind if they play together some, but not all the time, and you always need to have one of them on the floor.

Ultimately it comes down to whether or not you want to try and win now or develop guys for the future. Win now, you play Tucker. Develop for future, you play Knight.

I'd still probably run that lineup we started with for a large portion of the game, so who starts is just semantics.

SF88, it seems like you would rather develop for future rather than win now, so I would expect that you would rather start Knight than Tucker. But Tucker is going to create havoc defensively.

Ultimately it depends on how Marcus is doing...he is hot and cold. If he is cold, you'd rather have Knight than him...if he is hot, you want that. His assists were impressive though. You'd think there would be better ball movement with Knight in there, but Marcus did have a bunch of assists.

Ultimately I think it's too small of sample size to make an ultimate decision, and because I'd rather develop young guys for the future, I'd probably start Knight, and then bring in Tucker at about the 4 minute mark for either Marcus if he is cold, or Knight if Marcus is hot, or even if Knight is just cold....and then bring Knight back in when Bledsoe sits and let him play with the backups while some others sit.

I voted other, and I'd start the two guards, the twins and Len just to go with young guys, and let Tucker come in quickly for either Knight or Marcus, whoever is struggling more, or neither if the lineup is going gangbusters.

[Mulhollanddrive]

For this season until it stops working, definately YES.

Does that lineup have a chance at anything substantial over the course of a season, probably not, there's maybe 1 or 2 above average starters out of 5. But it should show the FO and coaches that defence, size and rebounding matters and our rebuilding should follow that prototype.

Knight is a guy that has good numbers, but his old teams would say he didn't make their team any better. We dismissed those stats when we acquired him, but evidence suggests it may be right.

[Qwigglez]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. We are winning right now and that's the most important thing. Whatever the reason is, maybe our length is bothering our opposition. We can play the passing lanes better. Who knows, maybe we win out the rest of our games, go into the playoffs on a hot streak and wreck havoc against the Warriors. We'll see what happens. I say we keep this lineup until we get blown out.

[bwgood77]

For this season until it stops working, definately YES.

Does that lineup have a chance at anything substantial over the course of a season, probably not, there's maybe 1 or 2 above average starters out of 5. But it should show the FO and coaches that defence, size and rebounding matters and our rebuilding should follow that prototype.

Knight is a guy that has good numbers, but his old teams would say he didn't make their team any better. We dismissed those stats when we acquired him, but evidence suggests it may be right.

Well the Bucks were a hell of a lot better with him than with MCW. And another thing. By all accounts, Knight has gotten better every year.

[nevetsov]

The good of the team should always trump the good of the individual. Knight's situation sucks for him now, but you give him two options:

1) Come off the bench and solidify that unit for the last ten games or so. Help us get over that hump and potentially play some playoff basketball.

2) Sit out with "injury" until we are officially eliminated from playoff contention. He's likely going to get a max offer either way so it won't affect his earning potential. If/ when we are eliminated, put Bledsoe in bubble wrap and hand Knight the last 5 or so games to showcase him for an offseason sign and trade.

[Mr Puddles]

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned about the large line-up yet is Tucker abusing other SGs in the post on offense. Playing defense in the post is on of the most tiring aspects of basketball and shooting guards are usually not used to being physically abused on defense.

I like Knight with the second unit too, as we could use some more playmaking and spot up shooting in that line-up. With two slashers (Goodwin/Warren), two shooters (Morris/Knight), and Wright's ability finish close to the basket, our second unit has the potential to become pretty versatile on offense while retaining the defensive impact of the starters. If we can draft a bruising big who can hit the boards & block shots to complement those guys - we could have a very solid 10-11 man rotation moving forward.

[Revived]

As I posted in the other thread...

And with Len, the twins, Tucker and Bledsoe, we suddenly become a pretty good rebounding team....and Tucker guarding 2s helps a ton. I'm not sure about who should start, but that lineup looks like it's working.

If this lineup looks that good for awhile, that trade giving up the pick looks worse. It's tough though because I still like Knight and I'm not sure you keep him if you don't start him but I'd hate to have traded the pick and Ennis for nothing if we let him walk. Ultimately you sign him and if it makes sense to trade him later you do. If you can get him to a reasonable contract, he will probably have trade value once the cap goes up or even in anticipation of the cap going up. I really don't expect them to be a big market for him.

I don't mind starting him just for the sake of it to see if he gets going early with the starters. His defense will not be as glaring if he is clicking offensively, but I might take him out pretty early, like after 4-5 minutes, and then bring in Tucker to suddenly change the defensive intensity which would be a little shocking after getting settled against Knight defensively (for the 2). Then when Bledsoe sits at say the 8-9 minute mark, you bring him back in and keep Tucker at the 2 (or Goodwin), and he plays the last few minutes if the first and the first few minutes of the second while Bledsoe sits. I don't mind if they play together some, but not all the time, and you always need to have one of them on the floor.

And with Len, the twins, Tucker and Bledsoe, we suddenly become a pretty good rebounding team....and Tucker guarding 2s helps a ton. I'm not sure about who should start, but that lineup looks like it's working.

If this lineup looks that good for awhile, that trade giving up the pick looks worse. It's tough though because I still like Knight and I'm not sure you keep him if you don't start him but I'd hate to have traded the pick and Ennis for nothing if we let him walk. Ultimately you sign him and if it makes sense to trade him later you do. If you can get him to a reasonable contract, he will probably have trade value once the cap goes up or even in anticipation of the cap going up. I really don't expect them to be a big market for him.

I don't mind starting Knight just for the sake of it to see if he gets going early with the starters. His defense will not be as glaring if he is clicking offensively, but I might take him out pretty early, like after 4-5 minutes, and then bring in Tucker to suddenly change the defensive intensity which would be a little shocking after getting settled against Knight defensively (for the 2). Then when Bledsoe sits at say the 8-9 minute mark, you bring him back in and keep Tucker at the 2 (or Goodwin), and he plays the last few minutes if the first and the first few minutes of the second while Bledsoe sits. I don't mind if they play together some, but not all the time, and you always need to have one of them on the floor.

Ultimately it comes down to whether or not you want to try and win now or develop guys for the future. Win now, you play Tucker. Develop for future, you play Knight.

I'd still probably run that lineup we started with for a large portion of the game, so who starts is just semantics.

SF88, it seems like you would rather develop for future rather than win now, so I would expect that you would rather start Knight than Tucker. But Tucker is going to create havoc defensively.

Ultimately it depends on how Marcus is doing...he is hot and cold. If he is cold, you'd rather have Knight than him...if he is hot, you want that. His assists were impressive though. You'd think there would be better ball movement with Knight in there, but Marcus did have a bunch of assists.

Ultimately I think it's too small of sample size to make an ultimate decision, and because I'd rather develop young guys for the future, I'd probably start Knight, and then bring in Tucker at about the 4 minute mark for either Marcus if he is cold, or Knight if Marcus is hot, or even if Knight is just cold....and then bring Knight back in when Bledsoe sits and let him play with the backups while some others sit.

I voted other, and I'd start the two guards, the twins and Len just to go with young guys, and let Tucker come in quickly for either Knight or Marcus, whoever is struggling more, or neither if the lineup is going gangbusters.

I do want to develop for the future but I have also come around to despising the dual PG small ball offense and based on comments from the players themselves, they hate it too.

Tucker at SG makes it fair for us match up wise that's why I like it.

[RunDogGun]

I really like the way the starting group is doing, but I have a hard time thinking Knight would come from the bench. So far we have a small sample size, and if we hope to retain him next season. I still want to see what he has got to give us.

We've had so much drama with players roles or positions. But if Knight is fine coming off the bench to see if we can ride out this lineup, than say keep things as they are, and slowly introduce Knight. It's unfortunate that we didn't start this lineup when first played Minny without Knight.

But man, I think Tucker has been so disrespected here in this forum. He asked to guard almost everyone, he hustle all the time again, and the team seems to be responding off that. I also really like how the team treats our super young. They cheer them on, they look for them. Look how both Marcus and Green ran out to celebrate Goodwin's dagger three. We are starting to become a team.

Also Wright was a pro about going back to the bench even after having a killer game the other night. Green has been pro as well with his role change.

[DRK]

Forget about Knight. I would rather have Goodwin take him minutes.

Small ball doesnt work, and our record and defensive effort over the last 6 games have proved that this is the best starting 5 we have.
Our defence has been absolutely tenacious, and our offensive flow will come.

Knight can be benched for all I care.

[Mr Puddles]

I really like the way the starting group is doing, but I have a hard time thinking Knight would come from the bench. So far we have a small sample size, and if we hope to retain him next season. I still want to see what he has got to give us.

We've had so much drama with players roles or positions. But if Knight is fine coming off the bench to see if we can ride out this lineup, than say keep things as they are, and slowly introduce Knight. It's unfortunate that we didn't start this lineup when first played Minny without Knight.

But man, I think Tucker has been so disrespected here in this forum. He asked to guard almost everyone, he hustle all the time again, and the team seems to be responding off that. I also really like how the team treats our super young. They cheer them on, they look for them. Look how both Marcus and Green ran out to celebrate Goodwin's dagger three. We are starting to become a team.

Also Wright was a pro about going back to the bench even after having a killer game the other night. Green has been pro as well with his role change.

The way he was celebrating Goodwin's basket the other night was awesome. He seemed the most stoked out of the bench players that Goodwin was having a good game - and Archie is the one playing Green's minutes. I'm not a fan of Green's "shoot first ask questions later" style of play, but he seems like a high character guy.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I like the line up from a philosophical pov, rather than who they are.

4 years ago none of our players were on our roster.

So in 4 years time it'll be our philosophy on whether we want size, rebounding or defence that matters more than whether a Tucker or Morris do what they do.

[Jdiddy701]

Stay with the lineup, have Knight back up Bledsoe. No more AJ Price so our leads won't vanish anymore.


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[RunDogGun]

I really like the way the starting group is doing, but I have a hard time thinking Knight would come from the bench. So far we have a small sample size, and if we hope to retain him next season. I still want to see what he has got to give us.

We've had so much drama with players roles or positions. But if Knight is fine coming off the bench to see if we can ride out this lineup, than say keep things as they are, and slowly introduce Knight. It's unfortunate that we didn't start this lineup when first played Minny without Knight.

But man, I think Tucker has been so disrespected here in this forum. He asked to guard almost everyone, he hustle all the time again, and the team seems to be responding off that. I also really like how the team treats our super young. They cheer them on, they look for them. Look how both Marcus and Green ran out to celebrate Goodwin's dagger three. We are starting to become a team.

Also Wright was a pro about going back to the bench even after having a killer game the other night. Green has been pro as well with his role change.

The way he was celebrating Goodwin's basket the other night was awesome. He seemed the most stoked out of the bench players that Goodwin was having a good game - and Archie is the one playing Green's minutes. I'm not a fan of Green's "shoot first ask questions later" style of play, but he seems like a high character guy.

Marcus was the first one off the bench, and he was waving and throwing his towel, and the first to head towards Goodwin. It her way, it was great how they reacted as a whole bench.

[RunDogGun]

Forget about Knight. I would rather have Goodwin take him minutes.

Small ball doesnt work, and our record and defensive effort over the last 6 games have proved that this is the best starting 5 we have.
Our defence has been absolutely tenacious, and our offensive flow will come.

Knight can be benched for all I care.

Our starting lineup was good when Wright was in it, and it still did well when Len took back the starting job. I guess it will depend on how the team reacts to the return of Knight. But he is a good player, and it seems silly to bench him.

Most likely he comes off the bench for just one game, unless he is totally cool with coming off the bench, if they continue to play well. Small ball worked just fine when Goran and Bledsoe played together last year, and Goran and Knight are the same height.

Oh well, no need to debate opinions, we will see how this plays out soon enough.

[lilfishi22]

I like the 2-3 combination with Tucker and Mook. Together, they are strong rebounding wings and both have range on their shots.

[lilfishi22]

Also can't believe Archie turns only 21 after two full NBA seasons under his belt and two NBA drafts.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Interesting with Knight.

We could end up doing a Thomas/Dragic to him, if he is benched.

This is where we need to figure out if are 100% for now or the future.

[kennydorglas]

Knight was finding his rhythm when he got injured... i dont think it's fair to bench him right away (would u bench dragic in the same circunstances? I already know the answer)

But now I'm more inclined to see Bledsoe and Knight playing less time together and try to find a partner for him on our bench mob.